Can they take % less damage from AoE please? Or scale with his resistances? He is such a cool champion but his Mist Walkers are just too squishy for a champ that builds almost full tank. The enemy should fear the Mist, not auto them once or press Q and they're gone.
woodvsmurph5 votesJust... no. They easily hide in the minion wave. A darius q or renekton q SHOULD delete them, instead, it does half their hp or LESS. They deal a crap ton of damage. If anything, yorick's kit is overloaded. %damage, free aa worth of damage or more every time mistwalkers hit enemy. Q deals bonus damage AND sustains and you have grasp proc too probably. Ult deals high %hp damage to enemy yorick hits, spawns endless waves of mistwalkers and deals massive tower damage. Oh, and ult deals %hp MAGIC DAMAGE while yorick deals physical damage. This means his opponents cannot really itemize against the magic damage early because then yorick and mistwalkers deal more damage. If anything, he needs some sustain or damage removed from his kit - and mistwalkers need to be targetable - if they stand next to a minion because they are so small, you basically have to kill the minion first. Yorick is literally a nightmare for darius if played properly.
yorick's kit is overloaded
???
%damage
Situational and conditional.
free aa worth of damage or more every time mistwalkers hit enemy
Hardly since mist walkers deal 30% ad of yorick. Especially when you take into consideration that they are fragile.
Q deals bonus damage AND sustains
True but the sustain is flat.
Ult deals high %hp damage to enemy yorick hits
Well he needs it, since he is juggernaut.
spawns endless waves of mistwalkers
No? He can have at max 4 and even then once they are killed they are gonna take some time to summon 3 new ones.
mistwalkers need to be targetable
They are??
woodvsmurph1 votes% damage - exists as long as yorick ult exists. As long as yorick ult exists, if you cannot burst him, you cannot fight him because his mistwalkers, %hp damage, and crazy sustain (without building any lifesteal) will probably kill you before you kill him in an extended trade. That's NOT situational nearly as much as you make it sound. Because he can trap you in place and slow you to sick his mistwalkers on you at any time, you have to factor that into any trade you do vs him even if he isn't using ult AT THE MOMENT - so long as it is up. It's like thresh or blitz hook - the threat alone is a major factor you must consider.
Walkers deal 30% of yorick's ad. 30%*4= 120%. More than a full aa worth of damage - for free - even if yorick himself is nowhere near you. They also can chase you, "hide" next to a minion close enough to be untargetable - forcing you to flee (instead of trade damage back on yorick) in order to separate them from a minion so you can actually click on them.
"Fragile". 2+ aoe abilities needed to kill them? I can kill malz voidlings with a single darius or renekton q. Die to one aa compared to 2 for zyra plants sure, but that's zyra's entire basic ability kit - yorick has plenty of damage besides mistwalkers. Plus, we already noted how difficult it can be to properly target the walkers in the midst of a minion wave. And... they are constantly replenished for the duration of yorick ult - making it a fruitless task to kill them off during this time.
Ult needs high %hp damage? No. Illaoi ult doesn't deal %hp damage. Renekton ult doesn't deal %hp damage. So many toplaners with no %hp damage. Plus yorick ult already does so many other things. Mistwalkers for free, replaces ones you lose, pushes lane harder than almost anything else, massive damage to towers if unchecked, forces enemy to choose between attacking yorick OR attacking maiden, etc. Few other ults offer so much for such a durable champ. Illaoi maybe, but she's entirely skillshot reliant (test of spirit) which has a long cd too, and her ult which is STATIONARY and does ONE THING.
% damage - exists as long as yorick ult exists. As long as yorick ult exists, if you cannot burst him, you cannot fight him because his mistwalkers, %hp damage, and crazy sustain (without building any lifesteal) will probably kill you before you kill him in an extended trade
Holy sheit. Who would have thought that juggernauts are good at extended trades. Jeez. Dude wake up you arent supposed to fight them at extended trades UNLESS you are made for extended trades.
