Why are you nerfing MR items while leaving Void Staff untouched?

Agidyne··1 votes·867 views

Because itemizing against Mages isn't already hard enough.

Let me tell you.

The answer is always Banshees Veil

If you want to itemize against Magic Damage, you go for Banshees Veil

If you don't want to itemize against Magic Damage but fear certain all in enemy champions, you still go for Banshees Veil

You always go for Banshees Veil no matter what.

Spirit Visage is just an inferior version of Banshees on everyone but Mundo, Swain, Garen and a few others.

Abyssal Scepter is Abyssal Scepter, there's not much to say about it. You only pretty much buy this item when you are a solo laner and both you and the other solo laner are Magic Damage oriented. Otherwise, you might aswell buy Void staff instead.

Quicksilver Sash is only used against Warwicks and Malzahars. That's it. There's no reason to pick this item over Banshees Veil.

So let me tell you, when you want to itemize against Magic Damage, you go for item 3102. It simply is the best item as it is your saving grace in most situations.

What I don't understand is why you don't give Negatron Cloak the same treatment you are giving to the Chain Vest.

Or even better. Give us the Thornmail of Magic Damage. Literally.

Give us an item that simply overloads us with MR. It doens't need to give Health. Just 80+ MR and a useful passive. RIP FoN btw.

Any mage with a Void Staff will ignore any MR you can currently get. Itemizing against Magic Damage is useless unless you can negate and entire part of the combo, aka, have a Banshees Veil.

Now, you may say Void Staff is literally the Last Whisper of Mages. And while I understand where you are getting this idea from, it simply is not true. Why is that? Because while Last Whisper, despite allowing AD Champions to hit hard, can be countered by stacking Armor. Yes, as weird as it may sound, Armor counters Armor Pen and not the other way around. Having a Thornmail against a Last Whisper will give you 70 Armor instead of 100. You may think 30 Armor is a huge deal but after the 150 Armor mark and thornmail will leave you with 200+ Armor just for being Thornmail so yeah, 30 Armor is not a huge deal.

And while it is extremely easy to itemize against Physical Damage, Sunfire, Thornmail, Frozen Heart, Iceborn, Randuins, all great items that each fit their niche and can be bought on nearly every champion without wasting stats. Having a Thornmail against the likes of Fiora is just as good as having a Sunfire against a Riven while having a Sunfire against a Fiora and a Thornmail against a Riven may not be the best of the options. Oh, and obviously the most broken item in the game.

It becomes hard to itemize against Magic Damage. Banshees Veil far outshines all other items for the most part. Having a Banshees against Mage is way more effective than having any other item against he same Mage.

Since you will never be able to make the other existing items surpass Banshees Veil when looking at the passive, either

A) Make these items compete with Banshees Veil through Stats as opposed to the Passives

B) Give us actual meaningful choices. Item choices that will negate the Magic Pen itself. 20 MR is not enough, 30 is not enough either, nor is 40. We need something that gives us like, 80 MR to be able to fight Mages back.

C) Bring back FoN

TL:DR Giving us an easier build path does not compensate for the base stats loss on most MR items Mages are already kinda crazy when you think about it. Give us some meaningful MR choices, not 20 or 30 MR but 80 or 100 MR.

29 Comments

A Wild AP Sona4 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

BlackRaven2 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

A Wild AP Sona3 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

if lux rushs zhonyas she will still die when she is out of zhonyas same goes for sona they have 0 escape

not to mention if they were dumb enoug hto rush zhonyas they will have 0 cdr top laners get like fucking 400-450 speed and 3k+ health with max tenacity now you want them to get 200 mr too? anyone ap would become a free kill with 0 counter play

or are you trying to imply that some 1500 hp mage will be able to outrun or beate a 4k hp tank with 200 MR that they cant escape from/outrun?

you are plat for a reason

BlackRaven3 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

if lux rushs zhonyas she will still die when she is out of zhonyas same goes for sona they have 0 escape

not to mention if they were dumb enoug hto rush zhonyas they will have 0 cdr

or are you trying to imply that some 1500 mage will be able to beat a 4k hp tank with 200 MR they cant escape from/outrun?

you are plat for a reason

1- im diamond 2- u have 4 people on your team 3- the second ur zhonyas finishes, if u dont have a team next to you, u either got caught out.. or your team is dead. did you forget lux had her q and e with a shiedl? or that sona has ms boosts and slows?

