Riot how about you slow down on champs

RowanEnd·Mar 4, 2016·40 votes·2,307 views

and instead focus your resources on improving every other aspect of your game, which is having trouble.

ex: -Balance -Bugs -Report System flaws -Ban System flaws -Item balance -(Bring back solo queue) -(Do something about masteries) -(Add another map; 3 maps are low af) -(Add more lore events) -(Make games last longer and less snowbally) -(MORE STUFF OTHER THAN CHAMPIONS THANKS)

Edit: I'm aware that they have multiple teams to work on content. I just think that if they have a lot of their resources invested in champ creation then they should instead give the things I listed above more importance. Specifically, I think it would be great if they focused on events and balance and had more people on those teams than champ creation.

43 Comments

MrRazzleDazzleMar 4, 201620 votes

You sweet, summer child. Champion releases happened every 2-3 WEEKS from '09 until '13.

I agree that they need to focus on the areas you listed but in terms of champion releases, yeah, they slowed that down already.

YumaS2AstralMar 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You sweet, summer child. Champion releases happened every 2-3 WEEKS from '09 until '13.

I agree that they need to focus on the areas you listed but in terms of champion releases, yeah, they slowed that down already.

To be honest I think that Riot is actually releasing too few champions.

slippykittenMar 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You sweet, summer child. Champion releases happened every 2-3 WEEKS from '09 until '13.

I agree that they need to focus on the areas you listed but in terms of champion releases, yeah, they slowed that down already.

Yep, I remember thinking the same thing when we had a new champ every 2 weeks only to be disappointed when they slowed down champ releases but gave us nothing in return.

XonraMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yep, I remember thinking the same thing when we had a new champ every 2 weeks only to be disappointed when they slowed down champ releases but gave us nothing in return.

We got stuff, it just took them forever, because it wasn't until close to the end of 2014 that they finally got their shite together with having regular patches with more balance and reworks.

They were still working on things before, but they were so terribly so at everything BUT pumping out new champs, that everything else just took so damn long. I remember how glad I was to get a breath between champs, then just being bored that they basically did nothing for like 6 months aside from a few balance changes here and there.

RowanEndMar 5, 20161 votes

I started playing in november 2014 :') im an LoL fetus

CaythelesMar 4, 20168 votes

oh boy... another one of these...

Look they have teams of people who work on different things at the sametime. basically what you are saying is..

Remove people from the Champion concept team and add them to the Item team completely detroying the motion and drive they already have.

A Miss FortuneMar 4, 20164 votes

Their champion design team isn't the team that balances the champions after their release. I think if less champions were made then the game would be easier to balance. Besides, champion releases are becoming more and more stale. Champion releases for me at least use to be extremely interesting and exciting. Now it's just whatever.

I think if the champions weren't so rushed not only would it give the balance team room to balance out already existing problems, but it would give the champion design team more room to make newer champions less buggy, more balanced, and make their releases more interesting than "ok heres some music for your login screen".

Ferus and FerrumMar 4, 20162 votes

New champs are hardly contributing to balance issues. If anyone s being banned or abused right not its older champs. Champs like Yi, Lucian, kogmaw, darius etc. Jhin seems pretty balanced and he's hardly been live for a month. Champion design and balance are two different teams. I doubt giving the one new champ a balance slot on PBE affects the other changes that the team makes. And what about the old releases was so "interesting" that they don't do now. Aurelion Sol was just teased and I'm hyped and eager for his reveal especially since its an old concept and I want to see where riot went with it.

XonraMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

New champs are hardly contributing to balance issues.

This is not the worst thing I've seen in this thread, but this is a pretty terrible line regardless. You must have a very shortsighted view to truly believe this.

sure Jhin might not be a contributing factor, but on more occasions than I can count on two hands, they have.

Jinx 100% did Lucian 100% did Darius 100% did Tahm Kench 100% did

When you have to balance around new champs, balance items around new champs, and completely rework a whole cast of champs because of the most recent new champs in that role (like most of the other adcs being a full tier below jinx, lucian, and kalista outside of a few times for nearly a full year and a half) you couldn't be more wrong. Sure they aren't the only factor responsible for balance issues, but they are FULLY contributing factors.

Ferus and FerrumMar 5, 20161 votes

Ok perhaps my phrasing should've been different. the "Recent" champions have not really been contributing to that many balancing issues. The biggest examples have been kindred and Tahm kench recently. I remember jinx and Lucian release and the hell that promptly followed. Of course when some champs are released into the live servers they can contribute to massive balance outcry (see yasuo release) I was speaking more in regards to how the recent champs have had less of an effect on the game as a whole however, if I wasn't clear.

