Mages are expected to get Zhonya's vs AD mids

arbokfister·Mar 2, 2015·84 votes·5,125 views

Why can't we expect AD mids to build vs instead of ruining entirely?

86 Comments

shortfatchodeMar 2, 201580 votes

Because then Zed can't rush damage and make LC$BigPlay$ all over the map

Malix FarwinMar 2, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Because then Zed can't rush damage and make LC$BigPlay$ all over the map

or LeeSin

ConturbatioMar 2, 201510 votes

I remember playing Zed vs Veigar in season 4, I didn't even need to build mr, just went full damage and he was getting raped so swiftly, my WQ combo takes half of his HP even when he had seekers's armguard stacked (45 armor) and I didn't have armor pen like brutalizer or last whisper.

I wonder what Veigar can do now vs Zed....

ThryaleMar 2, 201511 votes

nothing, nothing whatsoever

PaletongueMar 3, 20153 votes

I've heard he's OP at dying vs Zed

The LexerMar 2, 20155 votes

It isnt about Zed and LCSBIGPLAYS

It's about Veigar and lcssmallplays

Yes. That was a short joke

EndlessSorcererMar 2, 201544 votes

item 3155 item 3156 item 3139 item 3111

ConturbatioMar 2, 20155 votes

You don't even need banshee, QSS and merc are enough for mr + stun removal/reduction.

CopelandoMar 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

and we only have item 3157

Space BumMar 2, 20151 votes

Nothing is stopping you from buying the above items...

DownfallMar 3, 20155 votes

Yes lets buy Maw and scimitar on a Mage... heavy sarcasm

Edge of DaybreakMar 2, 201539 votes

One of these gives damage as well as defense and probably the best active in the game that cant be poked off of me with a simple spell. The other is a barrier i cannot control that offers nothing but defense stats. With how much players on these forums bitch about tank items being worthless I wonder why people keep stating QSS and Banshees every few post.

QuephaMar 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

One of these gives damage as well as defense and probably the best active in the game that cant be poked off of me with a simple spell. The other is a barrier i cannot control that offers nothing but defense stats. With how much players on these forums bitch about tank items being worthless I wonder why people keep stating QSS and Banshees every few post.

it's absurd that zhonya's is the best defensive active in the game for squishy characters while also being about 95% as effective for damage as pure damage options.

ForgiveColourMar 2, 201526 votes

Mages are expected to get Zhonya's vs every team comp

FTFY

Leti the YetiMar 2, 201521 votes

No mage is threatening to the point that AD mids have to rush QSS/merc scimitar dats why ;l

okay maybe malzahar, sometimes

Malix FarwinMar 2, 201513 votes

they typically build hexdrinker(which is cheaper btw).

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 2, 201511 votes

I must have forgotten that Banshee's gives 45 AD

NeroYamatoXMar 2, 20157 votes

I was going to post this exact comment. Hourglass and Banshee are not comparable items. Hourglass and Hexdrinker maybe.

DrCyanideMar 2, 201517 votes

item 3157 and item 3139 is what you're looking for:

Both give maximum offensive stats in their tech tree
Both give defensive stats against the other tech tree
Both have an active for getting out of tricky situations

And luckily for AD users, item 3140 has the active as well, so you don't need to get the entire thing before level 6!

1st HanarSpectreMar 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

and is what you're looking for:

Both give maximum offensive stats in their tech tree

Both give defensive stats against the other tech tree

Both have an active for getting out of tricky situations

And luckily for AD users, has the active as well, so you don't need to get the entire thing before level 6!

Not every ad wants attack speed. Plenty of them don't in fact. Also seeker's offer again, both armor and ap, while QSS offers only defensive, also seeker has cheaper part you can buy anytime. Seeker's = decent boost in AP. QSS = Only your base damage to kill someone.

SpecterVonBarenMar 2, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iRYEWzEa,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-02T04:17:38.101+0000)

Not every ad wants attack speed. Plenty of them don't in fact. Also seeker's offer again, both armor and ap, while QSS offers only defensive, also seeker has cheaper part you can buy anytime. Seeker's = decent boost in AP. QSS = Only your base damage to kill someone.

.....

Champion SkinMar 2, 20152 votes

When did Mercurial Scimitar give attack speed? It gives AD (80) not attack speed...

(however yes the Mercurial Scimitar of Twisted Tree line does give attack speed and CDR for some reason)

Auz the RipperMar 2, 20153 votes

The QSS upgrade that gives AS is called Dervish Blade item 3137

JJ H0GMar 2, 20151 votes

That ain't on SR. Most balance is done based on SR. Most bitching is done based on SR.

Auz the RipperMar 3, 20151 votes

I know It was just annoying me that people were referring to it as "Mercurial Scimitar with AS"

DeusVultMar 2, 201511 votes

item 3139 actually

Nausicäa Mar 2, 201510 votes

item 3111 Probably because most AD mid laners do get a magic resist item already?

item 3155 Isnt uncommon either particularly against hard match ups or double AP compositions.

The fact that you suggested item 3102 is the AD equivalent to item 3157 shows how utterly clueless you are.

