And I don't mean half-ass it and meet halfway, I mean full on original passive.
And maybe an attack speed per level buff to compensate for damages.
I kid you not Riot you took away her identity, and I NEVER complained that you "gutted" a champ until now. Please. Please give us back what made her unique.
JustMyBassCannon51 votesNow, I'm not a Tristana main. I play her sometimes, because I like her kit, but I tend to do that with a lot of champions. This is just my opinion.
She lost 34 range. Yes, she went from just over 700 to just under 670 at max, but I don't think it's the range loss that cut into her strength. I believe it is because she lost 42.5% AS from her per-level gain over her two AS per-level nerfs. She lost 42.5% out of 68% innate attack speed, dropping her from 1.102 to 0.823 at level 18.
The range loss is not nothing, per se, but the AS nerfs are a bit more significant. Especially since her E stacks based on attacks. And her Q got a shorter duration, and only +20% more AS, not quite compensating for the loss gap.
Only Play Darius16 votesBoth nerfs were uncalled for. Either nerf one or the other, but you can't nerf two core aspects of tristana's kit and expect her to not have a trash winrate.
ICantNameMe3 votesAnd then for some reason Lucian's is even worse this patch... but yes, I still agree that she has needed buffs ever since her "rework". They have been slowly buffing her, so maybe she will eventually become a decent champion with the buffs they keep giving her small buffs over time. I would like to see her get her range and as/lvl back, but it doesn't seem like Riot are willing to go in that direction. She doesn't even beat Caitlyn in range until level 16 now @_@. I say she needs buffs, but I somehow do well with her when i pick her (this is Plat/Diamond normal games, so whatever).
Nilok3 votesI think Lucian's win rate is more of a side effect of the Tank Meta and him being a bit more burst than most ADC (without true damage), which tanks normally counter.
ICantNameMe1 votesHe applies BotRK twice with his passive though... He is a decently high skillcap champion, but I don't think his win rate should be the lowest of all ADCs...
Nilok1 votesThat is true, his play rate has been increasing relative to his win rate, so it may really be just inexperienced players causing it to decrease and not itemizing effectively.
Mitch Sorenstein2 votesLucian was too overpowered and he received too many direct and indirect nerfs, at least some of them should be reverted. Ult CD, range, AD scaling on W etc.
Durzaka6 votesWhile i agree, the range nerf was still significant.
It means she doesnt even outrange Caitlyn until level 16. So what the fuck is the point of picking her now?
She used to be the long range hyper carry that you would cry if she reached 6 items.
She is so far from that it isnt even funny.
If you want long range, both Kogmaw and Jinx are much better choices than Tristana.
BoxOfDOG4 votesNow, I'm not a Tristana main. I play her sometimes, because I like her kit, but I tend to do that with a lot of champions. This is just my opinion.
She lost 34 range. Yes, she went from just over 700 to just under 670 at max, but I don't think it's the range loss that cut into her strength. I believe it is because she lost 42.5% AS from her per-level gain over her two AS per-level nerfs. She lost 42.5% out of 68% innate attack speed, dropping her from 1.102 to 0.823 at level 18.
The range loss is not nothing, per se, but the AS nerfs are a bit more significant. Especially since her E stacks based on attacks. And her Q got a shorter duration, and only +20% more AS, not quite compensating for the loss gap.
TOTALLY agree. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Upon the fact that her base magic resist, armor, and health were all nerfed.. It feels extremely penalizing to hop into a fight like a Graves.
Personally, I play Tristana and have mained her for long enough (mid Season 3) that I can CS pretty easily on her.. However I will say that it's really annoying how slow your attacks can feel sometimes, especially when you have a Phantom Dancer AND a Blade of The Ruined King with your Q on, and it still feels awfully slow compared to old trist.
Madra15 votesHer attack speed is so low that its hard to trade at all in lane with her. Nobody ever lets you get autos off on them while the bomb is up, so you are almost completely dependent on your support to keep them in range. I always end up losing CS in lane because of her Explosive Shot passive. I used to just call it the "Tristana Tax" because her late game scaling would be good enough to offset it. But being forced to push the lane alongside the CS you end up missing isn't really worth it. Plus, when you are in SoloQ, your Thresh or Alistar lane partner will always pull out a flash Death Sentence or Pulverize after you've just used your Bomb, thus ensuring that you have 0 DPS for the upcoming skirmish. Half the time I play Trist now, I take teleport and just run at the towers. I respect what they were trying to do with the new Tristana... it just feels like they shaved too much off of what used to make her good in exchange for tower killing power.
