Why can Zoe redirect her Q while stunned?

Fisher No Chains·Jun 13, 2018·74 votes·17,018 views

Just asking, it makes zero sense. I died because she Q'd me after I STUNNED her.

Ah, for some reason it happens during stasis too.

109 Comments

specter424Jun 13, 201852 votes

zoe was made by the same guy that made yasuo

IxtaliKingJun 14, 20182 votes

I really don't know why this made me laugh so much xD

GayFluffyUnicornJun 15, 20181 votes

And yasuo can do the same exact shit. I remember very well that yasuo who got stunned by my camille E and AFTER he already got stunned still shot his tornado. Some champions can queue their abilities and they will just fire regardless if stunned BEFORE they use anything and other champs like jax get completely cancel'd even if they used it before. Like it was beautiful to watch in slow mo. If he had cast his tornado before the stun he would have cancel'd my E jump mid flight or while i was charging from the wall (it was basically melee range maybe 250 range from the wall to reach yasuo) but instead i jump onto him, hit, stun AND THEN the tornado got fired off regardless, knock up into ult into free 1k dmg and i died. Some champs have these handholding mechanics and some don't idk.

Arcanine19Jun 13, 201825 votes

As much as I like playing zoe I have to agree with this. Like try to play aurelion sol for example... If you get stunned you lose your stars (not only W the passive too) for the duration and it really sucks on him so why can zoe do this

Morgy MorgyJun 13, 201820 votes

why does zoe even exist? what i hate most is how she has an extremely powerful cc ability that can be shot through fog of war, and late game, it can actually lock down every single person one by one. that's not fucking okay. raise the cooldown PLEASE.

Pika FoxJun 13, 20187 votes

{quoted}

why does zoe even exist? what i hate most is how she has an extremely powerful cc ability that can be shot through fog of war, and late game, it can actually lock down every single person one by one. that's not fucking okay. raise the cooldown PLEASE.

Sleep is the single weakest hard CC in the game. Its delayed and breaks on damage.

0DESTROYERZ0Jun 13, 201812 votes

you forgot it amplifies the first hit taken :^)

Pika FoxJun 13, 201810 votes

{quoted}

you forgot it amplifies the first hit taken :^)

You said she had an extremely powerful CC. Thats part of the benefit she gets because her CC is inherently bad compared to all other hard CC.

Displacement > Stun > Root/Snare > Sleep

0DESTROYERZ0Jun 13, 20186 votes

thats your opinion i guess

Pika FoxJun 13, 20189 votes

{quoted}

thats your opinion i guess

Its not an opinion, its a literal fact. All other hard CC applies instantly and stays its duration. Sleep applies after a delay and stops on champ damage. Its inferior in every way on its own, which is why zoe gets other benefits tacked onto it.

DanjengJun 13, 201810 votes

Except that it has its range amplified through terrain, is idiot proof with the bonus of leaving a zone behind if the Zoe somehow misses the skillshot, and has a slow on hit, before the sleep even applies, for a total 4 seconds of CC: 2 seconds of slows, and 2 seconds of sleep.

Its not an opinion, its a literal fact.

I guess you're totally right Pika Fox. Everybody who disagrees with you is wrong, you're objectively right and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid. Yeah, Zoe's sleepy bubble is the weakest CC in the game I guess. That's why everybody praises how fun it is to play against.

ArakadiaJun 14, 20183 votes

I guess you're totally right Pika Fox. Everybody who disagrees with you is wrong, you're objectively right and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid.

I agree with you but there is no need to escalate Pika Fox's argument and put words in their mouth. They said it is fact, which it isn't, but they did not say everyone who disagrees is stupid and that they are objectively right. They didn't even suggest it was fun to play against.

Votable JesterJun 14, 20184 votes

It is objectively correct though that sleep (not drowsy, but sleep) is objectively the weakest cc. If you take damage out of the equation, which makes sense since Fid's Q is considered strong cc while a Xerath W is not considered strong cc, sleep is just a stun that is often cut short.

The guy's initial statement was that sleep is the worst cc in the game, not sleepy trouble bubble.

Sexy Jack RabbitJun 14, 20183 votes

Except that he's kind of right from an objective point of view.

Zoe's Sleepy trouble Bubble is the only CC in the game that can literally last 0.1 seconds without ANY CC reduction. That being if a spell or tick of damage is applied immediately after the sleep portion of the spell is proc'd, the Hard CC portion of the spell is cleansed/broken.

As far as CC goes it is the weakest in the game due to it's potential of having the shortest duration, making it effectively useless.

Zoe's Sleepy Trouble Bubble is not a weak spell by any means, applying Damage Amplification, Acting as a Zoning Tool and having adjustable range, but SPECIALLY as a form of crowd control it is technically the weakest in the game due to it's unique rules.

It's one of the main reasons why Ana's Sleep in Overwatch takes up such a small portion of her power budget.

As besides it's long duration, the CC is effectively useless due to the rules surrounding it.

ArakadiaJun 14, 20183 votes

"Thats your opinion I guess as I proceed to downvote you for your opinion".

