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Let's talk about Hecarim

Leggie··6 votes·1,992 views

I've played Hec since his release day, and if anyone ever asks me the generic "Who's your favorite champion" question, I always answer with Hecarim.

Ever since his release, he's been in a weird spot in terms of balance. In Season 2 he had no real purpose as a champion, and come Season 3 the only reason he functioned was because of Elder Lizard and Iceborn Gauntlet combined with his intense healing/scaling during the late game.

Hecarim's kit is designed in a way that pigeonholes him into building damage items before tank items, and in this design lies the problem with him. Hecarim's Q has pretty much no purpose unless you've got damage, if you decide to build like a pure tank then it's a useless ability. This was fine before his W got nerfed, as it healed him enough to where it didn't really matter if he had tank stats, but now that his W barely feels like it does anything he's incredibly easy to kill during the phase of Lizard + Gauntlet + Boots. It's not until you have at least a Randuins/Visage that he feels like how he should, but even then he has problems.

I don't really know what it would take to fix him, but he definitely has problems. He doesn't have the cc or base damage to justify building like a pure tank, but his W doesn't heal him enough to make building damage items as effective as they should be. His kit is counterproductive, and his build isn't very enjoyable. He needs so many items to function that he feels like he should be a laner, but that's obviously not functional either.

Riot response would be nice.

28 Comments

Xtremey4 votes

I definitely agree. Most of my gams with hec i have to stay farming even after laning phase is over just to stay alive in teamfights. He is just awkward in that one point of early/mid game.

Leggie2 votes

Bump

apuig2 votes

I don't mean any disrespect but you sound like you don't know how to play him.

OxBaker1 votes

That was a very informational and well thought out post. Thanks for contributing!

apuig1 votes

K you got me, HEC has insane mobility due to his itemization and concept. He even scales AD with movement speed. I generally play him with 3 quints of movements speed and get mobility boots on him. He's all over the map and have 2 cc's in the form of his E and R which means he can peel for carries very good. His ulti also lets him escape and mass fear the enemy team. With Elder Lizard his camp clear time is ridiculous and his dps from q does insane damage. After elder lizard he can simply build tanky as he doesn't need any more AD. Against AD he can go with Iceborn Gauntlet which helps him chase even more with the slow and then Randuins to the same effect. Against AP he can run spirit visage which helps his W and can pretty much outsustain any jungler. His gans post 6 are insanely good as he can take a champion out of his turret with his fear and escape with relative ease. Run ghost and you will be ok. Got fed? throw a trinity force on him and now he's really OP.

Before the nerf on his ulti (which allowed him do deal AP damage where he landed) and before the nerfs on elder lizard he was one of the greates junglers available. Hope you get my idea now.

Leggie2 votes

I don't mean any disrespect but you sound like you don't know how to play him.

No disrespect taken, however confusion is definitely taken.

He's designed as a champion meant to go into the middle of the fray, so how in the world is what I've said incorrect?

apuig1 votes

please refer to my comment below, let me know what you think

Leggie1 votes

please refer to my comment below, let me know what you think

You simply described how hecarim is played, which anyone who's used him knows. I'm not sure why you're referring me to the post.

apuig1 votes

nevermind...but if you consider Heca's kit bad and think he has no purpose as a champ you are obviously clueless.

Rinky Dinky3 votes

nevermind...but if you consider Heca's kit bad and think he has no purpose as a champ you are obviously clueless.

can you read?

kunkudunk2 votes

He has been left at the way side to be sure. I think riot is afraid to buff him since when he was strong he wasn't just strong, he was also really fast and so you couldn't really stop him. Still, unless the preseason changes really help him, I could see him being fine with a few minor base stats buffs so he isn't as squishy early game. Would put less pressure on him to not play near perfect to stay useful with gold.

slim charles1 votes

Hec is a god in the right hands. He snowballs so damn hard. Try building triforce instead of iceborn (unless things like an all ad team happen) and trying maxing e second. Hec's my main and now he isn't really a lategame champ anymore. hes more of a mid-late champ where carries don't have full build yet. people say he has to farm to be useful but he has rammus like mobility he can just pressure lanes so hard.

OxBaker1 votes

Totally agree. Would love to play him more but champs like Mao and Ali do around the same damage but can tank better so why would I pick Hec? Especially after SotEL is removed next season.

Luigi Tortellini1 votes

I'll agree with you that his W sucks, but that's why you max it last. Hecarim is very strong though. Try building a lot of damage and abusing your early ganks with E + ghost. His passive is actually very good after the buffs. My typical build is lizard, trinity, swift boots (mercs or tabis if really needed) with furor, then a ghostblade. No one can run away from you and the damage you do is absurd. I then finish off with Randuins and Visage so I don't die instantly, and at full build I replace Lizard with cleaver.

Play like an Assassin in teamfights, your ult is absurd, it lets you completely bypass the frontline to reach the carries, or if you didn't need your ult to approach it lets you escape unscathed after the job is done.