Hard PenetratorMar 2, 20156 votes

Because whole problem was with support Veigar. Mid Veigar was more on a weak side especially with mobile jungle that can gank every 2 min.

And you know what Riot thinks about bot lane.

ThryaleMar 2, 20155 votes

then you need to ask yourself, what has happened to the game to cause support veigar to become necessary? It wasn't but 3-6 months ago that you'd be ridiculed for trying to go supp veigar.

Hard PenetratorMar 2, 20155 votes

I think we should ask ourselves why Riot lied about compensation buffs when they obviously wanted to kill him for at least couple weeks/months.

Even if they said that Veigar, like Poppy is overpowered but easy to abuse and counter for majority of the game and he will have to be changed if he start to get popular. They should say us the truth, "Sorry guys, we have to do something with him, you probably gonna hate it at start, but we will work hard to make him healthy and interesting pick".

Their way of handling situation feels childish and very unprofessional.

KazaashiMar 2, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iRYEWzEa,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2015-03-02T15:24:46.007+0000)

I think we should ask ourselves why Riot lied about compensation buffs when they obviously wanted to kill him for at least couple weeks/months.

Even if they said that Veigar, like Poppy is overpowered but easy to abuse and counter for majority of the game and he will have to be changed if he start to get popular. They should say us the truth, "Sorry guys, we have to do something with him, you probably gonna hate it at start, but we will work hard to make him healthy and interesting pick".

Their way of handling situation feels childish and very unprofessional.

Or we could, as a player base, stop expecting Riot to fix something with one Buff/Nerf. Game Balance is a tricky thing and always takes time to fix.

Hard PenetratorMar 2, 20155 votes

Rioter called it "compensation buffs", not player base. Plus wth man, lying and tricky balance are totally different things. If you can't be honest don't expect to ppl actually like and support you.

KazaashiMar 2, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iRYEWzEa,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-02T16:19:23.496+0000)

Rioter called it "compensation buffs", not player base. Plus wth man, lying and tricky balance are totally different things. If you can't be honest don't expect to ppl actually like and support you.

I don't think you understood the words I was using.

Player base means us (me, you, the people posting on the boards, etc).

Riot only lied if you have some sort of bias or expectation. Maybe you need to temper your expectations from Riot and be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day.

RetillinMar 2, 20153 votes

Wait, I'm confused here. How is "compensation" = nerf not a lie?

KazaashiMar 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wait, I'm confused here. How is "compensation" = nerf not a lie?

Because its a matter of opinion. I don't really thing Veig has been out long enough for people to fully grasp his rework. Just because people are afraid of change does not mean we should just knee jerk react to the changes Riot makes.

DivineGodKingMar 3, 20151 votes

It was a lie. Look at the ahri "compensation" Lets give her q already provides Hp regen, magic damage and true damage a speed buff also. Then this viegar shit witch i won't even go into its not even they help there favorite champs and fuck anyone who doesn't play those

DerptionaryMar 2, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Why can't we expect AD mids to build vs instead of ruining entirely?

Because there's this weird item that, much like Zhonyas... Gives offensive and defensive stats, and has a pretty nifty passive... It's called item 3155

thinking manMar 2, 20154 votes

Zhonya's gives you a massive amount of damage while BV doesn't.

CrettMar 2, 20154 votes

item 3156

Poptart EvelynnMar 2, 20153 votes

Merc scim pathing is rough. It offers no damage until it's like built unlicky zhonya armor gaurd offering resist and damage.

ZephyrDrakeMar 2, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kawaii Kha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iRYEWzEa,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-03-02T01:53:19.830+0000)

Merc scim pathing is rough. It offers no damage until it's like built unlicky zhonya armor gaurd offering resist and damage.

you may not get damage but you get the active a hell of a lot sooner than you would if you would buy hourglass. One item offers damage soon in it's build while the other offers you what you want really early in the build. You think people buy seekers for it's stats? they buy it because they want to get to Zhonya's active as soon as possible. The defensive stats are just a small bonus in the long run

JefftiffyMar 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Why can't we expect AD mids to build vs instead of ruining entirely?

Or you know item 3111 which does a much better job. Basically reduces damage as well as let you walk away from him before everything even lands.

SammystormMar 2, 20153 votes

Banshee's veil provides no offensive stats. Building it basically makes your damage out put worthless for most of the game. Building QSS delays your power spike by quite a lot and does not build into usefull items making you over all in a worse position then viegar. Besides why does veigar need a stupid good and reliable stun to be considered viable? I would rather them get rid of that stun and add power else where. Does viegar need work now? Yes. However no one should have had that good of a stun.

junglerboy16Mar 2, 20153 votes

It isn't about mid lane, it is about support Veigar as far as I can tell, they just didn't figure out how to nerf support Veigar without hurting mid Veigar as well.

DurzakaMar 2, 20152 votes

Probably because Zhonya's provides a fuck load of damage as well as the defensive stats?

BubbaDukeMar 2, 20152 votes

When do you not build zhonya's as an AP mid?

ArknaMar 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

When do you not build zhonya's as an AP mid?

This.

The item active on Zhonya's is so powerful that it's one of your strongest defensive pickups even in an ap vs ap lane (disjoint spells, buy time for cds).