Malix FarwinJun 13, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i6A4sQi7,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-13T19:13:51.823+0000)

You said she had an extremely powerful CC. Thats part of the benefit she gets because her CC is inherently bad compared to all other hard CC.

Displacement > Stun > Root/Snare > Sleep

Wasting your time, what started as something that might of been useful feedback turned into a hate Zoe Circle Jerk thread. Sadly what that means for the OP is that Riot will ignore it.

HibekiJun 14, 20182 votes

Well no, Sleep is immensely powerful as It can be used as an ambush setup as the longest CC in the game, or double your damage instead.

Quite possibly the best CC in the game. Versatile and the best in both worlds.

A Latte DeathsJun 13, 20183 votes

This is correct. I don't know why you're being downvoted.

Pika FoxJun 14, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Latte Trouble,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i6A4sQi7,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2018-06-13T20:11:36.448+0000)

This is correct. I don't know why you're being downvoted.

Anti zoe circle jerk and people dont comprehend that the CC is just the drowsy and sleep effect. So sleep is a delayed hard CC that breaks on any hit.

The bonus damage, trap, and range through terrain arent a part of sleep, theyre the benefits she specifically has on it because its inherently weak.

Skeletons GraveJun 14, 20181 votes

Sleep is the single weakest hard CC in the game. Its delayed and breaks on damage.

completely untrue. Being delayed makes it one of the strongest cc in the game. If zoe's sleep was instant cc then she wouldnt have time to get a full range Q on you after she uses it and the duration of the cc would be reduced. But because its delayed she has enough time to literally watch you, wait for it to proc, then start her q and get a max distance hit on you. Its power increases with the more team mates she has around. If jungler comes for a gank and she lands sleep, the jungler can save his gap closer and just walk up for the gank.

In a team stand off where both teams are waiting for the fight to start, landing a sleep on a good target is the best engage in the game. You know the target will be cc'd in a few seconds and have time to set up for it. The enemy team cant break the cc unless they have item 3222 so they are forced to either abandon that player or they are forced to fight.

Think about malphite ult. Its a great engage tool but by the time your team mates react to it and close in, the knockup is over. So having an engage that is (1) safe/long range (2) has a short cooldown and (3) is delayed but just as effective makes her cc one of the best.

Dont forget the target is slowed to a crawl so they cant run to far. It also stays on the ground for an eternity (very unlike most hard cc).

Pika FoxJun 14, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skeletons Grave,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i6A4sQi7,comment-id=000600000004,timestamp=2018-06-14T16:04:14.226+0000)

completely untrue. Being delayed makes it one of the strongest cc in the game. If zoe's sleep was instant cc then she wouldnt have time to get a full range Q on you after she uses it and the duration of the cc would be reduced. But because its delayed she has enough time to literally watch you, wait for it to proc, then start her q and get a max distance hit on you. Its power increases with the more team mates she has around. If jungler comes for a gank and she lands sleep, the jungler can save his gap closer and just walk up for the gank.

In a team stand off where both teams are waiting for the fight to start, landing a sleep on a good target is the best engage in the game. You know the target will be cc'd in a few seconds and have time to set up for it. The enemy team cant break the cc unless they have so they are forced to either abandon that player or they are forced to fight.

Think about malphite ult. Its a great engage tool but by the time your team mates react to it and close in, the knockup is over. So having an engage that is (1) safe/long range (2) has a short cooldown and (3) is delayed but just as effective makes her cc one of the best.

Dont forget the target is slowed to a crawl so they cant run to far. It also stays on the ground for an eternity (very unlike most hard cc).

Her kit =/= sleep. Arguing "but it gives her time to Q" has nothing to do with sleep on its own.

0DESTROYERZ0Jun 14, 20181 votes

making someone drowsy can bait out a flash, but also then give your team time to capitalize. If you are a player that is any good you wouldn't just break sleep with an auto attack or something weak

Pika FoxJun 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

making someone drowsy can bait out a flash, but also then give your team time to capitalize. If you are a player that is any good you wouldn't just break sleep with an auto attack or something weak

You can bait a flash with literally any projectile CC.

The fact that it breaks at all on damage is what makes it weak. Doesnt matter what you use, the fact that the hard CC is removed upon taking damage inherently makes it weak.

0DESTROYERZ0Jun 15, 20181 votes

on paper your making it sound very weak, but if you think about it, it really isnt that weak. but again each to their own opinion

Pika FoxJun 15, 20181 votes

Because, again, it is by default the weakest hard CC in the game. All those extra bonuses she gets is BECAUSE its far weaker a CC with numerous negatives built into it. Literally any knockup/stun/snare/fear is immediately better than drowsy+sleep. Because zoe paid for her power in her CC, her CC gets other benefits. (The traveling through walls boon is likely moreso because its base range is garbage and its a limited/conditional boon)

ArakadiaJun 14, 20181 votes

What do you mean she can lock down every single person one by one?

A Latte DeathsJun 14, 20182 votes

Maybe they don't realize that riot removed the cdr refund on hit. A lot of boards users tend to complain without fact checking.