Only Play Darius3 votesThe good old Tristana tax. Ah yes, reminds me of the good old days where I played Tristana and was such trash during the laning phase, but I didn't mind it because I knew that late game she would become an adorable little team melting nightmare.
Lol her early game is just as bad now, but her late game got hit too hard. She has a relatively pronounced mid-game powerspike that wasn't as visible pre-rework, but every other ADC with midgame powerspikes have an early game that isn't complete trash, so there is no reason to pick her over anyone else.
Can't believe i'm saying this, but 
is a better pick. Yes he is trash early and (somewhat) mid game, but so is Tristana's. Only difference is that his late game is still godlike, and far better than Tristana's at this point.
Hellioning9 votesShe's basically a worse Jinx in every respect. Which is really sad, considering that Trist was reworked after Jinx was released...
UberAffe7 votesUsed to be a trist main, I hate playing her now, it feels so shitty trying to auto things.
Nilok6 votesAgreed.
Tristana's primary identity is having a scaling auto attack range that maxes out at the longest auto attack range in the game, bar none, including auto attack range modifying abilities, and being an end game hyper carry.
BRBGTGBOWFLEX2 votesTwitch's R always made him have the highest auto attack range in the game at 850. Old Trist was well below that.
I agree 100% that having a very long scaling ranged attack is her core identity, but twitch has always had higher range.
Rozzeta2 votesBut Twitch's (and Kog's) range modifiers came from a buff. A level 18 tristana had permanent access to her increased range.
NorthernDruid3 votesYes!
Give us the range to use our kit properly.
And the attack speed to not have horrendous farm.
The Loveless3 votesMake her complete AD-physical damage scaling. You mean to tell me she jumps on you and it's magic? She shoots a rocket at you and it's magic?
Oh but Kalista is a spectral entity and her spears are physical, nothing magical about those huh?
OperationDEEZ14 votesBecause we need her resetting dash to do 500 damage too along with her bombs, ult and autos..
chipi991 votesMaking kalistas abilities physical is so she cant melt tanks if they build tons of armor.
The Loveless1 votesthat's the thing, trist's mixed damage isn't melting armored tanks either...not that I'm using w for damage on tanks anyway
chipi991 votesShe was one of the older champs who had ad + ap scaling in her abilities.
The Loveless1 votesI remember the joys of ap trist. Much better than current trist lol
Penta Penguin3 votesReally? Because Tristana feels way more fun now and powerful, and I play her far more than I used to (although I miss AP Tristana - apparently way too toxic compared to "instant 100% triple kill" Katarina).
BoxOfDOG4 votesReally? Because Tristana feels way more fun now and powerful, and I play her far more than I used to (although I miss AP Tristana - apparently way too toxic compared to "instant 100% triple kill" Katarina).
There's a difference between FEELING powerful and BEING powerful.
I adore the new look and style of Tristana now, but she simply is weaker and doesn't contribute anything truly significant that any other ADC can't.
Penta Penguin1 votesI don't know, I can solo three towers in one push with Tristana after Laning phase. You can't catch me and if I even bothere dto ward to cover myself, forget about it. She's actually kidn of broken if you think about Jinx, the "tower buster" ADC who's weakness is supposed to be lack of safety. Her slow isn't worth the cast time ifyou'r ein trouble, the Chompers aren't always reliable.
Meanwhile Tristana has the best mobility on a Marksman, and undeniable keep-away with Buster Shot.
Her team-fighting still feels great to me. People say "you hav eto jump into melee range!". You only do this to finish a fight or insta burst someone, and when you do you can jump back out. Tristana does perfectly fine with IE/Phantom and sitting back with he rbomb toss and AS steroid. Nobody will get close, and nobody gets away.
Maybe "range" was a part of her identity, but not really a big part. Fucking "attack speed" is certainly a stupid core identity to have; it's just attack speed. Every Adc gets more attack speed.