RowanEndMar 5, 20161 votes

I'm advocating for Riot to distribute their resources and what job slots are filled so that more effort is being directed towards improving the game and events, and that they should start to take more time with balance and features that AREN'T champions. I get that they have multiple teams, I just think they should cut back on the champ team a little.

XeynidMar 4, 20167 votes

Yeah riot, I know that adding more people and money into an issue doesn't actually make it get fixed faster, and I know that you probably already have as many resources as you can devoted to these things, but FIX THEM FASTER AND FIRE THE CHAMPION DESIGN TEAM TO BETTER.

The Vilemaw IconMar 4, 20165 votes

Well the people working on new champs wouldn't suddenly be tasked with balance changes or systems design. That said, less new champs more people working on reworks and skins would be great. That or even just less new champs and the same amount of other stuff. Game is recklessly charging toward a completely untenable number of champs and nobody seems to care...

Rabbid999Mar 4, 20163 votes

-Make games more enjoyable

totally agree

AimiMar 4, 20163 votes

New champs added but still 3 bans each side. We need 4 bans soon

LlaniteMar 4, 20163 votes

New champion = design team (artist, designer, VO, etc) Balance = number-crunching balance team.

Unless the balance team knows how to code, or fired and replace with programmer, resources cannot be transferred. Different team does different stuff with their time.

As a side note, champion brings cash, new maps won't, new report won't and new balance most likely brings negative feedback (i.e. see what they got trying to improve the game in s6?)

XonraMar 4, 20163 votes

{quoted}

New champion = design team (artist, designer, VO, etc) Balance = number-crunching balance team.

Unless the balance team knows how to code, or fired and replace with programmer, resources cannot be transferred. They simply do different stuff with their time.

As a side note, champion brings cash, new maps won't, new report won't and new balance most likely brings negative feedback (i.e. see what they got trying to change the game in s6?)

New maps bring excitement to play, (just like play numbers jump with new modes even on existing modes) which means more chances for people to get skins, get "addicted" to playing again, and so on.

New champions don't bring near as much cash as you think, especially from players like me that have been playing a while and can just buy them with ip.

Also while balance might not need artists and all that, the reworks sure do, and there are plenty of champs in need of that visually and otherwise. We STILL aren't getting a Yorick rework until at the soonish the end of this year, and it could be sooner if Riot wasn't pumping out new champs just because.

I promise you if you had asked 100 people if they would have prefered the Taric rework sooner, or Jhin, about 5-10 of them would have said both, and the other 90 would have said Taric.

Also Also, just to go back to your misguided point of champs making money, that isn't really anywhere near where riot makes money (as far as in the game). Skins are probably easily 80% of what rp is spent on. Champs are probably closer to 5% today because of more and more players like me who have all the champs already and don't ned to spend money on them.

Ferus and FerrumMar 4, 20161 votes

The champion update team has nothing to do with the team that makes new champions so your statement about yorick is false. Your statement about taric is completely hypothetical and is based on 0 facts. You assume that 100% of the sample group even plays support at all and that the other 5-10% would've liked both at the same time. I suppose if you asked 100 support players then sure maybe they would all give that answer. But then, it that really an honest reflection of the community as a whole? I honestly don't care much for taric's rework, just not hyped for it. Jhin is shiny and new and interesting to me. I'm excited for Aurelion Sol as well, but not taric. He's just a support to me, and doesn't fit my playstyle. Even if he's less binary when his rework comes out I probably wont play him.

XonraMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The champion update team has nothing to do with the team that makes new champions

Too bad you were wrong before you even finished your first sentence. If you read dev blogs, saw red posts, or saw the streams and videos riot has done, you'd know just how wrong you are.

I already said this in response to others, but a lot of the people on one team are part of the other team as well.

I'll give you one example that you probably completely forgot about already somehow in the name CertainlyT

He designed:

Darius Thresh Zyra Yasuo Kalista

He Has most recently worked on reworks/updates on:

Caitlyn Morde

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are wrong.

Also, what you think Riot has 70 artists just for splash art and character models? When they have to use their modelers for new champs and artists for splash art, they are using the same people that work on models and art for reworks and updates.

Know what you are talking about before trying to call someone out on being wrong. I've been around here since mid 2010, so I don't even have to google this stuff to know what I'm talking about, but feel free to google about if you don't believe me. It's pretty easy to find info that has been repeated so many times it blows my mind people still make these arguments.

Ferus and FerrumMar 5, 20161 votes

Not every champion designer also works on new champion projects and I've never heard of a case of someone working on two projects at the same time. I know how splash art work and art direction is coordinated as It's part of what I do for a living with smaller projects of course, that aside my phrasing was wrong but the association was correct. At what point does an issue with a new champion in development halt the rework of another one?

