This isn't an "I QUIT" post. I am asking this because it has happened with other companies, most recently Capcom who restored Resident Evil back to what the fans want. Will that actually happen with League in the future? Will damage come down and more strategic gameplay return? Or should I just give up now and call this game a victim of the Fornite/Overwatch Generation? Like most of our beloved movie and game franchises?
Crispy0Snake20 votesI think since the tank meta, riot has been cautious to only allow champions to be tanky for short periods of time, and that's with Stoneplate and Aftershock
People in low elo act like they can still blow you up, but you're actually unkillable (for a brief time) and teamfights can be super structured and last a long time
I think toplaners struggle to be tanks because you can't even approach the waves if you build tank. Even Cho'Gath and Maokai, with their sustain, can struggle. Bruisers build a dmg/hp item first then tank up, and the damage item components are normally good for trading in lane
Top lane feels to me like... I take a bad trade and I'm 200hp, lose plates, get ganked when I come back to lane... Top laners got it rough for real
Ragnaveil5 votesYes we did, and yet people dont assume thats the case, and say we have more influence on the game than ADCs because "Bruisers are broken!!!!", when its just Jax and Riven, two very disgusting fighters who are pretty much as tanky as bruisers because of damage healing or high scaling defensive abilities. Heres the thing: Not every toplaner player plays Jax, not every toplaner plays Riven. So those people end up getting the short end of the stick because they dont have the golden ticket.
This results in jungle getting shafted on top of their own balance fuckups by Riot.
3TWarrior1 votesjax actually is a bruiser and has the defenses to back it up. fighters are characters like Xin and yi who have to build some form of damage or they do nothing
: fighter
: fighter
: fighter
: fighter
: bruiser
: bruiser
: bruiser (technically now juggernaut)
: bruiser (also juggernaut )
: bruiser (yet another juggernaut XD)
I guess you could argue about 
being necessary for their damage, but if you compare that to the almost essential glass cannon builds of the other characters...you can see the difference (idk if Urgot builds it or not. He used to, but the new one is a lot different XD )
Ifneth1 votesSpeaking very strictly, Nocturne is an Assassin, and Yasuo and Tryndamere are Duelists, which are the two sub-classes of the larger Slayer class. The rest belong to the Fighter class, which has the two sub-classes Diver and Juggernaut: Olaf, and Warwick are Divers while Yorick, Udyr, Urgot, and Trundle are Juggernauts.
3TWarrior1 votestechnically, nocturne is a diver, a large portion of which are also fighters. Jax is also a diver
Riot's class system has always been weird, especially when they "decide" that a champion should change classes and specialties
Udyr is technically a fighter and tank hybrid where his specialties vary. His counterplay, similar to a juggernaut, is to be avoided completely, but does his threat value justify calling him a juggernaut?
Ifneth1 votesThe classes are listed on the wiki: click on the big symbol to the right of the champion’s name on its page. Here’s Nocturne
3TWarrior1 votesyes, and quite a few of their classifications are incorrect
want a simple example?
compare and 
or 
or 
or 
to
and 
or 
or 
or 
nocturne gets in and doesn't get out...a trademark of a diver. Tends to rely mostly on auto attacks (another common trait), has defenses and crowd control (another common trait of a diver) ,
compare that to assassins who: are highly mobile, get into and out of a fight, rely primarily on abilities for damage, typically have no defensive abilties and instead rely on mobility or unable to be targeted
katarina is probably the oddest of the bunch because she is designed around killing EVERYONE AT ONCE and instant plays involving blinks
Ifneth1 votesWoah. That is a good point and downright bizarre classification of Elise as a Diver. She’s built full AP and tries to nuke down a single squishy target. Nocturne is built full AD and tries to do the same thing, yet is called an Assassin. Bizarre.