To me Caitlyn is the "range is my identity" marksman. Tristana's previous identity was more about jumping around and Buster Shot. Now it's even better with her bomb. I don't know why a marksman with so much mobility had a range identity anyway.
planters2 votessee the problem with your argument is that you're missing some basic facts. First off old trist was a hypercarry meaning her late game team fight was insane. New trist doesnt really feel like a hypercarry due to lack of range and attack speed. yes her turret taking is tremendous now, but that was never really part of her core identity, or at least, not to the same extent as her teamfight presence. Trist was the go to 6 item adc for most people because her only rival was jinx. Now she cant really rival jinx. sure she has better turret taking, but it is not extensively better and jinx has a better teamfight. Realistically, all people want back is the feeling of being unequivocal at 6 items. Til that is given no one is going to be happy with new trist.
I for one love what they did with her. She is, in my own opinion, much more fun. That said she does in fact feel weaker than old trist especially in laning phase.
Penta Penguin1 votesi thought that was the idea of the hyper carry
When I play Trist I usually afk-farm to level 6 then see what I can do. Maybe I just didn't play enough Old Trist, but a lot of people don't seem to respect the damage output. Their support will go back, the adc will be at 50% saying "I'll just farm a little longer", then suddenly they're dead. I feel like the bomb has added a lot of damage to her that wasn't there unless you built AP
planters1 voteslol sorry for replying so late. anyway. Yes the bomb has added a lot of mid game damage and early damage. The problem is that the added damage cant be capitalized on very well in the early and mid game due to her exceptionally slow AA animation taking too long to proc hits at lower levels. Second, the lack of that 6 item best teamfight adc in game is gone. That is the core identity that everyone placed with trist. Not phenomenal turret taking, but great 6 item carry potential.
Chibi Templar3 votesI'm actually okay with her range. Its like most people are stating, its her painfully slow attack speed is the issue.
Also, on a side note, why haven't they changed Buster Shot to an AD scaling with physical damage? The way it feels now, its only got two real uses, either knocking someone away from you, or pushing them into something. Heck, why not make it like a vayne condemn where you knock them into the wall for bonus damage + a stun with it rather than through it? For an ultimate, it doesn't feel very ultimate like outside of its huge knock back range. Maybe I'm missing something ?
soh1gh22 votesi wish they didn't kill the rocket girt trist skin i used to enjoy shooting big ass rockets at people
Spinothalamic2 votesLet's not get too carried away so Riot might listen. How about simply starting with her full old passive back. You can leave her attack speed the way it is and see how she is.
I used to love trist, now she feels so strange to play.
Nilok1 votesWhat do you suggest then?
She currently has the lowest damage, aside from Urgot, of all ADC and she has a ton of AoE moves as well which should cause the opposite. How would you recommend fixing that?
BoxOfDOG1 votesWhat do you suggest then?
She currently has the lowest damage, aside from Urgot, of all ADC and she has a ton of AoE moves as well which should cause the opposite. How would you recommend fixing that?
I literally made a recommendation IN the post. Buff the range buff the attack speed.
Currently she deals enough damage that if you get ahead you're in a sort of-ish good spot. But early-mid game is garbage, and her late game is simply sad compared to how it used to be.
Nilok1 votesThat was actually a question to Spinothalamic since he said not to buff the attack speed, so I wanted to hear his alternative.
I would suggest two things myself for that (along with the range), buff the attack speed, and fix her attack animation so it doesn't take so long.
BoxOfDOG1 votesThat was actually a question to Spinothalamic since he said not to buff the attack speed, so I wanted to hear his alternative.
I would suggest two things myself for that (along with the range), buff the attack speed, and fix her attack animation so it doesn't take so long.
Gotcha. My mistake. But yeah, I can see that maybe the attack animation is a bit awkward for some people.
I'm pretty adaptable, so I get used to auto-attack animations very easily xD
Nilok1 votesI've noticed that the attack animation is abnormally long and can cause you to cancel your attacks with relative ease. Reducing the animation length should improve the feel of the kit and gameplay of the champion.
