Unpopular Opinion: S9 Updates worse than S5 updates

GigglesO··3 votes·1,610 views

Yea I know we all like to complain about the "Unkillable Juggernat" update/season, but I'm pretty sure I enjoyed the game more then, than now. Matter of fact I know I enjoyed them more than I enjoy the current meta. At least back then I had a chance to kill them if they were ahead. they had a clear weakness, even if you were bad at it. That weakness was called kiting, Sure It could be slow and tedius, or even sometimes you fucked up and died because you got "stat checked".

However, there is something that feels absolutely worse than getting stat checked by a slow moving kiteable champion. Thats right I think getting stat checked by a hyper mobile unkiteable champion that just nukes you the second you are on the same screen as them. Right there, that phase is probably the most frustrating thing to play into/against.

Season 5 brought us some questionable decisions, but there was still always an adc, and assassin/burst/mobility champions still had a place in the game. Games felt more comfortable because a few deaths didn't mean that you just fed your ass off.

Now I have a few more unpopular opinions, but its going to be a little bit of a read, so make sure you keep reading for maximum downvote potential.

How to fix some champions that were more recently given too much. Trynd- Remove his automatic heal on when his ulti ends. It didn't used to always be that way, you had to kinda guess between healing early and or getting fucked the second your ulti ended. It added a bit more skill expression than right click spin slow r right click.

Vayne, She seems pretty good at killing squishy targets, so how about we slow down some of her tank killing damage. She used to only get 8% max hp true damage after 3 auto attacks. Lets take it back down from 12 to 8. Tanks won't live that much longer, but hey, its a good start. I'd personally also like to see the stealth tumble ulti cooldown changes reverted.

Irelia, She either needs to have her q reset removed, or her healing removed with an actual cast time/animation on the dash. She has too much cc, mobility, damage, durability. She could easily lose some q healing, or even just lose the animation canceling so that she cant nuke you down in 1-2 seconds just because she button spammed.

Akali, This is going to sound like taking a step back, but remove her 80 energy regain on stealth cast. Make it cost something, you fucking did it to soraka's heal where you made it cost health just so she couldn't perma-spam it. Soraka and other champions have plenty of costs, don't just give it to akali for free ffs.

Talon, Yea I know this guy doesn't get complained about much, but ever since his changes hes pretty frustrating to fight he takes 2 spells to kill you at level 2 , and his q range was increased for no real reason making it so you can't even really zone him well with a ranged champion. Not just that but you have flip , flip, flip, flash, flip, ulti e q dead. My suggestion for this guy is to remove the slow on his q, and reduce its range to make him have more counter play in lane.

Zed, Yea you heard it the big ZED, you know how you make him have counterplay? Just remove his R or W dash. No this is not gutting him. There is just no reason why he should be able to nuke you with impunity to damage. There is 0 reasons why he should be able to screen wide gap close, r w q e r and just leave while you die. I mean sure it kinda hits hard, but we could put recast ranges or other things on it too. Removing Ghostblade would actually probably help too.

Kayn- Make his ability that moves through walls and grant movement speed only grant movement speed while going through a wall. Pretty simple change really. He just wouldn't be able to walk through the wall, zoom through lane and instantly fuck you. Atleast his ms would stop at the wall. He then wouldn't be point blank when he casts his knockup/slow. Would take more skill to hit it that way.

Yasuo- This is gonna sound a little strange but he can ulti before the knockup animation hits. That and remove being able to q as you ulti/come out of your ulti, and the "automatically gets placed outside of tower range" on his ultimate. Reduce his free ultimate armor pen too. He already gets double crit. He doesn't need that (especially as much as he does) as well.

Pyke- Remove grey health. Yea yea yea, I know "but that guts him". Well get good and assassinate or die.

Riven- I gave this one very little thought. Ap ratio shielding. I mean we could also, just rework black cleaver and spear of shojun and it would fix darius, fiora, garen, riven, renekton, and quite a few other champions. Honestly the item itself gives too much.

Panthion Gonna Just put this out there his new ulti is going to deal too much reliable damage, unless I'm misunderstanding its lane wide, super long hits everything in its path.

Tham- Just reduce the amount of damage he deals. Boom, ,you now can't really walk away, hes a good tank, but hes not just force feeding himself while you can't move.