3TWarrior1 votes
and 
are other examples. Mages who play like assassins. The mage and Assassin class are almost contradictory to each other, especially when it comes to getting into close combat
they'd be better classified as specialists
The thigh guy38 votesI think since the tank meta, riot has been cautious to only allow champions to be tanky for short periods of time, and that's with Stoneplate and Aftershock
People in low elo act like they can still blow you up, but you're actually unkillable (for a brief time) and teamfights can be super structured and last a long time
I think toplaners struggle to be tanks because you can't even approach the waves if you build tank, even Cho'Gath and Maokai with their sustain can struggle. Bruisers build a dmg/hp item first then tank up, and the damage item components are normally good for trading in lane
Top lane feels to me like... I take a bad trade and I'm 200hp, lose plates, get ganked when I come back to lane... Top laners got it rough for real
Tank meta was more fun than this crap tbh.
You actually had room to outplay. Compared to now where it’s just an arms race to see who can 100-0 the other with as little counterplay as possible.
Crispy0Snake4 votesI mean there's definitely a state where tanks aren't running wild AND damage is toned down (Especially from mages, and I swear it's just Void Staff I'd want changed to give a bit less % pen), there's got to be a happy medium right? surely?
There is still counter play in the game, almost every Morgana game I play there's at least three interactions where I can save my ADC with a reaction-E, or I play a tank and I peel for my ADC so they can keep dps up
I have to admit though, new runes did add a lot of ambient damage so that kills happened more often. All ins that would leave you at 200-300hp before now tend to kill you because there always seems to be a way to deal that extra bit of damage, even if the person killing you isn't fed. They will have another sheen/ludens/duskblade proc, another cooldown thanks to many sources of CDR that they would not have had before etc.
The thigh guy8 votesI mean there's definitely a state where tanks aren't running wild AND damage is toned down (Especially from mages, and I swear it's just Void Staff I'd want changed to give a bit less % pen), there's got to be a happy medium right? surely?
There is still counter play in the game, almost every Morgana game I play there's at least three interactions where I can save my ADC with a reaction-E, or I play a tank and I peel for my ADC so they can keep dps up
I have to admit though, new runes did add a lot of ambient damage so that kills happened more often. All ins that would leave you at 200-300hp before now tend to kill you because there always seems to be a way to deal that extra bit of damage, even if the person killing you isn't fed. They will have another sheen/ludens/duskblade proc, another cooldown thanks to many sources of CDR that they would not have had before etc.
While yes there is a middle ground, riot has never managed to hit it. They always seem to overshoot by miles.
And yeah you can try and stop oneshots like you do with Morgana, but the success rate isn’t even close to reliable. Especially with every champion who’s performing these oneshots having 800 dashes 17 blinks and 32 different ms steroids. Not to mention edge of nights entire existence.
Note, all of this is coming from a Kayn one trick who gravitates towards shadow assassin.
ModAcademy Kayn10 votesI mean, Devil's advocate, there was no counterplay to a Tank sitting on your face eating everything, taking zero damage, and then still proceeding to kill you. Said 'outplay' didn't exist because of how easily tanks could stick on you, along with their utility.
There's downsides to every meta, but today's state makes people forget the problems of an older time.
NoobDefault5 votes[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iHeFMl0J,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2019-09-25T01:36:51.943+0000)
I mean, Devil's advocate, there was no counterplay to a Tank sitting on your face eating everything, taking zero damage, and then still proceeding to kill you. Said 'outplay' didn't exist because of how easily tanks could stick on you, along with their utility.
There's downsides to every meta, but today's state makes people forget the problems of an older time.
I assume you are talking about the era of the "tank" meta. Which is by far the worst example.
Ofc there was counter play to tanks. In lane you would have dominance over the minions so the counter play was to attempt to starve the tank from getting too big late game. Also, tanks would be fairly weak 1v1, their strengths were that they initiated fights and caused a general disruption to the enemy team.
There is a huge diffrence between the tank meta where tanks had equal to greater damage than the carrys in addition to the survivability the class is known for and what tanks used to be where they did continuous sub-mediocre damage while excelling at crowd control while having their survivability.