That's NOT situational nearly as much as you make it sound
Well the % max hp dmg is tho. And it has a big cd. At least early on.
Because he can trap you in place and slow you to sick his mistwalkers on you at any time
Oke lets start by the obvious. The champs that cant evade his w with ease can fight him at 1v1. On the other hand if they cant , chances are that they can just dash away from his w. His slow also is easy as fk to evade, unless you are already slowed or cced.
Walkers deal 30% of yorick's ad. 30%*4= 120%. More than a full aa worth of damage - for free - even if yorick himself is nowhere near you
Walkers also deal 40% of the dmg if they are not near yorick. And they are one shotted by aa and single target abilities. Its also his main source of dmg for the majority of the game. If you take them out, he loses a big portion of his dmg.
They also can chase you,
Well they will chase you only if you get hit by his e which as i said before easy to evade.
Fragile". 2+ aoe abilities needed to kill them I can kill malz voidlings with a single darius or renekton q
Well duh? Juggernauts are weak to teamfights, not useless. Also fun fact, there is nowhere saying that mistwalkers take less dmg by aoe, yet its true. The same applies to malz minions yet they die instantly to pretty much everything. On the other hand, elise's spiders take less dmg from aoe and its stated. Riot you want consistency. Make it.
yorick has plenty of damage besides mistwalkers
Juggernauts are the most close class to raid bosses. You have to expect many sources of dmg.
And... they are constantly replenished for the duration of yorick ult
No? Whenever maiden kills a minion she spawns a walker. So when yorick fights she cant spawn new ones. Unless she is not with yorick.
Illaoi ult doesn't deal %hp damage
True. But she has a % missing hp heal on a pretty low cd, one of the strongest juggernaut ulti if the team comp allows it and strong snowball potential.
So many toplaners with no %hp damage
?? Your point? His %hp dmg is avoidable.
pushes lane harder than almost anything else, massive damage to towers if unchecked
Herald says hi! Seriously now tho, his niche is to have minions push. What do you expect?
I mean ffs at least list his downsides if you want to speak about his strengths.
woodvsmurph1 votesClearly you have no intention of honest evaluation or productive discussion. Thus this is posted for other people - who might just want to be logical.
Bruisers in general are MADE for extended trades - not just yorick. Renekton might be considered an exception; however you can argue against that too. Once he's got an item or two, he can win the quick trade very hard. Done right, this allows him to continue an extended (disfavorable trade) until he's gotten his abilities back up where he then gets enough burst to finish the job. But back to the point - yorick's sustained damage that requires next to no skill from him (press q a few times, press r, aa people - so hard lol) is higher than it should be for how hard it can be to target his mistwalkers. Their champ model needs to be larger so it can't get lost/untargetable in a minion wave. Then I don't care about the fact 4 of them do 120% of yorick's aa damage every attack because they can be dealt with without being forced to run away - which can be tricky considering yorick's wall and slow which allows them to leap to you.
His ult damage is situational and has a long cd? No it doesn't. No more than darius, illaoi, or renekton ults have a long cd. It's the nature of an ult. Literally a horrible argument.
Yes - maiden does replace lost mistwalkers. So the only way to avoid her %hp damage and eternally spawning mistwalkers during yorick ult is: 1. Kill yorick - we've already established he handily wins extended trades during ult (even if he's slightly behind). 2. Kill maiden - takes a ton of time; you are again fighting (which means you lose/die). 3. Hide behind tower to avoid mistwalker and maiden damage until ult ends - going forward to chunk it when possible; this should not be the only valid option in most scenarios, but it is. Unless you had a huge hp advantage and probably item/level advantage going into the fight, this is the only solution where you don't either get chunked out of lane (while yorick stays and pushes) or die. Thus while "his %hp dmg is avoidable" it is only avoidable at cost of a huge chunk of your tower and probably most of a minion wave or two.
