Mages are overloaded and too overpowered and runes blanket too much

Strundwiin··3 votes·1,040 views

This is kind of a two-fer post. I think mages, in there current state, are just in general, best in pretty much every role, save jungle. They out damage almost every opponent in a match up, their items are too cost/stat efficient and they have so many more tools and variety than almost every other role. Mages are so bad, they're infecting top lane now. Picking something like Velkoz or Ahri top is like a new, better Vayne top. It's Vladimir levels of oppression, just without the healing most of the time. I can't tell you the amount of times Velkoz can just press Q and W the entire lane phase and basically still have mana and have both back up very shortly. It's nearly impossible to farm without taking tons of damage from just one Q or W glimpsing you because of Comet and Scorch. And then he is rewarded for it because of Manaflow Band and when he gets Luden's just another free bit of damage for next to nothing. I rushed straight MR and just a touch of his W+plus Comet+Luden's and you'd lose 120 hp. That's ridiculous. The only thing in his kit that seems to at all have a cooldown or mana cost, besides his R, is his E. And his R, after a certain point, you don't even need to combo with anything to kill anyone, including a tank like Ornn. And Ahri can practically do all of that, though usually she doesn't take Comet obviously, while also having free sustain and three summoner 4 's on a low cooldown, which can also be used just to chase you down and kill you without little to do. But, it's not just top lane and it's not just these three mages. Other mages also reward the same low effort, high reward/low counterplay, high safety style. Orianna at level 1 or 2 is extremely oppressive with even just autos, qs, and Aery, Zoe after a certain point doesn't actually have to land bubble or long range Q, she can just beat you with passive procs out the wazoo, Viktor can just spam Q with comet or aery while also getting a shield and free sheen at level 1 and having a safety net of W and the shields/ms from Q. Syndra is basically back to Season 3 op status, and she can even get away with the mechromancer build; the glacial augment and glp/spooky ghosts combo while still retaining and extremely high damage/high range combo. And these don't even come close to the biggest offender, in my opinion; Veigar. I cannot think of a champion besides Aphelios that's as broken as Veigar. Even if he just goes even in lane, you've lost. He gets rewarded from just playing the game like every other mage by just hitting abilities and farming, his E is such a ridiculously overpowered cc tool that ccs you regardless if you get stunned or not because you are forced to get hit by W and Q if you are in the middle anyways, and he can just remove someone from the game with an R press mid-late game aka 3 items, not to mention ginormous base damage on all of his abilities which makes a more defensive/hp oriented item path possible and viable. ADCs, which are the closest comparison to the mage role, are just so easily eclipsed by everything a mage offers. Mages have the same tower destruction, mostly better wave clear, better safety items, most of the time better range, and better cc. So why pick any ADC, other than maybe Aphelios because he's just completely broken at the moment, when you could play Heimerdinger, Veigar, Syndra, or even Lux as a bot lane carry and have the same effect, if not, always better? And you get to have item 3157 which is EASILY the best item in the entire game. Very few Assassins can even beat most mages, if any, only really Kassadin stands a consistent chance because he also benefits from the completely ridiculous AP items and his numbers being crazy, on top of a huge blanket from runes. Few fighters can compete, strictly because they can barely get on a mage. Camille, Fiora, Yasuo, Kled, and Vi are the only fighters that have a distinctly easier time just getting a mage strictly because their kits allow them to ignore a second or two of CC. Tanks definitely don't fair well against mages, especially because of how much raw pen and scaling they have comparatively to any other role. So, who is supposed to win, if not only other mages? And mage vs mage match ups are EXTREMELY boring and un-interactive.

Now, for the second part of my title; the blanket that runes provide. I think runes are the center point for a lot of things getting out of hand or even just underpowered, and in turn, creates the metaphorical/literal blanket I'm talking about. Think of how many champs can get nerfed or buffed with the introduction, removal, nerf or buff of just one rune. The removal of Kleptomancy because it was being abused by too many ranged champs to snowball leads, Fervor of Battle having to be removed because it was just so ridiculous, pre nerf Triumph, Perfect Timing, all of these things just completely changed the game, and it was something outside that you took in, not even a champion. And how many runes which are basically worthless? Celerity after all the nerfs it got because a small group of champs used it better than others, Future's Market, Absolute Focus, Overheal, Cut Down, Ghost Poro, Zombie Ward, Ultimate Hunter. Easily the worst runes in the group, excluding keystones, because at least they are all useful on a group of champs, including Omnistone. But there are also keystones which are just completely overpowered compared to others; Conqueror, Aery and Comet are just completely ridiculous compared to all the rest. Fervor of Battle was removed because it just added too much free damage for basically nothing, why add it back, but better than before? With basically 15-20 free stat at level 1 plus healing on top of it which isn't reduced to any source, unless you're ranged? Why not reduce healing for dots and aoe? Why even have so much stuff in one rune? Why can some champs get multiple stacks with a single ability usage, like Renekton, Cassiopeia, Garen, Mordekaiser? Why can you get something that potent, from one ability? Shouldn't you have to weave or utilize more things in order to get that kind of reward? Aery procs far too often on too many things for free, uninteractive damage, same with Comet and you can't dodge either one, unless it wasn't procced on you or with comet, unless you move fast enough. At least Harvest you can avoid and it requires a condition. And that's keystones, there are minor runes which are ridiculous on their own merit as well. Ravenous Hunter, Transcendence, Ingenious Hunter, Taste of Blood, Triumph, Legend: Tenacity, Manaflow Band, Scorch, and Demolish are completely overtuned and easily the best in their respective categories 90% of the time. It's too much free stat or free sustain or free damage and frankly it makes the game so unfun to play because it all comes down to a stat on a page, not something the player is doing inherently. This is obviously closer to a rant and I haven't posted statistics, but this is just my thoughts, feelings and opinions from playing the game. Feel free to leave any sort of comment or critique or whatnot. I'm sure this post will end up with negative downvotes anyways. This isn't just pure hatred or complaints, this is because I care about the game and I want to see it get to it's full potential.