This is simple balance 101. I still can't fathom how so many players dont understand basic balancing principles or can't differentiate between basic class fundamentals and foundational failures of design.
Shiroyashayami3 votesThe problem of tank meta wasn't tanks being unkillable, but them doing too much damage. When you can't die and do insane damage then you automatically win. I would prefer a tank meta still tbh. This shit with 3 skills killing you just doesn't require any thinking. Its not engaging to play something this braindead. If the damage was lower, the game would be so much better. Strategy would actually be a part of the game again.
Xintium3 votesThe problem of tank meta wasn't tanks being unkillable, but them doing too much damage. When you can't die and do insane damage then you automatically win. I would prefer a tank meta still tbh. This shit with 3 skills killing you just doesn't require any thinking. Its not engaging to play something this braindead. If the damage was lower, the game would be so much better. Strategy would actually be a part of the game again.
Exactly. Which is almost paradoxical to think that the biggest issue in the tank meta was (wait for it...) damage. What is commonly called "tank meta" was really a "damage+tank meta". So, by removing the ability for tanks to (reasonably) survive, we are left with only "damage" meta.
Back then, the common reasoning for having a (tank+damage) meta in the first place was that tank "needed" damage, say for, e.g., wave control, being a threat to the backline, etc. Except for wave control, that reasoning was basically nonsense. Wave control could have been resolved by having two separates damage tables: one against minions, the other against champions. This way, damage against minions could have been fine-tuned separately from damage against champions.
Of course, since champions in LoL are/were (quite literally) "coded as minions", this solution, while definitive, would have required major effort. So it was never implemented. And the rest is history.
Ragnaveil2 votesEven though its coded now. Still dunno why they haven't made any effort.
HeeroTX1 votes"Tanks needed more damage" for one simple reason that is (and unfortunately ALWAYS will be) true: Teamwork OP. The core problem with this game is you have maybe 5% of people that are 100% willing to play whatever role is necessary to help the team win and actually ENJOY working in a team environment. Everyone else just wants to be "big dick daddy". This is why true "tanks" are not a thing, because if you have a viable tank, then a small percentage of players who play "correctly" will dominate and everyone who doesn't WANT to play "correctly" will complain about "muh agency". I still believe you could improve this a LITTLE bit if Ranked wasn't solely determined by W/L, but at the end of the day, stats prove that the VAST majority don't want to play roles that aren't killing lots of opponents. That's why tanks are all but useless and why you have so many mages and assassins in the "support" role.
Xintium1 votes"Tanks needed more damage" for one simple reason that is (and unfortunately ALWAYS will be) true: Teamwork OP.
Can you please explain how "Teamwork OP" somehow makes tanks needing more damage? Aside from regurgitated slogans, I mean.
The core problem with this game is you have maybe 5% of people that are 100% willing to play whatever role is necessary to help the team win and actually ENJOY working in a team environment. Everyone else just wants to be "big dick daddy".
This may or may not be true. I was a support main back in the day (playing "true" supports, like Sona, Janna, Lulu, Braum, not "modern" supports like Pyke), so I certainly can't sympathize with this feeling.
This is why true "tanks" are not a thing, because if you have a viable tank, then a small percentage of players who play "correctly" will dominate and everyone who doesn't WANT to play "correctly" will complain about "muh agency".
True tanks, with very few exceptions, are not a thing now due to the meta being unfavorable to them. By the way, if a tank deals less damage, the damaged player will have more agency, since it will have time to do something. I don't know if you were around when the tank meta was a thing, but, at that time, tank players literally warped and dominated the meta and everyone who didn't play "correctly", i.e., by picking a champion from a very small subset of the champion roster, was left behind. And the problem of that was: (1) not an absence of teamwork; (2) not the "big dick daddy" (those were quickly culled out); but (surprise!) tanks dealing too much damage!
I still believe you could improve this a LITTLE bit if Ranked wasn't solely determined by W/L, but at the end of the day, stats prove that the VAST majority don't want to play roles that aren't killing lots of opponents. That's why tanks are all but useless and why you have so many mages and assassins in the "support" role.