"Herald says hi!"? Herald is a single spawn and gets you maybe 2 towers if left unchecked. Maiden nearly matches this pushing power and can be spawned more than once. As I said before - I'm fine with this. Pushing towers with maiden should be part of yorick's niche. But the %hp damage to champs as part of his ult is unnecessary and overkill. Coupled with mistwalkers being nigh impossible to target in minion waves, yorick can get way too much situational power while building literally nothing but defense. A simple removal of the %hp damage on yorick ult and resizing mistwalkers would fix all this. Keep mistwalker damage (but you can actually kill them without having to run away until there aren't enemy minions around) and keep pushing power of mistwalker (with FLAT low/moderate damage to champs and ability to respawn mistwalkers). Yorick could still deal damage, but his enemies wouldn't be punished simply because they chose to fight - they'd be punished only if they fight incorrectly. Yorick still keeps his identity and tower killing pressure. But he would have to actually build SOME damage to DEAL damage.
Bruisers in general are MADE for extended trades - not just yorick.
True. But Yorick is a juggernaut. They are the best when it comes to extended trades, with some notable exceptions.
Renekton might be considered an exception; however you can argue against that too.
He is a diver. Not as tanky as juggernaut. But his dmg is pretty much comparable.
yorick's sustained damage that requires next to no skill from him (press q a few times, press r, aa people - so hard lol) is higher than it should be for how hard it can be to target his mistwalkers. Their champ model needs to be larger so it can't get lost/untargetable in a minion wave.
His sustain is so brain dead because its weak as fk. With no scaling whatsoever. Also the problem you have with his ghouls might be only on you since i ve never encountered difficulty to click them.
which can be tricky considering yorick's wall and slow which allows them to leap to you.
His wall is there to help him hit e. Without e his ghouls will pretty much ignore him.
His ult damage is situational and has a long cd? No it doesn't. No more than darius, illaoi, or renekton ults have a long cd. It's the nature of an ult. Literally a horrible argument.
Are you for real now? His base cd at lvl 1 is 160. At max rank its 100. Illaoi's its at 120 at rank 1. Rene's is also at 120. So yeah before you say again something similar, do some research.
Kill yorick - we've already established he handily wins extended trades during ult
There are many that can 1v1 even with his maiden.
Kill maiden - takes a ton of time
Not if you have dmg since she has no resistances.
But the %hp damage to champs as part of his ult is unnecessary and overkill
No its not. Unless you wanted to make him the only juggernaut that cant 1v1 other juggernauts. Or 1v1 anyone.
yorick can get way too much situational power while building literally nothing but defense
If he builds only defense then he has no ad, which is what his ghouls need to deal dmg.
All in all i suppose i should end this argument since you refuse to use logic. Well have a nice day/night.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesA darius q or renekton q SHOULD delete them, instead, it does half their hp or LESS
Right, a single abilty SHOULD completely deny a combo that takes ages to prepare, costs at least 3 times as much mana and barely does anything, unless you land land the wall too.
Darius players are so silly xD
woodvsmurph1 votesYou want to talk combos? Yorick farms, gets mistwalkers, drops ONE ABILITY (dark procession) to completely deny the 5 stack passive "combo" of darius to prevent him ulting (or ruin darius q's from providing healing and max damage - yorick healing is point-n-click no skill needed). Then press another button (no aiming needed) to drop ult and run darius down with infinitely respawning mistwalkers plus %hp magic damage just for... auto attacking. Yeah clearly so much skill involved with yorick lol - who can farm from range or safety of tower, shove a wave to enemy tower faster than a jax with titanic and fully stacked passive (attack speed). No it is a skill matchup between the two which actually favors yorick since his rework. Not my opinion alone - supported by people of much higher rank than me.
Oh, and I'm not a darius player btw. I play him about as much as I play yorick or rumble - which isn't very often.