Renekton- Remove shield destroy, reduce the aamount of damage he can do with tripple hit auto cancel tiamat. Yea actually just removeing animation canceling would fix quite a few champs. Irelia, Riven are two.

Neeko- Why the fuck does she have an amumu ulti, and get a shield. Remove that shit, she can ulti without it.

Zoe- Just remove her from the game, but on a more serious note. Remove the splash damage on her Q. She doesn't need big dick damage and target forgiveness.

Yi, remove his true damage, don't compensate buff.

I've got more ideas, but its tireing listing all the power creep champions keep getting.

18 Comments

Slack King2 votes

S5 was good

WoonStruck2 votes

People gunna downvote because they want their champions to stay broken tho.

How will you respond to this?

Ragnaveil1 votes

S5 juggernaut patch was the worst patch hands down. Happened pretty much out of nowhere and shook up the meta massively for both solo and pro. Why else do they avoid large patches before Worlds? To avoid another one of those patches fucking everything. Sure, the entire season can be fucked, but at least it wasn't instafucked in one patch.

GigglesO1 votes

Oh yea, thats why we had the season 8 and season 9 "its just preseason" memes.

Good joke [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Ragnaveil1 votes

Either way I agree with your post. I hated how that patch happened, but I had fun then compared to now. The only fun I get out of this game is playing Aatrox now lol, but at least the Panth rework will fix that. As for Panth ult, it seems to only do damage at the landing zone.

GigglesO1 votes

Yea its unfortunate how much they had to power creep him (by that much) just to keep him inline with other champions though. His new kit looks pretty big in terms of raw power.

TakaDama1 votes

S5 Updates were bad because of timing; they released them just prior to Worlds and pros had little to no time to practice against Darius, Skarner, and Mordekaiser. That was a major reason why the Ardent Censer meta wasnt fixed immediately years laters; they didnt want to make massive changes like they did before.

As for the changes, a lot of them miss the mark:

Tryn - The complaints I see are on his passive crit chance and him relying on crits in trades. This to me is simple to fix: give him 100% crit chance at max rage, and 0% crit chance until then. This gives his opponent a clear idea of when he is about to go ham, and actually provides a bit of tension with Q's active heal.

Zed - The dashes are what make Zed, well, Zed, but the bigger issue is that there is little incentive for him not to use one or two of the dashes. I would either add a debuff of some kind to the dash so that predicting his dash feels more rewarding, or have a successful dash pop all shadow clones but also give Zed stealth of some kind for a very short duration.

Yasuo - This one is a bit more tricky for me to tackle as while the Ult is what I have the most issue with, its because CCing him during his ult doesnt prevent the damage last I checked ... in fact it pops it sooner. If each of the three strikes dealt a separate amount of damage, I would feel better about stunning Yasuo out of his ult.

Riven (aka Spear of Shojin/Black Cleaver) - Just give Spear a more tanky build path; Phage is the important part of Black Cleaver for Darius, and he could use Trinity Force just as well depending on matchup.

Pyke - Reduce gray health, but more importantly revert the buff on Your Cut or just half the amount of gold provided by it. One good ult by Pyke and his team gets a massive gold lead.

GigglesO1 votes

What I was going for was removing some of the extra stuff that they either have, or have acquired over the years. Sometimes even just removing some of the extra shit theyve gotten would put them in a better place to play against/balance. They don't need alot of the extras they have. Like in trynds case its just a skill check removal when he auto heals.

TakaDama1 votes

The idea I get, but the execution is off.

For Tryndamere he seriously just needs to stop feeling like a slot machine prior to any crit itemization. That alone would give him a better skill check than reducing or removing his heal (which is 1000 gold to item check currently).

Zed needs to be punished harder for bad dash choices.

Yasuo ... honestly not too worried about Yasuo outside of his Ult dealing its damage all at once. Actually tend to eat Yasuos with KDA Wheaties.

Pyke just generates too much gold now; they already gutted his solo lane viability so while he could still 1v1 solo laners, he couldnt do much for wave clear or defensive itemization.

Spear of Shojin, again, needs a tankier build path and that's it. It and the version of essence reaver before it has brought a lot champions out of obscurity. Remember when the Renekton bar was obsolete? That was before Essence Reaver was reworked the first time. Or how about top lane Shyvana? Riven, Jax, Yi, etc. should never be used as a measuring stick for items because they get good with items in general. Jax and Yi broke Sated Devourer and Guinsoo's Rageblade, possibly even Feral Flare/Wriggle's Lantern (though that mat have been more of Udyr's fault), and Riiven can pretty much build any AD assassin or bruiser item and still do well.