We have mages and assassins in the support role due to a combination of factors (I have explain these in more detail in a previous post regarding Pyke), but the short version is: "Kill Lanes" became the best lanes, unconditionally. In the land of "kill before you get killed", assassins and burst mages were, quite trivially, the best choices available. And Pyke, with his gold-sharing mechanic and officially labeled as "assassin-support", sealed the deal.
It may be perfectly realistic that the vast majority of players don't want to play "true" supports or, more generally, champions who can't burst another champion. Still, I don't see why this should lead to tanks dealing tons of damage being "ok". It's not the way to fix the problem anyway, it only exacerbates it, by adding tanks to the problem! That's why, as I said, most of the reasons justifying "tank meta" were, under critical scrutiny, nonsense.
HeeroTX2 votesSince my post apparently gave the wrong impression, let me clarify something. I do not LIKE the current situation nor am I HAPPY about the proliferation of damage. I main Tristana (for various reasons) but after that my PREFERENCE is to play supports and/or tanks. The PROBLEM I'm pointing out is that when you have what I (personally) consider a "healthy" META, then tanks and (true) supports have a LOT of influence on a game, they just don't KILL a lot of enemies. The result of this is that the 95% of players that don't WANT to play those roles then WHINE incessantly because their attempts to carry late game with a top duelist against a well formed team with a solid tank frontline fail because they can't 1v3 split push to victory.
Just look at the argument being had. "Tank META" should have never been a problem, because BOTH sides should HAVE tanks. I remember OP nigh-unkillable Mundo. You know what the biggest problem was then? PEOPLE DIDN'T BUILD RIGHT. Tanks were super strong, but you had a bunch of braindead lemmings just building X without modifying for what their opponents had or were doing. The "META" should always include at least one of the following:
(EDIT: Riot instead decided they want to keep their SR stats high so they turn SR into "high damage" rather than see numbers drop by having URF always on)
ADDENDUM: The above is also why autofill is a necessary thing btw.
Xintium1 votesThanks for the clarification, it was much needed.
The PROBLEM I'm pointing out is that when you have what I (personally) consider a "healthy" META, then tanks and (true) supports have a LOT of influence on a game, they just don't KILL a lot of enemies. The result of this is that the 95% of players that don't WANT to play those roles then WHINE incessantly because their attempts to carry late game with a top duelist against a well formed team with a solid tank frontline fail because they can't 1v3 split push to victory.
What you described is basically the best scenarios ever: a champion having significat influence without killing enemies himself. If players whine in that situation, let them whine, cause they don't understand basics. However, I highly doubt that players consistently whined about that, because such a situation never occurred for a significant timeframe in LoL (Ardent Censer is the only real exception, but an over-tuned item is quite different from an entire class of champions being over-tuned).
Just look at the argument being had. "Tank META" should have never been a problem, because BOTH sides should HAVE tanks. I remember OP nigh-unkillable Mundo. You know what the biggest problem was then? PEOPLE DIDN'T BUILD RIGHT.
That is, frankly speaking, utterly false. (1) Both sides had tanks, but not all tanks are created equal; (2) In the tank meta, you could easily predict the outcome of a pro-play match by: (2.1) counting tanks (team with most tanks > team with less tanks); (2.2) if they have the same number, the team with the best tanks would typically win. Team-comp mattered only to the bare minimum of not having anti-synergies.
People did build right. At least, pro-players did. The problem is: no "right" build existed to counter tanks, unless you were a strictly better tank, in which case, you just trashed the enemy tank. There was no real build to mitigate what tanks could do.
Tanks were super strong, but you had a bunch of braindead lemmings just building X without modifying for what their opponents had or were doing.
This happened for Midlaners and ADCs, but only because every single possible combination of items in the game was just trash compared to the raw power of tanks. Builds were stagnant because builds were almost irrelevant. Yes, it was that bad.