Meep Man2 votesI've really only had this issue with Rumble, Darius, Garen, and Singed to be honest. Every other Top Lane champion isn't a huge issue until later in the game, upon which I usually have enough health to where my Mist Walkers can take at least 1 decent AoE ability and survive. Only big issues usually come from people like Ziggs, Viktor, and maybe a couple other fed Mages in Middle Lane, but every champion has a few downsides that put them at a disadvantage against certain champions so I find that ok since AoE damage is kind of Ziggs and Viktor's niches and they deserve to be able to express their niche while I can simply focus someone else if fighting them is too hard. My only complaint as far as Mist Walker survivability is really the Runnan's Hurricane interaction where the bolts 1-shot them. If I would buff Mist Walkers survivability-wise, it would be to remove that interaction and maybe make tower shots take more than one shot to kill them past a certain level (maybe 2 shots after Level 13).
Whosa Is Yousa1 votesAlready have been tons of posts on this, riot ethier doesnt care or already know.
Ninjas Flossing1 votesthey actually explicitly made mist walkers AND voidlings die in one hit to balance their overwhelming nature they arent going to change that
Kirius Dark2 votesYet 
Q and R take like 6 hits to kill each walker but 1 to drop a voidling for some reason
Stomped a malz mid by healing and killing his voids during each trade, then picked Swain again when facing a Yorick top and the difference in pet tanking power and night and day. I couldn't even kill his mist walkers with my R
Meep Man1 votesACTUALLY, Mist Walkers do not die in one hit to AoE abilities. Only basic attacks from champions and towers. Everything else uses their health bar, which is equal to 100-185 (+15% Max Health). Basically, if Mist Walkers are dying in one hit from AoE abilities, it's because that AoE ability actually hurts that much and would chunk you if you didn't have any Armor or Magic Resist. The main thing as Yorick is to make sure to build health so this doesn't happen if are facing an enemy with high AoE damage.
Also, Voidlings don't die in one hit either. They have health similar to Zyra Plants to where they take damage depending on what kind of attack it was, with single target abilities/basic attacks dealing the most damage, but high frequency tick DoTs actually killing them the quickest (like Singed Q) since it will always deal 1 damage to them and they have only about 3-5 health (I forgot the exact number).
Ninjas Flossing1 votesACTUALLY, Mist Walkers do not die in one hit to AoE abilities. Only basic attacks from champions and towers. Everything else uses their health bar, which is equal to 100-185 (+15% Max Health). Basically, if Mist Walkers are dying in one hit from AoE abilities, it's because that AoE ability actually hurts that much and would chunk you if you didn't have any Armor or Magic Resist. The main thing as Yorick is to make sure to build health so this doesn't happen if are facing an enemy with high AoE damage.
Also, Voidlings don't die in one hit either. They have health similar to Zyra Plants to where they take damage depending on what kind of attack it was, with single target abilities/basic attacks dealing the most damage, but high frequency tick DoTs actually killing them the quickest (like Singed Q) since it will always deal 1 damage to them and they have only about 3-5 health (I forgot the exact number).
both mist walkers and voidlings die to a single auto, which is what i was refering to......
Taliyah Rocks1 votesI don't understand why they didnt take a cue from Blizzard already. Most pets and minions in their game take reduced damage from AoE skills. Logic: They are unable to dodge AoEs, it only makes sense that they take reduced damage from them to make up for it..
Doozku1 votesExcept they do take reduced damage from AOE. In fact, using AOE on the minions are a waste because 1 auto instantly kills them unless your AOE insta-gibs them which as a toplaner isn't likely. In teamfights though yeah his minions get bursted down real quick.
FatedSaviour1 votesthey already take like no dmg from aoe
50000000000000001 votesWould it make sense to nerf Mist Walker damage but give them CC? I think that would allow them to have more defensive stats. To make up for the loss of damage, it should be put on Yorick to do extra damage with Q if the enemy has been damaged by a Mist Walker or something.
I don't know why they're not more tanky, but if it's because they do too much damage, I think this is a way to solve the frustration while playing Yorick. Would definitely need to hear from someone who plays more Yorick, though.
yoshi27901 votesFine, but nerf their damage by A LOT, because the damage they deal is insane.
LadyRenly1 votesconsidering walkers can instantly teleport to you...no thx