SteelflameJun 13, 201811 votes

The only problem I have with Zoe's sleep is that it plays it's animation in the fog of war for her. Meaning that there is no way to "outplay" the sleep Q by being unpredictable in the fog with those 2 seconds, she knows exactly where you are anyway.

abca98Jun 13, 20187 votes

Because CertainlyT only creates special champions, with special features, for special people.

SwiftKitten88Jun 13, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Because CertainlyT only creates special champions, with special features, for special people.

that reminds me of this https://youtu.be/pfFRv_1XdDM?t=44

warning.. this video can be offensive.. and its does not support my views.. but... its still funny

HibekiJun 13, 20185 votes

Only thing that prevents her from recasting Q is death

RyrynounetJun 13, 20183 votes

Wait it will be fixed in the "bugfix" section ;)

Malix FarwinJun 13, 20184 votes

All double activation abilities work that way, they all can be reactivated while stunned. One example i can think of is Swain, if you land Nevermore you can still pull them towards you even if you are stunned.

SwiftKitten88Jun 13, 201836 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i6A4sQi7,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-13T17:33:11.662+0000)

All double activation abilities work that way, they all can be reactivated while stunned. One example i can think of is Swain, if you land Nevermore you can still pull them towards you even if you are stunned.

umm? no

Anivia Q Ziggs W Lux E NONE of these can be reactivated while stunned..

And A Real HieroJun 13, 201819 votes

Velkoz Q

Anu3isIIJun 13, 201815 votes

Leblanc W AurelionSol Q Gragas Q Thresh Q

(Just to add more examples)

MordepoolJun 14, 20183 votes

Mordekaiser might actually be considered a Champion if that were the case.

It's Invisible Power on Zoe's Kit and it needs to be stripped away

Leto GTJun 13, 20186 votes

Anivia R is canceled upon stun it's even worse lol.

Ayame IsakiJun 13, 20183 votes

With Janna's Q, if you get stunned, you can't activate the second cast to release the tornado early until the stun ends. I am surprised Zoe's Q doesn't work the same.

VvVVvVJun 13, 20182 votes

Well I dont play Orin to know this answer but can a Orin redirect his ult while stunned? If the answer is no then i dont see why Zoe should be allowed on a normal ability.

Fisher No ChainsJun 13, 20188 votes

No, he can’t.

five oh tree Jun 13, 20183 votes

That's probably because he has to use a dash ability to redirect it.

SpecterVonBarenJun 13, 20181 votes

Might just be because it's essentially her only damage ability.

KFCeytronJun 13, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Might just be because it's essentially her only damage ability.

Her passive adds damage to her next auto after using any ability for some base damage and 25% AP, her W adds bubbles that hit nearby targets automatically for base damage and 40% AP as well as proccing her passive so she doesn't have to auto, her E has base damage and 40% (or 80%) AP, and her R doesn't have any damage itself but it boosts Q damage and it procs her passive.

Literally everything she does has damage attached to it. When you say it's her only damage, do you perhaps mean that it's her highest damage spell?

remakoroJun 13, 20182 votes

How about letting Teemo AA when he is dead then? Thats like his only damage ability. Forget about his Q and shrooms.

Like you forgot about build-in lich bane for Zoe, dmg on her E and something similar to Ahri's spirits when she cast her W. Totally no other damaging abilities.

How about letting Zilean Q you when no one even picked him? I mean thats really his ONLY damaging ability. This time for real. Only one. So you gotta give him some love. Right?

SpecterVonBarenJun 13, 20184 votes

Teemo has his Q and ult for damage abilities. Zilean is a support, he can do good damage but he works even without it because he's more about his utility.

And I don't remember saying I was for or against her being able to use her Q while stunned, all I've done is explain a possible rationale for it.

remakoroJun 14, 20182 votes

And i brought up couple of champions in dire need of preferential treatment. Nothing more.

There might be some logic behind her Q interacting with stasis and disables the way it does... But it being sole her sole offensive ability hardly can be that. Cuz she has 3 of them + passive.

To be honest... Judging by how rito does things i cant shake off this feeling that they simply forgot or some kind of weird spaghetti like thing got in the way... I just cant believe that this is really intentional and not some kind of camouflaged fuck up.

Votable JesterJun 14, 20182 votes

Pretty sure it is intentional, and there are more reasons to do it for her.

First, as said, it is almost all her damage, minimum 50% of her damage. Second, it is a double cast ability, meaning that if it was stopped by that, there would be a massive window to prevent her from using her main source of damage. Third it has no cc attached, so it isn't going to prevent the enemy from taking advantage of her being stunned unless they would die from that very attack (which she initially cast before the stun).

I can't think of a single other ability that fits those criteria. Also if they did make her Q interruptible, they'd probably buff her passive and/or W to make up for her lost skirmish potential (just saying this to let you know what the result of a "fix" would likely be).

ArakadiaJun 14, 20181 votes

Can she really activate her Q during stasis? I don't believe that.