A Wild AP Sona1 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

if lux rushs zhonyas she will still die when she is out of zhonyas same goes for sona they have 0 escape

not to mention if they were dumb enoug hto rush zhonyas they will have 0 cdr

or are you trying to imply that some 1500 mage will be able to beat a 4k hp tank with 200 MR they cant escape from/outrun?

you are plat for a reason

1- im diamond 2- u have 4 people on your team 3- the second ur zhonyas finishes, if u dont have a team next to you, u either got caught out.. or your team is dead. did you forget lux had her q and e with a shiedl? or that sona has ms boosts and slows?

a stun or a slow is meaningless vs a fucking 3k hp tank with max tenacity that gets unstunned/unslowed instantly after you hit them and will outrun you anyways because they have 400-450 move speed

with this item there would literally be nothing from stopping a top form just face diving past 2 turrets and killing a mid

even if they blew all their cds and ult it would do what? 15-20% of the tops hp max?

Agidyne1 votes

MR is Shit.

It doesn't negate damage against Void Staffs unless you have 200+ of with which you probably won't have because there is so few.

Having an MR item will leave you with like, 100 MR, probably less. And yet, 100 MR would only negate 50% of a Mage total Damage output. But since Void Staff exists, it leaves you with 70 MR, 70 MR is not worth sh*t as it only negates 30/40% of the damage, and this is without counting MPEN from Runes&Masteries.

MR doesn't do shit.

And how the fuck do Mages have long ass cooldowns? Seriously, Buckshot has more cooldown than most mages Abilities, and that shit is Graves Bread&Butter Ability.

And Graves won't get any CDR unless he goes for a Ghostblade and yet, it will only give him 10%.

Mages are broken. Mages.

Besides ADC, Mage is the only class that never falls off the Meta, despite there being many other champs that can clear wave just aswell as they do.

Also, Lux is purely outclassed by Xerath, and Sona, despite being Mage-ish, is still better off as Support.

So, don't use them as an example. Use Xerath, Orianna and shit like them.

A Wild AP Sona4 votes

Why should you be able to hurt them with a fucking Sona?

Serious question.

If Sona was a great damage dealer with good clear wave, she would be played mid. Not support.

If you get a Void Staff on spmeone like Ahri , their MR will go to shit, unless they are playing something like Jax or Galio.

GTFO child sona is a mage if built ap mages should do damage

Agidyne2 votes

GTFO child

Stfu, I don't play Annie

sona is a mage

If you actually go mid lane and buy nothing but damage items, then yes, Sona is a mage. And she hits quite hard too. Lich bane, Zhonyas, Sorcs, Deathcap, DFG, Void Staff.

But if 2 of your 6 items are FQC and Sightstone, then obviously you are not fucking going to kill a Triforce Jax, nor should you be able to.

Brand can burst harder than a 4 items Sona with just Void Staff and Deathcap.

if built ap mages should do damage

That's the thing

They actually do

Ahri Annie Azir Brand Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Karthus Kennen Leblanc Lissandra Lux Malzahar Morgana Orianna Ryze Swain Syndra TwistedFate Veigar Velkoz Viktor Vladimir Ziggs Zilean Zyra Xerath

BlackRaven2 votes

lol incoming ap mains to downvote and tell you how it should be hard to outplay a mage but not the other way around because "its easier for ads to take down turrets". always some bs excuse for how broken their itemization is.

BlackRaven2 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

if lux rushs zhonyas she will still die when she is out of zhonyas same goes for sona they have 0 escape

not to mention if they were dumb enoug hto rush zhonyas they will have 0 cdr

or are you trying to imply that some 1500 mage will be able to beat a 4k hp tank with 200 MR they cant escape from/outrun?

you are plat for a reason

1- im diamond 2- u have 4 people on your team 3- the second ur zhonyas finishes, if u dont have a team next to you, u either got caught out.. or your team is dead. did you forget lux had her q and e with a shiedl? or that sona has ms boosts and slows?

a stun or a slow is meaningless vs a fucking 3k hp tank with max tenacity that gets unstunned/unslowed instantly after you hit them and will outrun you anyways because they have 400-450 move speed

with this item there would literally be nothing from stopping a top form just face diving past 2 turrets and killing a mid

even if they blew all their cds and ult it would do what? 15-20% of the tops hp max?

did u forget the whole idea of ur team being on the map? why do u make me feel like u play 1v5? seriously ..