9 Comments

hazerddex3 votes

mages have been being pushed out of midlane for some time now it started back when Yasuo skermishers and assasins midlane has become much more common and has been forcing mages to go to other lanes because they can't really fight assasins or skermishers

for example Velkoz is basically dead this meta because how many diving assasins and just mobility there is in general. i've not seen a Vel'koz in well over a year,

most the mages you listed are rarely played and rather weak actually.

Syndra need to much set up for any of her stuff to do the high damage.

Veigar is not a standard for mages, but a standard for why endless stacks will forever remain a terrible idea that riot has even admitted to, but wont address it or stop making champions that stack endlessly. EHEM Nasus Senna

item 3157 is not as good as you think it is. especially on low mobility mages like Xerath Zoe most the time the enemy team if they are not blind. will just dogpile the hourglassed mage and kill them.

at lest item 3026 gives you a good amount of hp when you come back.

Ahri better then Vayne ?? really? because vayne has true damage persecond rather then on one skill shot life steal can become untargetable. can hard stun you or push you away which is a huge amount of utility compared to ahri's charm which can only slowly make enemies walk towards you. also her hp heal only works after you use several abilities which cost a lot of mana so hardly "free sustain."

Viktor q is a skill shot and an easily dodged on if anything he is in desperate need of help because he still suffers from only being able to build 5 items. because his passive takes up one item slot. there is a reason you rarely see him played.

Vladimir like veigar is not the standard for mages he allways has been a top laner like Rumble even before his rework.

speak of which i notice you leave out Rumble who is also an ap champion

Heimerdinger is one of the few champions that falls off hard late game play passive against him and then reakt him in team fights where he doesn't have enough time to set up. again there is a reason you rarely see him in ranked.

Kassadin is also not your standard mage he has been problematic since his release and i think riot has just given up on trying to balance his kit. since back in season 1-5 he went through so many nerffed to hard to buffed to strong that it's silly.

JarvanIV is a good counter to mages so is Pantheon

also if an Zoe is bursting you down from full hp with just auto attacks then you clearly are not building any resistances against her.

Orianna is suppose to be a bit of a lane bully so ya working as intended,. but she has to land her stuff which all have travel time. you just need to avoid her q.

Strundwiin2 votes

Then whoever is on those mages aren't very good at them, considering how many more tools mages have to help deal with close range pressure and how much they can zone. The only assassin you might have a problem with is Zed or Kassadin, strictly because it's very hard to stop them from coming towards you because they have blinks, and not dashes and Fizz, cause Fizz. Most mages have at least one ability to stop them dead in their tracks. If you miss that, that's on you. Personally, never had a problem on a mage vs Yasuo, unless I was something like Zoe. but even still.

I've played a lot of Syndra and you don't at all have to set up. Just Q, E, W, R, that's it. And you can go mechromancer build to make her even more oppressive/land easier cc.

Zhonyas is better. More stats, better components, shorter cooldown. Zoe isn't low mobility. And if a whole team has the opportunity to sit around while someone comes out of Zhonyas, either the person isn't using Zhonyas right, or their team isn't playing right.

Ahri has more range than Vayne, her E is a % damage ramp so after a certain amount of pen, which most will build, does full damage to you with E, which also has a shorter base cooldown than Condemn, until Condemn is maxed, which is last. Vayne true damage requires her to hit you 3 times, granted which isn't necessarily that hard, but it's also max hp with a minimum, compared to Ahri which is a flat amount which also scales with AP while Vayne W just scales with ability rank. Her abilities don't cost a lot of mana either. Her Q is the only one which has an increase in mana cost per level, which only goes to 85 and her W only costs 40. That's 6 Q's or 10 W's at just level 1, excluding any sort of rune and item. It's very easy to position to not get stunned by Vayne E, so the actual knockback is pretty meh compared to a slow on a champ who is forced to walk one specific path, leading to better follow up if necessary. Vayne and Ahri's healing, numbers wise, would be pretty much the same, maybe Ahri doing a little more with more healing, since Ahri's passive is per target hit and not reduced so you can Q a minion wave for huge amounts of hp, while lifesteal is strictly single target and Vayne will usually only build botrk for lifesteal, which only gives 10%.