The "META" should always include at least one of the following:
- Tank (usually top)
- Burst (usually Mid)
- DoT (usually ADC)
- Utility (usually support) And then #5 can be whatever is strong atm or what fits well in the comp. The problem is everyone wants to play #2, a decent number are good with #3, and #1 & #4 are usually tough sells. This is also why I've long maintained Riot should just make URF a permanent gamemode, not because I LIKE it, not because I want to play it (I don't) but because then all the people that want to play "Team Deathmatch" can do so and those of us that want a true "strategy" game can have it back.
(EDIT: Riot instead decided they want to keep their SR stats high so they turn SR into "high damage" rather than see numbers drop by having URF always on)
What you have written here is essentially true. The sad truth is that we aren't gonna get back to a strategy game in any way... because money. The few dedicated players who wanted to be #4 are now basically "forced" into playing supports like Pyke, or be strictly sub-optimal (which is not a real choice). Reducing utility always implicitly leads to damage-dealers being stronger, since you can't keep them at bay with utility anymore.
HeeroTX1 votesWhat you described is basically the best scenarios ever: a champion having significat influence without killing enemies himself. If players whine in that situation, let them whine, cause they don't understand basics. However, I highly doubt that players consistently whined about that
There's a thread RIGHT NOW complaining about "hook supports" ALL hook supports. Pyke sure, Blitz with the buff, I get, but also Thresh, Naut & Leona. These are champs whose kit is literally designed to SETUP plays, and yeah, when played well, they're annoying as hell, but they provide utility rather than damage. Remember when Soraka was strong? Healing is a pain in the ass to deal with, so it got nerf. Remember when Tahm was one of the best supports, back when he wasn't a top laner? And on and on. But ignore that, you know how many games I see every week where people bitch about the OP midlaner or bot without noticing the 50 assist support? Especially when it's a "support" Pyke, or Brand or Velkoz complaining about the team not matching up to their 8 kill skill level? Or all the "tanks" that build AP and wait BEHIND the mid and bot so they can "LC$-Big-plays" assassinate someone?
Hell, the most annoying support right now (IMO) is Lux, simply because she can spam damage AND utility just mashing buttons to throw out everything in her kit on insane cooldowns.
Yeah, the pros play all sorts of things because they coordinate well. But you've got champs like Kogmaw who are super strong but see minimal play because 9 times out of 10 (in solo-q) no one is gonna cover for you and you're screwed with no mobility.
Note, the above does NOT apply to "high elo", this is Gold and below, but that population is the vast majority of the League playerbase. And again, THAT is also why we "need" autofill, because people won't play the "non-damage" roles, and if those roles have their PROPER influence, then you get a ton of complaining about bad games because the team with 1 utility player beats the team with 0 most of the time and all the people that want to play heavy kill supports (which is most of them) whine and bitch and complain about how they never get to play mid.
Xintium1 votesThere's a thread RIGHT NOW complaining about "hook supports" ALL hook supports. Pyke sure, Blitz with the buff, I get, but also Thresh, Naut & Leona. These are champs whose kit is literally designed to SETUP plays, and yeah, when played well, they're annoying as hell, but they provide utility rather than damage.
I have read that thread. You had a really wrong impression of it, since the original poster (a Diamond support player) even admits to be biased himself. He plays some enchanters who get systematically hard-countered by Thresh, Blitz, Naut, Pyke. Leona is the only true exception there, but he himself says she is balanced. He raises some specific points and I agree with him for most of them.
Remember when Soraka was strong? Healing is a pain in the ass to deal with, so it got nerf. Remember when Tahm was one of the best supports, back when he wasn't a top laner? And on and on.
The nerf Soraka got was, numbers-wise, badly tuned, but at least in theory justified. Tahm was a bit too much, honestly, and his ult was simply too good in pro-play, while being barely viable in soloQ (due to lack of coordination).