If new champions were to stop being developed all together I'm sure reworks would come out sooner and vice versa however most of these works are already months to a year in progress already and are being worked on by a small group of people who already have an idea of what they want this champ to be. Adding more people into the mix is disruptive and unnecessary.

The entire idea of allocating these resources is kind of dumb though. Just because new champs don't bring in as much cash as skins, they make it up by keeping the game fresh and exciting.

Though this may surprise you "It ain't all about the money." riot is thinking about the current state of the game, how to keep our interest, and how to profit from it. In order to do all these things they have to try and appease everybody. Both the people who like shiny new toys, and the people who just wanna polish up the old ones.

P.S. The champion update window of time that CertainlyT worked in was significantly smaller than the scope of any of the major reworks we've seen. The very concept of mass reworks/ thematic shifts was unprecedented until last year. You can still count him, but let me know when he changes more than two spells.

swordishforceMar 4, 20161 votes

People like to complain just for complaint's sake. They use to release champs every fucking 2 weeks and now its 1 every 2 months. Beyond that there is a diminishing return to just adding more people to a team, you know the whole to many cooks in the kitchen idea. The opportunity cost of bringing people from the new champ design team over to ChampUp is too high.

XonraMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

People like to complain just for complaint's sake. They use to release champs every fucking 2 weeks and now its 1 every 2 months. Beyond that there is a diminishing return to just adding more people to a team, you know the whole to many cooks in the kitchen idea. The opportunity cost of bringing people from the new champ design team over to ChampUp is too high.

I'm not asking for "more people" I'm asking for the existing people to not be split for the sake of new champs, when there is plenty other things they could work on. Not every person on the rework or "champ up" team works on new champs, and not every person on new champs works on the champ up team, but there are plenty that move around between "teams" and such.

So when you are taking focus from reworks and updates to come out with another champ to throw on top of the imbalance pile, it only slows down work on the reworks and updates for a champ that will need attention later anyways along with all the others for updates and balance. If they were 100% separate teams, sure I get where you are coming from, but that isn't the case. I've seen plenty of the Rioters that work on reworks and updates be the same ones that worked on champ x 2-3 champs ago. So they aren't separate, they are the same people, and when you take them to work on a new champ, you are just delaying everything else outside of art and such (and sometimes that as they've multiple times explained, as they have to work together. You don't just draw a picture and come up with a story from nothing all separate. So yes, working on new champs does in fact slow the process of reworks and updates on other champs.)

Your assumption is you'd have to take from one to give to another, and the fact is, a lot of the people on one are already FROM the other or are part of both.

LlaniteMar 5, 20161 votes

You get 250 IP a game for win of the day, at 50% win rate, that's 2 games which would take one hour, a new champion costs 6300 IP which is 25 win of the day = 25 hours. Even crappy job at burger king paid $8 an hour ($15 in some states?), I'd take the cash route everytime, unless, of course, you have a lot of IP piled up and nothing to spend on, which is less common than you think. Grinding IP is generally a poor use of time, but who am I to judge.
Skin makes money, yes, but how often do you see a skin? And every game requires 10 champions, 10 rune pages and 300 runes as far as I know. Skin is a luxury, champions are necessaries. Here's the secret, they are running against time, just as in the game where you try to gank, if you come once every 5 minutes, they flash everytime and you get zero return. The magical window to score a kill is the next 4 min 59 sec. The same holds for champion release, if the break is more than 50 days, 'casual players' (i.e. one game regardless win/loss) start to pile up their useless IP and the next champ after that will generate zero revenue.
You will not be able to hold that Taric promise, people who do not play bot will not give a dime about Taric rework. Most people still don't what Poppy does, besides her barrier circle stopping dash, and you would think they care about the rework of a support no one plays? Also, for the record, rework takes the same amount of works, and has less return than a new champion, for 2 reasons, the then-rework champion will still end up at the old price, they cannot raise it back to 6300, and some people who already had the champ will not make the purchase. It's pro-bono kind of thing. Figure out by yourself why it takes way too long for large reworks to even pass planning phase.

XonraMar 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You get 250 IP a game for win of the day, at 50% win rate, that's 2 games which would take one hour, a new champion costs 6300 IP which is 25 win of the day = 25 hours. Even crappy job at burger king paid $8 an hour ($15 in some states?), I'd take the cash route everytime, unless, of course, you have a lot of IP piled up and nothing to spend on, which is less common than you think. Grinding IP is generally a poor use of time, but who am I to judge.

I've not dropped under 17k ip for the past 2 years. I play at most 10 games a week.

That is with buying every new champ with IP since probably 2014 at least. That's the long and short of my response to all of that. I also have nearly every tier 3 rune, aside from the ones that are pointless to buy (like anything related to energy) and about 10 or 12 rune pages (don't remember exactly how many without logging in to look).