Viktor Q is not a skill shot, it is a targeted ability. Viktor's item is a free stat stick at level 1 and a max rank hex core at level 12 is already giving the same amount of AP as a deathcap, on top of 300 mana and all his ability upgrades.

Vladimir is still a mage and benefits from the mage rework on items that happened a while back, so he is still very much included in the patch of mages. And he's flex picked mid still because he does well against Assassins. I left Rumble out because he is balanced and not oppressive in lane, as he doesn't have the extreme range and utility possibility that most other mages have. Still doesn't mean he doesn't benefit from the insane items mages have access to.

Heimer is still a reliable pocket pick of several high elo bot lane mains. Have never seen a Heimer have "problems setting up" late game, especially since you can use e or w and then place a turret and still get the laser. Still see plenty of Heimer bot.

Kass is much easier to balance than Riot wants to believe. Take away base damage, increase scaling. Reduce passive early. He should be weaker early-early mid game, as he is designed to be a late game champ. Currently not the case with runes blanketing most of his problems and Seraphs being so stat/gold efficient for its users.

You lack wards if J4 gets on you or he flashed, then you can just Zhonyas or flash out his r yourself and boom, he's not an issue anymore. Panth is so easy to kite, it's not funny. His damage falls off pretty quickly as well, so the only thing that would be good his his W or E, his W being very easy to avoid being hit by i.e. not playing melee vs him and his E doesn't make him immune to cc and lasts about the same duration as most mages cc ability, if he doesn't have tenacity and he can't do anything else during it, while it does very negligible damage.

Played a good bit of Zoe recently. You can just spam close range Q's, E's and weave autos in between and you'll melt pretty much any non tank/bruiser, even if people build something like maw or pd. Hell, I've one shot people with one E and Q through maw, since maw won't stop her E pop damage.

Don't recall Ori a few seasons back being a lane bully. At most she'd Q, W and auto you for Thunderlords and that was it. And that could only be done every 30 seconds or so, her damage was pretty lack luster otherwise. Problem is, she got buffed a few times before worlds and never got nerfed afterwards. So on top of being a bully, she also just gets free resistances for being Orianna from her E passive and also gets her E shield, which is a pretty heft shield for only having a base cooldown of 9 seconds and a mana cost of 60. Her Q has a 6 second cd at level 1 and only a base cost of 30 at level 1, meaning 13 casts of Q excluding everything else. Compare her R to the most similar ADC R which is Varus' R. His does 50 less damage, same cooldown, same cost, scales with AP which he doesn't build, effects only 1 target unless it spreads, and has slightly shorter range. Obviously I'm not saying all ults should do the same damage and do the same thing. But why is hers just better and with a better effect?

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Vel'Koz and Ahri are not viable toplaners. Not with that tiny of a pickrate.

And being a "better Vayne top" is a very low bar when Vayne top is already dumpster tier.

Strundwiin1 votes

Other regions are picking up mages in the top lane. And Vayne top is not dumpster tier, it's oppressive as heck throughout the entire lane phase, and if the player is at all decent on ADCs, she's good late game too. It's basically another Quinn. Pick rate doesn't equal a champion being good somewhere or not. Just means they're either under the radar or people play something else.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Yeah, it's oppressive. If the jungler has literally zero braincells and never ganks, and if you don't counter her.

However, it generally cripples her teamcomp, and she ends up being a liability rather than an asset unless she dominates lane.

Statistically it's fucking terrible.

Strundwiin2 votes

Junglers don't play around top lane anymore, since dragons are so strong and how much more mid and bot effects the game comparatively to top. And you don't blind pick Vayne, she's a counter pick and will be most fighters/bruisers/tanks anyways. And I have never seen a Vayne top "cripple" a team comp, as top laners are moreso just extended fight damage anyways. And more likely to dominate lane if you have many favorable match ups comparatively.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

They don't play around top anymore, sure, but any jungler with at least a third of a braincell knows that Vayne top is a free gank. Literally just gank her, get the free gold, then walk away and do jungler things. Repeat for free gold. Odds are high that the toplaner won't even flame you for taking the kill.

And it cripples a team comp because toplane is expected to have a durable champion of some kind, and any bruiser or tank toplane is generally tankier than in any other lane, due to solo exp+solo gold+not having to get support tank items. You're taking one of the squishiest champions in the game and placing them in a lane where you're expected to be durable, and that makes it much less likely you have any kind of tanky champion on your team.

And nothing is as much of an autoloss as having zero durable champions. If they have a single assassin (it's yoloQ and probably below plat, so they almost certainly do) they'll just dominate the match single-handedly, because nobody can survive their combo enough to do anything.

Malix Farwin2 votes

OP been watchin too much Hashinshin lol. The guy who whines about AP champions being OP but hard feeds when he plays one

Strundwiin2 votes

I don't actually, came to my opinions all on my own. Only time I've seen Hash is in compilations/league stream highlights I watch all the time on YouTube.

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