But ignore that, you know how many games I see every week where people bitch about the OP midlaner or bot without noticing the 50 assist support? Especially when it's a "support" Pyke, or Brand or Velkoz complaining about the team not matching up to their 8 kill skill level? Or all the "tanks" that build AP and wait BEHIND the mid and bot so they can "LC$-Big-plays" assassinate someone?
Let them bitch. Silence is a rarely-apprecciated virtue.
Hell, the most annoying support right now (IMO) is Lux, simply because she can spam damage AND utility just mashing buttons to throw out everything in her kit on insane cooldowns.
Lux support is the outcome of a long chain of effects. She is very annoying, since one Lux full-combo (Q+E+R + aa + passive procs + ignite) bursts really hard and can 100-0 the ADC (even with 
, because that gets countered by 
) if Lux has 
. However, Lux rarely gets to use that combo, it requires a big mistake from the enemy; most of the time is just Q+E+R, which is strong but you can survive that, at least during laning phase (in late game, not so much). Lux weakness, however, is her total lack of mobility (she doesn't even have a speed boost, like Orianna W and now Annie E). Lux support isn't strong and never will be, there are just too many strictly better supports, like Pyke, who basically does the same thing (kill you with a full-combo), but: (1) it doesn't require a big mistake from the enemy; (2) it is significantly easier to land; (3) Pyke has disgusting mobility and safety; (4) snowballs crazy hard, due to the gold-sharing mechanic.
Yeah, the pros play all sorts of things because they coordinate well. But you've got champs like Kogmaw who are super strong but see minimal play because 9 times out of 10 (in solo-q) no one is gonna cover for you and you're screwed with no mobility.
Note, the above does NOT apply to "high elo", this is Gold and below, but that population is the vast majority of the League playerbase. And again, THAT is also why we "need" autofill, because people won't play the "non-damage" roles, and if those roles have their PROPER influence, then you get a ton of complaining about bad games because the team with 1 utility player beats the team with 0 most of the time and all the people that want to play heavy kill supports (which is most of them) whine and bitch and complain about how they never get to play mid.
Excluding perhaps Diamond+ or even higher elos (and sometimes even there), the team with the pure-utility support, nowadays, is most likely going to lose, not win. That's why no one wants to play that and the transition happened in the first place. Compare Karma/Yuumi/Lulu/Sona winrates with the winrates of Naut/Blitz/Pyke (care with Pyke, he has lower WR merely due to its banrate being insanely high, so you need to adjust for that).
Thresh is also up there. Thresh winrate isn't so high due to its very high popularity, while being a very hard champion to master, so few people can play Thresh at a high level, the others are just average or straight-up bad with him (note: elo doesn't matter much, it is incredibly easy to screw-up with Thresh), I can immediately see the difference between a dedicated Thresh main with 200+ games and a Thresh with barely 50 games on him, the mechanics gap is just huge. In this case, the problem is people not capable of piloting Thresh, rather than the champion, which is (and always will be) an ever-green in all metas, permanently in the strong side of the power spectrum.
Dundai1 votesAs an advocate for Tank Meta, apart from Force of Nature meta, tanks didn't do damage. They were just CC bots and were super tank. No one could kill you and you couldn't kill them. Most engagements ended with you just walking away with your tail between your legs because nothing could be done.
WildEyeHorse1 votesI'm not talking about that, I am talking about bring the damage down for EVERYONE. If that was the case, tanks would be ignored in fights unless they were good players.
Princess Bunhead4 votesThey simply need to tune tank dmg down for tank metas to be good - the fact that tank metas in the last 3 years have meant tanks will be tanky af while also doing significant dmg, is why people are against them... Tanks should have ok early game dmg, and fall of a fucking cliff damagewise, unless they ofcourse build actual dmg, thus sacrificing tankiness.