Skin makes money, yes, but how often do you see a skin?

Is this a trick question or was this supposed to be a clever question to prove a point? Every game unless it is pre 30 or bot games, maybe sometimes not in aram, and even that is a stretch.

You will not be able to hold that Taric promise, people who do not play bot will not give a dime about Taric rework.

Sure I can.

Also riot has said many times that people that play bot only games doesn't even make up a full percentage of the LoL population (not counting custom games). Appreciate the lengthy response, but... <_<

Nar7iaMar 4, 20163 votes

I personally feel they should increase the ip gain now instead of slowing down on champ release.Like people pointed out here , riot has different teams dedicated to work on different things.Right now however , there is just too much stuff to get in-game especially for newer players like myself.Its really tough to get champions/runes etc fast enough without paying real money.Just my 2 cents :P

ModCaptainMårvelousMar 4, 20163 votes

Pretty much everything you listed is done by different teams.

What the hell is an artist going to do about the report system or bugs? What is a modeler going to do about balance? (Which is an exaggerated problem) What would a VA do about ban systems?

In a fantasy world yeah Ironstylus could code just as well as a coder and Phreak could balance the game and shoutcast at the same time. Unfortunately, we live in reality.

AquariusGineMar 4, 20162 votes

I totally agree with OP but they can slow down after our dragon alright*[slayer-jinx-wink]*

Irelia BotMar 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I totally agree with OP but they can slow down after our dragon alright*[slayer-jinx-wink]*

we have Shyvana so be happy with that for now.

There are more urgent things then a dragon with how many people just don't enjoy playing agter season 6 changes.

MXXXXXLMar 4, 20161 votes

But you only get to play as dragon form Shyvana for like 5% or less of the game.

l PopstarAhri lMar 4, 20162 votes

Thank you, Mr RowanEnd, too bad Riot gives 0 fuks Ahri

Ralik098Mar 4, 20162 votes

They should have stopped releasing champions years ago, in fact they should go back and just delete everything released after Diana or so, everything since then has just made the game worse.

XonraMar 4, 20162 votes

With the amount of champions that are in desperate need of visual updates STILL and the amount of champions in need of reworks, and fixing terribly failed reworks, I don't get why they keep pumping out champions like a baby factory. It is only making it harder on them to keep things balanced and taking resources away from other areas.

AnnoxisMar 4, 20162 votes

Wanna know something funny ? Most things you listed here are done by different teams and each of these teams are composed with people that have different skills, according team. They couldn't so simply manage their human ressources, even if they wanted to.

RowanEndMar 5, 20161 votes

I know that they have multiple teams, I'm advocating for riot to distribute their resources in such a way so that the things I listed have a higher priority than champ creation.

Valderis VandalaMar 4, 20161 votes

Slow down?! Are you mental, they are already going at a snails pace these days. Do you only want to see like 1 or 2 a year or something?

IstanazrellMay 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valderis Vandala,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iR4jgkcZ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-03-04T02:58:23.355+0000)

Slow down?! Are you mental, they are already going at a snails pace these days. Do you only want to see like 1 or 2 a year or something?

Yes.

Jungle Lux GodMar 4, 20161 votes

It's likely that Riot wanted to get to the Targon event soon and wanted Aurelion Sol to be a part of it like we had most of the recent events (the Shadow Isles event had Kalista, the Shurima event had Azir, and the Freljord event had Lissandra; the only exception is the Bilgewater event, which compensated with a rework to Gangplank). It's unusual for Riot to release champions in this short a time frame, and the only reason they'd do it is so that they can release an event with it too.

ViashinoWizardMar 4, 20161 votes

Champions are already in development for about a year on average.

SaiannaMar 4, 20161 votes

-full champion pool for ARAM (please :<?)

MXXXXXLMar 4, 20161 votes

There's nothing wrong with more champions, they might be splitting the work between multiple groups of people so maybe not making champions wouldn't speed up the process of balance or other problems (Champion designer is an artist but not a coder), so they can only work on 1 thing.

And i agree with all of these things except more lore events, the lore should be ignored in favor of other things like making champions, and lore can get obnoxious when it negatively effects gameplay for a portion of the community, such as when they disabled Gangplank because he died in the lore, that was just dumb, i like Gbay99's idea of forcing players to use his Spooky Gangplank skin when they pick him.

WeatheredMar 4, 20161 votes

The champ design team is separate from the others.

SpoofghoulMar 4, 20161 votes

since its different teams i think one approach could be to significantly slow down champ realease 1-2 a year and then move members to the rework team to update and rework existing champions making them more interesting and balanced.

KyrrionMar 5, 20161 votes

Heh, I remember when Riot was releasing a new champ every two weeks.