A Wild AP Sona1 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

if lux rushs zhonyas she will still die when she is out of zhonyas same goes for sona they have 0 escape

not to mention if they were dumb enoug hto rush zhonyas they will have 0 cdr

or are you trying to imply that some 1500 mage will be able to beat a 4k hp tank with 200 MR they cant escape from/outrun?

you are plat for a reason

1- im diamond 2- u have 4 people on your team 3- the second ur zhonyas finishes, if u dont have a team next to you, u either got caught out.. or your team is dead. did you forget lux had her q and e with a shiedl? or that sona has ms boosts and slows?

a stun or a slow is meaningless vs a fucking 3k hp tank with max tenacity that gets unstunned/unslowed instantly after you hit them and will outrun you anyways because they have 400-450 move speed

with this item there would literally be nothing from stopping a top form just face diving past 2 turrets and killing a mid

even if they blew all their cds and ult it would do what? 15-20% of the tops hp max?

did u forget the whole idea of ur team being on the map? why do u make me feel like u play 1v5? seriously ..

because 90% of this game usually is 1v5 because of how bad teammate are in any elo its more likely to be 3v5 because you have 1 afk and 1 0-10 power feeder

which is why the top laner is chasing you from your mid turret thats 80% hp back to your fountain while you repeatedly try to snare/slow him

BlackRaven2 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

if lux rushs zhonyas she will still die when she is out of zhonyas same goes for sona they have 0 escape

not to mention if they were dumb enoug hto rush zhonyas they will have 0 cdr

or are you trying to imply that some 1500 mage will be able to beat a 4k hp tank with 200 MR they cant escape from/outrun?

you are plat for a reason

1- im diamond 2- u have 4 people on your team 3- the second ur zhonyas finishes, if u dont have a team next to you, u either got caught out.. or your team is dead. did you forget lux had her q and e with a shiedl? or that sona has ms boosts and slows?

a stun or a slow is meaningless vs a fucking 3k hp tank with max tenacity that gets unstunned/unslowed instantly after you hit them and will outrun you anyways because they have 400-450 move speed

with this item there would literally be nothing from stopping a top form just face diving past 2 turrets and killing a mid

even if they blew all their cds and ult it would do what? 15-20% of the tops hp max?

did u forget the whole idea of ur team being on the map? why do u make me feel like u play 1v5? seriously ..

because 90% of this game usually is 1v5 because of how bad teammate are in any elo its more likely to be 3v5 because you have 1 afk and 1 0-10 power feeder

and i thought d1s werent complaining little bitches as well. athenes then zhonyas IS HOW APS STAY ALIVE AND HEALTHY THROUGHOUT THE GAME

A Wild AP Sona1 votes

worst idea NA & downvoted

MR is about 2-3x as effective as armor which is why there is less of it unlike AD mages have long ass cooldowns and automatically die when you stand within 200 radius of them

all it takes is 1 mr item to shut down a mage's damage entirely if they are someone like lux or sona and if they have no mpen yet

ap mids basically cant even kill tops so why the hell do you deserve to be more tanky?

long ass cooldowns that are sedated by another broken item that is zhonyas. stfu and admit how stupid these nerfs are.

if lux rushs zhonyas she will still die when she is out of zhonyas same goes for sona they have 0 escape

not to mention if they were dumb enoug hto rush zhonyas they will have 0 cdr

or are you trying to imply that some 1500 mage will be able to beat a 4k hp tank with 200 MR they cant escape from/outrun?

you are plat for a reason

1- im diamond 2- u have 4 people on your team 3- the second ur zhonyas finishes, if u dont have a team next to you, u either got caught out.. or your team is dead. did you forget lux had her q and e with a shiedl? or that sona has ms boosts and slows?

a stun or a slow is meaningless vs a fucking 3k hp tank with max tenacity that gets unstunned/unslowed instantly after you hit them and will outrun you anyways because they have 400-450 move speed

with this item there would literally be nothing from stopping a top form just face diving past 2 turrets and killing a mid

even if they blew all their cds and ult it would do what? 15-20% of the tops hp max?

did u forget the whole idea of ur team being on the map? why do u make me feel like u play 1v5? seriously ..

because 90% of this game usually is 1v5 because of how bad teammate are in any elo its more likely to be 3v5 because you have 1 afk and 1 0-10 power feeder

and i thought d1s werent complaining little bitches as well. athenes then zhonyas IS HOW APS STAY ALIVE AND HEALTHY THROUGHOUT THE GAME

plz no

I build pure ap support sona and even with lich bane/dfg/frost queen I still cant fucking hurt top lane/jungler

Agidyne1 votes

Why should you be able to hurt them with a fucking Sona?