Padoµch2 votesI think since the tank meta, riot has been cautious to only allow champions to be tanky for short periods of time, and that's with Stoneplate and Aftershock
People in low elo act like they can still blow you up, but you're actually unkillable (for a brief time) and teamfights can be super structured and last a long time
I think toplaners struggle to be tanks because you can't even approach the waves if you build tank. Even Cho'Gath and Maokai, with their sustain, can struggle. Bruisers build a dmg/hp item first then tank up, and the damage item components are normally good for trading in lane
Top lane feels to me like... I take a bad trade and I'm 200hp, lose plates, get ganked when I come back to lane... Top laners got it rough for real
Maokai is basically unplayable. Cho'Gath and Malphite are played full ap because of this reason, because they can.
5050BS17 votesKR and ZH dont like slow play. They want games to last 10m and thats it. That is why we see the game in such trash state.
Kovorix15 votesFrom my gaming expierience of the years I learned that the devs will allways go their way until they realize that the players start quitting then they go back and actually look what they complained about and do some low effort changes.
FUUUBAAAR7 votes^ This. This is a universal truth in the year 2019.
The Kombinator4 votesFrom my gaming expierience of the years I learned that the devs will allways go their way until they realize that the players start quitting then they go back and actually look what they complained about and do some low effort changes.
As a wise man once said. Your wallet is your best way to vote. If tomorrow a new MOBA comes out, and LoL drops 75% of the players in a month while the other one gets tons of positive reviews, then the devs will be literary forced to act.
Right now they can do whatever they want, because there is no real rival.
TehNACHO10 votesIf we're talking about Macroplay, in my opinion as a Jungler, the game is actually rather slow, and in a meaningful way. The first 10 minutes of the game is incredibly difficult to take towers, the first 20 is just as so to take interior or Inhib towers, if you intentionally play a strategic game of: Identifying snowballing lanes and investing in them early game Breaking down outer turrets and establishing dragon/baron control mid game Adapt as a team comp for win conditions late game
That's easily a 30 minute struggle at the bare minimum. Yeah, it's not the hour long games of Season 4, but I don't think people honestly miss that since it really boiled down to 'nothing matters for 30 minutes' to Ziggs/Xerath stall for another 20 minutes to 'Don't you fucking dare die past the 50 minute mark'.
Maybe you can argue each of these phases could be longer, but it's still pretty good imo.
Now if we're talking about closer to Microplay, while I do admit damage is high, I want to stress that people, as a whole, are kinda stupid. Speaking as a Nunu player, I honestly shouldn't be getting nearly as many kills as I do if players just knew gank windows and how to defend themselves properly. Instead, whether it be my team or theirs, once the snowball starts rolling, it's hyperfeeding time. Ultimately it's this element that makes the game so snowbally, and quite frankly makes the first half of my post irrelevant. People just don't seem to be educated in genuine strategy in this game. I don't think strategy is dead because the game has designed it out, I think strategy is dead because people don't care about it quite frankly.
Kovorix9 votesAre we even playing the same game? From first tower to all outer and inner turrets takes about about 17mins. And then it slows a bit down due to the difficulty of taking the enemy base so you waste time waiting for barons that mostly are uncontested as you are so dominant that the enemy can't contest it. This game is stupidly fast. Let's say the normal laning phase where everyone is in there own lanes takes until the first tower we have a laning phase of 10 mins, 10 mins where the biggest strategical part of the game is.
Prozzak5 votesI can't speak for everyone, but those hour long games were 100% by far the best games to take part in and the most fun I have had in league (aside from having a 5 man group just 100% screwing around with each other in a game). Those games were intense as fuck and win or lose they were fun to play in.
TehNACHO2 votesOkay honestly yeah they were really fun but the methods of this being achieved, specifically almost nothing really matter-ing for 30 minutes, was no bueno.
Yets42406 votesI have no idea where this erroneous, and completely bullshit notion that laning phase didn't matter, or that "NOTHING really mattered" for the first half hour. Honestly, this betrays an utter lack of understanding of the game, and how it was played back then-- unsurprisingly, I often see it parroted by people who didn't even play in S1-5, and started around S6-8.