VeryGreen2 votesTristana is ment to push into nexus now. other than that she is bad
ferkin2 votesAs someone who used to main Tristana in Season 4 and tried to main her again Season 5, I would have to agree that her nerfs are indeed a bit harsh. I feel that she has been removed from the whole hyper-carry role and thrown into a weird support-carry role. Her laning is extremely harsh with the lowered AS, and her range doesn't help her much to trade since other carries have more reliable ways to trade (Buckshot, Tumble, Jinx Q, etc). Although Tristana has self peel with her Ulti and Rocket Jump, there isn't much reason to pick her over Jinx who does just about the same thing, but with more damage and persistent attack speed, and is even stronger in teamfights.
Furthermore, I believe that in order for Tristana to excel at all in-game she has to either snowball extremely hard, or rely on her teammates, so that she can push turrets as a 5man or split push while 4 others pull pressure. Due to Tristana's lack of AS during laning phase, she loses tremendous amounts of damage since she can't properly stack her E unless the enemy just decides to stand still. Compared to Jinx, there isn't a whole lot of reason to pick Tristana, since Jinx is technically safer with longer range, MS buff on kill/assist, and also her slow and traps. Jinx has basically taken over the role of Tristana's hyper-carry role leaving Tristana to be in a bit of a weird spot, since she doesn't really hyper-carry, and she's not really a support.
Moreover, in order to remedy this, I feel that Riot should just revert the AS nerfs or at least buff her AS, but keep the range nerfs in order to bring Tristana back to her hyper-carry role. 670 Range is plenty for a champion like Tristana that can escape with Rocket Jump or knock multiple enemies away, and the lack of range may also act as counter-play as she will have to be a lot closer to auto-attack enemies. Furthermore, this would make Tristana a great contender with Jinx, as Tristana would offer more turret pushing power with her increased AS whereas Jinx would offer more Range and Damage.
50West1 votesI would rather have higher attack speed than her full range back.
Durzaka1 votesAgreed.
Although honestly, i would settle for fucking reverting her ASP nerfs, which were ridiculously uncalled for.
Angel Violét1 votesI tend to have a really bad time last-hitting and trading with trist early-game And she's one of the most cs-reliant ADC in the game, which makes her inferior to the other ADCs unless you are like really good lol
Nilok1 votesIt does make it a lot harder unless you can shut down the enemy bot lane so you free farm and level quickly.
Even though she is a late game champion, I haven't seen her be able to recover from a poor early game unlike other late game champions. Everyone else simply out scales her unless she is way ahead.
Conncept1 votesYou're right, that range did make her identity. But you know what? That identity never made any sense whatsoever, she's a cannoneer, not a sniper, that super range passive made as much sense on her as Ashes 'don't attack' passive fits her.
The Trent1 votesThe chance of a rioter even looking at this thread is pretty low considering that u didn't put much thought into it. Can u tell us why she really needs a range boost? Can you tell me why she doesn't do good compared to other adcs just cus of her range? If you put a lot of thought into ur thread then maybe a rioter will look at it. It doesn't matter how many upvotes this gets. Why should a rioter even care about this thread when there is a well thought out thread about some ideas for a Akali change or Swain change?
BestTristMyHaus1 votesI love(d) Tristana having long range, and would like nothing more than for her to get her range back. That said, IF they're going to change her kit to be reliant on this multi-hit "time" bomb thing, then the nerf to her AS is just idiotic. "Here, we'll give you an ability predicated on how many times you can hit a target after marking, to make it 'fun' we'make it next to impossible to land all 4 hits"
Puri Puri Taric1 votesshe fakking op pushes towers like crazy jumps away and shoves enemys away she good. she better than she was
BoxOfDOG3 votesshe fakking op pushes towers like crazy jumps away and shoves enemys away she good. she better than she was
Jinx does almost everything that Trist does better.
Before Tristana's update? Beat the crap out of Jinx every game. Now, Jinx can grind through towers like they're nothing, outduels everyone, and the 'minimum damage nerf' on her ult means LITERALLY NOTHING.
TheBros1 votesayyy lmao
Ahurath1 votesI've played alot of tristana both before and after the nerf. She was fine before the nerf/rework whatever you want to call it but after she just got gutted.
She was provided with an even weaker early game, decent midgame and not so good lategame. She's cooldown dependant, does less damage compared to other top picks and jsut get obliterated by every other meta pick in lane.
But the thing is with her E you can't just give her back old range and attackspeed since then she would be very strong probably the most strong charchter in the game so then you have to scale back the damage on e.