Ragnaveil1 votes

It just needs to not give the cdr on hit shit. It causes a ton of abuse situations if its good. So far Ren and Jax are the ones abusing it (Riven did for a time but shes got other options)

TakaDama1 votes

Renekton only abuses it because his W counts as two to three auto attacks and stuns the target.

Shyvana top (which does exist in the Korean meta from what I gather) does the same with her Q once she has Spear, but it isnt as oppressive I guess because her kit is limited in CC, sustain, and mobility compared to Renekton.

Pantheon post-rework might be similar as his Empowered W also counts as three hits and his ult grants him max stacks, but we'll see how that goes.

Jax has an auto-reset himself with W, highly versatile mobility with Q, an attack speed steroid passive, and an AoE stun with E. Not to mention the health is actually good with him because of passive armor and magic resist from ult.

Not a lot of champions compare to that; Yi comes to mind but he trades CC and resists for sustain and true damage. But in general it is because Renekton and Jax have versatile kits and a way to cheese the effectiveness of Spear's passive that makes the item so oppressive on them.

Ragnaveil1 votes

No champions in the game have been balanced around an item like this existing. Until that happens, it shouldn't exist.

TakaDama1 votes

Nice catch 22: so are you saying we should go back to Madred's Bloodrazor instead of Blade of the Ruined King? Maybe get rid of Unique passives, especially named ones, and go back to the League of Cleavers/Warmogs/Sunfire? Champions werent balanced around them, so that applies right?

While I agree some items should be removed or changed because their limited but powertul niche makes them overpowered (namely Innervating Locket on low cooldown champions like Udyr), the fact Spear has opened up more opportinities for champions with auto-attack resets should be an indicator that the overloaded kits themselves need to be addressed.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Aatrox E shouldn't be a auto reset then, because you're saying any auto attack resets in kits makes the kit overloaded (therefore abusing the item)

TakaDama1 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox E shouldn't be a auto reset then, because you're saying any auto attack resets in kits makes the kit overloaded (therefore abusing the item)

Uh no ... overloaded kit means having an extremely versatile kit with sustain, mobility, immobilizing or displacement CC, and maybe even an assortment of damage dealt or resistances. Pre-rework Irelia is the posterchild for a champion with a overloaded kit, which is part of the reason she was nerfed so much prior to being reworked, which, while she is still overloaded, has a bit more skill expression possible.

Like I mentioned before, top lane Shyvana uses Spear with her Q, which is similar to Renekton using it with his W. The big difference is that Renekton has a stun, a two-part dash that shreds armor, and an AoE heal without itemization, meaning a Renekton only needs Spear to do work but still gets better with other items.

Not to mention several other champions have auto resets: Darius W, Garen Q, Wukong Q, Mundo's Masochism, Trundle Q, Nasus Q, Vi E, Rengar Q, Volibear Q, and Yorick Q off the top my head. Oh, and Illaoi W, but I wont argue that the item complicates her despite her lack of mobility and CC simple because her W and ult are closely tied together anyhow.

GigglesO1 votes

removing his automatic heal on ulitmate*

Its a skill check rather than a get out of jail free just because I mannaged to spin at the last second and my r auto healed me. Atleast he could fuck up.

as for spear of shojun Riot season 2-3 "We are removing atmas because damage defense items don't work well" Also riot, heres this cool spear thing that gives a shit ton of stats, super exciting cdr when you ulti, and yep, that about sums up this item.

TakaDama1 votes

Well aware of what you said about tryn and it is still ignoring the issue of him getting lucky with a few crits without crit itemization. Oh he heals after R? Grievous wounds. And him healing after R ends is not to stop him from using lifesteal crits to heal before then, or Q to heal while he has the rage to do so.

Funny you mention Atma's and Spear like you just did, because both were at one point being worked on in season 7 or 8. I believe they renamed Atma's from Impaler to Reckoner and built out of health instead of armor, but the effect was still reminiscent. Spear, however, was entirely different and granted the AD equivalent of Fizz's current passive. Pretty sure they only released it as it is now because Essence Reaver, a pure damage item, no longer has that same passive after another rework.

GigglesO1 votes

Crit lotto wouldn't matter so much if armor was worth a damn.

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