A key stat that used to actually matter and was a key sign of skill, was players' CS/minute. In pro play, you'd see people like Froggen, and Regi getting 200+ CS within the first twenty minutes. That was INSANE. In some cases, they were getting literally every single minion that spawned in their wave AND more CS from roams, or invading the other jungle's wraiths. Back then, minions didn't auto snowball, AND were worth more gold. 2.5 waves were worth as much as a single kill. 200 CS was worth the equivalent of thirteen mother-fucking kills It was worth 4,000 gold, in a time when the passive income was less than half of what it is now. It was the difference between farmed and ahead lanes having three completed items going into teamfights, vs the shut down laners having 1-1.5 items. The power difference, the gold difference, was absolutely massive, and it fundamentally affected the way teams would rotate, what objectives they would push for, or contest (or couldn't possibly contest), and how teamfights played out, and who was targeted.
To pretend like all of that didn't even matter, just because people weren't dying left and right, and often times 7-8 of the 11 towers per side were still up is laughable at best.
xXxThanosxXx699 votesNope
I have also quitted this game for like 2 weeks ago. I don't even miss it a single bit
La Belle Sauvage6 votesI think the lack of strategy isn't the issue. The biggest issue is random strangers on a team and no ability to communicate in an effective way. Keep in mind I did not say they can't communicate
And despite my comment, I still see small strategic plays in my games, and I'm quite low on the elo pole.
I'm not trying to argue against, if the entire community were to agree (fat chance, am I tright?) And riot obliged, I'd be fine with the power reduction.
Let's say they do just, reduce the power and fix all the things the players complain about.
I'd be willing to bet my paycheck you'd still see posts about dmg creep etc.
CaptainAntiHeroz6 votes[{quoted}](name=La Belle Sauvage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iHeFMl0J,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-24T15:17:08.754+0000)
I think the lack of strategy isn't the issue. The biggest issue is random strangers on a team and no ability to communicate in an effective way. Keep in mind I did not say they can't communicate
And despite my comment, I still see small strategic plays in my games, and I'm quite low on the elo pole.
I'm not trying to argue against, if the entire community were to agree (fat chance, am I tright?) And riot obliged, I'd be fine with the power reduction.
Let's say they do just, reduce the power and fix all the things the players complain about.
I'd be willing to bet my paycheck you'd still see posts about dmg creep etc.
I disagree 
and now 
show where the gameplay teams mind is at all too well
went from hardest champ to master to SPAM SOLDIERS AND SLAP EM UP
Literally is just EQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQ no thought into his combo at all
Shifted to be "bursty" rather than damage over time that was consistent and almost methodical
Im not saying it cant exist but riot is pushing as hard as they can to drop the skill ceiling on everything to be as close to the skill floor as the physically can without giving champs autokill buttons
Eonslegacy2 votes[sg-syndra] You sure? Its pretty close.
Leetri6 votesI'd rather not go back to "the first 30 minutes don't matter at all because it's all decided by a singular team fight at 40-50 minutes, but not before the mages stall the game out for another 10-20 minutes due to instantly clearing the minions".
Tr4shB4NSYST3M10 votesTheres definitely a middleground between that and games basically decided @15 because one or 2 roles lost incredibly hard (much harder to "lose gracefully" when there are turret plates, scuttles etc that increase the snowball).
Eonslegacy2 votes1 roll lost hard, it just forced the other to lose from sheer uncarryable weight [slayer-jinx-wink]
Rαy5 votesI would shed tears of joy man, not gonna lie.
GenoXx4 votesNope lol That time has passed and Riot is in the process of transforming the game into an arcade.
Sycoblast694 votesThe answer is no. League is more concerned with growing esports viewership, which means keeping games short, explosive, and devoid of strategy. I have been frustrated for a VERY long time, but its never changing.
mack91122 votesBut average game length has remained constant through all the years of playing league ?
5050BS9 votesNo No it hasnt
did you start in S6?
Póppy Chulo16 votesCurrently you are lucky to reach a 35 minute game, and back then you were lucky to finish before 35 minutes.