Serious question.

If Sona was a great damage dealer with good clear wave, she would be played mid. Not support.

If you get a Void Staff on spmeone like Ahri , their MR will go to shit, unless they are playing something like Jax or Galio.

BlackRaven2 votes

honestly if their adc is already dealt with and the top or jungler is the prob get void instead of dfg.

EffectFX1 votes

MR items are being nerfed?

Agidyne2 votes

They literally removed Negatron Cloak and nerfed the Cowl.

Because reasons

So, if you can't buy a Banshees Veil in 1 go, you are pretty much f*cked.

We need 80+ MR items, not an easier build path to a shittier item that will pretty much leave you handicapped until you can actually complete the whole item itself.

You can no longer buy a Negatron against a LeBlanc to make yourself slightly harder to be bursted down. No, you know have to bend over and spread some vaseline because, oh boy, it's gonna hurt.

We need more options against MR, who cares about an easier build path. The only viable option against MR is item 3102 and that's about it.

EffectFX1 votes

Your reasoning is bizarre.

Huge flat MR items have and never will be a good idea.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

The QSS nerf is harsh. From 45 to 30 - really?

Agidyne1 votes

It's not about it being harsh or not

No one ever buys it anyway unless they are against a Warwick or a Malzahar.

That's it.

What's the point of building this item when you can have the godlike Banshees Veil?

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Nerfing the hell out of it won't make it more appealing though.

Duke Anax1 votes

odd, maybe its because of the champs I play but I usually find it way easier to itemise for MR than for AR.

BlackRaven1 votes

dont u have void staff because with it you can do more damage

A Wild AP Sona1 votes

dont u have void staff because with it you can do more damage

nah although void staff would be nice you run out of item slots buying hourglass for 6th item you would have to sell sightstone or frost queen to fit it in

DFG allows for 100-0ing adc/ap mid/support if they are squishy

MrSlowDie1 votes

If there's an AP item that deserve a nerf, it's DFG, I mean, who cares about an item that reduce percentage of MR while MR being nerfed :/

Agidyne1 votes

It might feel like it doesn't matter

But 4 or 5 MR before 100 MR is a huge deal.

Same thing with Armor. Except Armor items are so good stat wise that you will pretty much hit the 100 Armor mark with a Ninja Tabi on most champions.

MrSlowDie1 votes

It might feel like it doesn't matter

But 4 or 5 MR before 100 MR is a huge deal.

Same thing with Armor. Except Armor items are so good stat wise that you will pretty much hit the 100 Armor mark with a Ninja Tabi on most champions.

you make it look like void staff has flat MR, let me put math,

enemy 1 : scimitar, 30 base MR ally 1 : DFG, 100% AP ratio ally 2 : Void staff, yellow wand, 100% AP ratio

enemy 1 : 65 MR (post 4.20) ally 1 : 120 AP, 20% magic amp, 15% max health, 100% AP ratio ally 2 : 110 AP, 35% magic pen, 100% AP ratio

ally 1 hit enemy 1, (120 x 100/(100+65) x 1.2 = 87.27 + 15% max health

ally 2 hit enemy 1 110 x 100/((100+(65x0.65) = 77,19

actually to prove DFG > void doesn't need math, only logic, void 35% MR reduction, this means void scales with MR, the more enemy has MR the more harder it hit (and now ADC get more less MR thanks to scimitar nerf !!), while DFG scales with enemy HP and ally AP, this shit means it snowball hard, AND you need not wait enemy tank has 200 MR to make it worth !!

and someone has done math for Infinite edge vs LW http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/lz16lEqa-is-it-just-me-or-is-infinity-edge-better-against-high-armor-than-last-whisper?comment=0006

TL;DR LW and void meant to counter high armor and MR, not countered by high armor and MR

srsly, I don't understand plat this day

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