Lategame this play style is a little difficult. You still kill carries almost instantly but you fail to do so then they can kill you quickly because they're carries. If you keep getting screwed by their support no problem, Hecarim is very good at peeling and your lategame cleaver will let you and your own carry kill the enemy divers very quickly.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

I love Heca, he's currently my most played jungler in ranked. I agree with pretty much everything what the OP said. His Q really screams "build damage or I'm useless", while his natural bulk doesn't allow it (opposite of irelia: Trinity Force? Indestructable!).

I belive his W has to be replaced by a new ability, after the nerf it's just a long cooldown poor heal, which is more of a wasted skillslot than it helps.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Rampage (current): RANGE: 350 COST: 24 / 26 / 28 / 30 / 32 MANA COOLDOWN: 4 ACTIVE: Hecarim cleaves nearby enemies, dealing physical damage (66% damage against minions and monsters). PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (+ 60% bonus AD) If Hecarim damages at least one enemy unit with this attack, he gains a stack of Rampage for 8 seconds, reducing the base cooldown of this ability by 1 second. This effect can stack up to 2 times.

Rampage (suggested):

  • Rampage heals Hecarim for 0.4 BONUS AD if a champion is being hit.

Spirit of Dread (current): ~~ ACTIVE: Hecarim surrounds himself with the spirit of dread for 4 seconds, dealing magic damage per second to all enemies within its reach. MAGIC DAMAGE PER SECOND: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+ 20% AP) MAX DAMAGE: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+ 80% AP) Hecarim is healed for 20% of the damage dealt by any source to enemies within the area (capped against minions or monsters). CAPPED VALUE: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 ~~

Spirit of Dread (new): ACTIVE: Hecarim surrounds himself with the spirit of dread for 3 / 3 / 4 / 4 / 5 seconds: Hecarim steels 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 % movement speed from enemies who attack him. Enemies who remain in the range of Spirit of Dread as it runs out get feared for 1 second. Minions and monsters also get feared for 2 seconds upon activation.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

The removal of Force of Nature screwed Hecarim. It was the perfect item for him. Massive Magic Resist, a lot of movement speed. Good health regeneration.

I feel like Hecarim was designed with this item in mind. Now that it is gone he's lackluster in certain aspects.

Leggie1 votes

bump

Kingsgrave1 votes

Switching his passive to Total MS to AD instead of Bonus MS to AD while also switching his Q from Bonus AD scaling to Total AD scaling might actually help him out quite a bit. The duration of E needs to be longer and the CD shorter, and possibly also making it Total AD instead of Bonus AD could be another thing to help him out.

Right now he needs damage but has no room for it if he needs to be the tank.

CataclysmCrash1 votes

As someone who has also played Hec since release and have used him to climb from silver to plat twice I don't agree that his build isn't fun or that he can't top lane. His end game build is one of the most effective combinations of mobility, durability and damage I've ever seen in a bruiser ( I also enjoy WW for this reason). Too durable/quick to focus, too much damage to ignore, too much speed to escape.

The purpose of W isn't to sustain Hecarim in a 1 v 1 it's to make him hard to kill in teamfights - where his kit isn't counter productive at all. I don't see any problem with full build Hecarim because full build Hecarim is a God. If you're getting focused then fine, buy a GA as a 6th item and watch your allies punish the enemy for focusing a champ with Randies/SV/GA and his W healing him the whole time.

Though I can't tell you how many times I've been frustrated by whining teammates questioning why I didn't rush tank when that simply isn't feasible on Hecarim. Full tank Hecarim is pointless, you don't have the damage or the CC to warrant a reason to be focused in the first place - may as well just play Vi who has become everything Hecarim is but better.

Also, this is a really shitty time to talk about Hecarim right before the most massive jungle changes in the history of the game. The different smites and spawn times are going to be a huge boon to the weak early Hecarim.

If we're talking about shit before that, then lower the mana costs on W and E and fix the way knockback works with E and fix the damn particle effects on his Halloween skin.

Leggie1 votes

As someone who has also played Hec since release and have used him to climb from silver to plat twice I don't agree that his build isn't fun or that he can't top lane. His end game build is one of the most effective combinations of mobility, durability and damage I've ever seen in a bruiser ( I also enjoy WW for this reason). Too durable/quick to focus, too much damage to ignore, too much speed to escape.

The purpose of W isn't to sustain Hecarim in a 1 v 1 it's to make him hard to kill in teamfights - where his kit isn't counter productive at all. I don't see any problem with full build Hecarim because full build Hecarim is a God. If you're getting focused then fine, buy a GA as a 6th item and watch your allies punish the enemy for focusing a champ with Randies/SV/GA and his W healing him the whole time.

Though I can't tell you how many times I've been frustrated by whining teammates questioning why I didn't rush tank when that simply isn't feasible on Hecarim. Full tank Hecarim is pointless, you don't have the damage or the CC to warrant a reason to be focused in the first place - may as well just play Vi who has become everything Hecarim is but better.

Also, this is a really shitty time to talk about Hecarim right before the most massive jungle changes in the history of the game. The different smites and spawn times are going to be a huge boon to the weak early Hecarim.

If we're talking about shit before that, then lower the mana costs on W and E and fix the way knockback works with E and fix the damn particle effects on his Halloween skin.

You misunderstood what I meant regarding his build not being fun.

The unfun nature of Hec's build comes in the simple price of it. When you're full he's crazy fun, which is why he's my favorite champion; I have fun with him.

The problem is that in the jungle it's generally not fun to build a shitton of expensive items as it takes you ten thousand years to get to any of them. That's all I meany by that statement.

CataclysmCrash1 votes

You misunderstood what I meant regarding his build not being fun.

The unfun nature of Hec's build comes in the simple price of it. When you're full he's crazy fun, which is why he's my favorite champion; I have fun with him.

The problem is that in the jungle it's generally not fun to build a shitton of expensive items as it takes you ten thousand years to get to any of them. That's all I meany by that statement.

The thing about Hecarim is that he practically functions like a FF jungler that occasionally opportunist ganks. He isn't looking to invade, he's too weak to solo drag, he just wants as much gold as fast as possible.

I personally like this build curve- boots1 SOTL boots 2 Phage Giants Belt Trinity Randuins Spirit Visage (Ghost Blade/GA/BC) The combination of Lizard Elder and Phage give the satisfaction of always being one step ahead of the guy running from you. Trinity is when you really start making an impact Randies and SV is when you start feeling unkillable Ghost Blade is always fun and gives Hecarim that lethal backdoor feel

When Hecarim feels shitty is when he falls behind, obviously. He's so fragile this often takes you right out of the game. Champs like Shyv and Vi have abilities that take them right into the enemy team and then benefit from free stats or shields to tank it out. They can afford to build full tank when they fall behind because their kits render them viable threats - Hecarim can't.

However, I don't want to homogenize Hecarim. I actually like him on the more lethal end of Bruisers at the sacrifice of some durability.

Jamatrix6661 votes

Hecarim, while not in my "Top Viable Picks" list, is definitely in my "Top Most Fun Champions to Play" list. It just feels so awesome to ult 3 or more enemy champion and see your team go in while the enemy team are feared in chaos... One of the most satisfying moments in my League of Legends experience is to win a fight because of a well placed Hecarim ult + peeling for your team.

That being said, it is true that he has his problems. Enough to make him un-viable to the eyes of many. He's a risky pick, since he rely on farming and farming and farming a lot to perform in the late game. Don't get me wrong, his late game (with the right items and the right actions and decisions) can lead a team to victory, thanks to his ult that can turn the tide of an important team fight and his late game toughness due to his W.

However, his early game can be rough against a lot of the most mainstream junglers (Khazix, Lee Sin, Elise). Their ganking ability is a bit stronger, they are safer and don't rely on farming as much, since their kit itself own powerful tools (Burst, insane mobility, slows, etc.) Hecarim needs at least a Spirit of the Elder Lizard to start making a difference in terms of damages. Then his next item is crucial for his mid/late game performance. For instance, if he gets his Trinity Force at a respectable time, his chances of helping his team will increase A LOT. But if he didn't have time to farm enough or got counter jungled, his kit and scaling won't save him. Unlike the other junglers I mentioned before, because they can still make a huge difference in team fights/ganks without this precious items in time.

TL;DR Hecarim is a risky pick because of his power curve and power spike relying on the acquisition of his second and third items within an acceptable time in the game, unlike many other junglers. I suggest removing the damage reduction on his Q against minions and monsters, or tweaking it to 80% damage instead of 66%. And/or increasing the healing cap of his W against monsters and minions to 80/110/140/170/200 from 60/90/120/150/180. These changes would slightly increase his farming phase of the early game, giving him a little bit more chance on his side to get this crucial second item.

Leggie1 votes

bump

Leggie1 votes

Bump

Leggie1 votes

Bump

KidSpectre1 votes

I just picked him up recently. I like him as he is. One observation I made is that you don't need to get kills in ganks to be successful. Sometimes just slamming into them, getting off a few Qs, and leaving is enough to swing the lane. Always be moving. Speed is king with Hecarim. Not many junglers can make rotations as fast as he can.

I tend to build more damage than you typically see on Hecarim. For example, I usually take Maw of Malmortius over the more popular SV or Banshee's. This keeps my damage relevant without sacrificing too much durability. That said, I also try not to face tank entire fights. One thing Heca does better than anyone is flank. After the engage, I go for the carries, take as much damage as possible, but then peace out after I drop my damage. I then use my huge speed to wrap around and reenter the fight from another angle with another round of cc. This works especially well if you don't open with your ultimate, as then you can dive in over walls.

I don't know how optimal it is, but that's how I play Heca.

Leggie1 votes

bump

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