So Elise is getting a buff to her E stun: It now stuns for 1.5 seconds at all ranks instead of 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 and cooldown is reduced to 14/12.5/11/9.5/8 seconds from 14/13/12/11/10 seconds.
Won't this just make her more of a cocoon bot instead of actually help her damage as an assassin? I'm a bit disappointed that Riot is buffing her stun instead of her Q or W.
LoLKiru26 votesHonestly I think Riot just needs to nail down an identity for Elise; what is she supposed to be, an assassin, a duelist, a tanky-mage; what?
Once you have that, its much easier to set a direction for future balancing.
Earthpine5 votesI believe that Riot made her to be an assassin so she should stay an assassin, not become a tank or an bruiser. They should buff her damage and not the bits that only make her good in locking down on person and hope they get nuked before then stub wears off.
Knight SoIaire 1 voteswhat they intended her to be is not important for them anymore ... once champion goes live they focus on what this champion is for the players currently instead of what they want it to be
the thing is that they dont have any point to grab onto when you look at what elise is good at ... you cant identify it ... she is good at so many things and there is nothing that dominates this area
so riot derps it because "community might backlash"
TTUPhoenix2 votesI believe that Riot made her to be an assassin so she should stay an assassin, not become a tank or an bruiser. They should buff her damage and not the bits that only make her good in locking down on person and hope they get nuked before then stub wears off.
I think that this is actually intended to move her away from being a cocoon bot into being more of an assassin. Having a longer duration stun available earlier means that her earlier ganks are better, and you're not forced to level E to get a better stun. It's available more later on, but by nerfing the late game duration it makes her less valuable as a stun bot, encouraging people to build her with a greater emphasis on damage.
In essence, people don't build Elise as a tanky stun bot because she's good at it - they build her that way because it's better than other build options. Take that away and damage Elise becomes more viable.
It's why I think the nerf to Rek'Sai (I cri for bae) could actually make bruiser Rek more viable - if her knockup isn't as strong, she's not as useful as a tanky cc bot. Now if only she could get a little of her damage and base hp back...
PBnJelly3 votesExcept they just tied a bunch of her damage into her Spider form E, so basically last patch they said "Hey start maxing E more it does this now", and now they're pretty much like "Nevermind, let's make E max less viable."
When Elise built damage forever ago, W second was the way to go because it gave more damage output than E as well as the cocoon duration was static. Now, they're trying to go back to that I guess, but they just gave her a big damage boost on her E.
MohawkBird5 votes[deleted]
Partholonian2 votesI would love for her to become an AP Bruiser, but we all know that class isn't really there because of the sheer lack of itemization they get.
Uh, have you seen the notes for this patch? Like half the patch is buffs to AP bruiser items.
Sire Hippington1 votesI don't consider a 150 health nerf on RoA a buff for ap-bruisers even with 20 more ap, and i still don't like liandry'S in most situations, so all that really was buffed for them is the slow from rylais.
YOLO420SWAGSCOPE1 votesAh, fizz and ekko with their tank builds, also known as the "asshole u wont have fun playing league anymore" build
Stellafreyja13 votesThe stun for 1.5 seconds at all ranks is actually a revert. That's how Cocoon used to be until they tweaked it.
Earthpine1 votesReally? Well I didn't know that, thanks for telling me!
Stellafreyja1 votesThis is a buff though, since the cooldown is being lowered, which is nice. :3
Earthpine1 votesOooh cool, but won't the buff become a nerf into late game? 1.5 instead of 2 seconds sounds pretty big to me.
CatSith1 votesYou only have to rank it once early game now and just rank W for human form damage/spider form Attack speed boost. Technically for me, its a buff to gameplay because since it was changed to 1/1.2/1.5/1.7/2, I picked E over her W.
Earthpine1 votesThat is true, if this slight buff comes through then you can max W but the cool down seems quite good, from 10 to 8 second at max rank.
Sightless661 votesProbably, but having a very strong early game is much, much more important to Elise than a bit of power late game is. She needs to be able to take control of a game and snowball it. Giving her more power to do that is a buff, even if it costs her a bit of her lategame.
Earthpine2 votesWell I already think she has an amazing early game, but sometimes it isn't enough to just snowball your lanes and sometimes the enemy will be really cautious about the ganks and then you automatically lose the game just because the enemy played safe :/
Sightless664 votesthen you automatically lose the game just because the enemy played safe :/
This is actually the exact reason why this Elise change is a buff overall. You're already losing the late game because you're just weak there. Being a bit weaker doesn't really matter if you're already one of the worst. However, an extra 0.5 seconds of stun can absolutely create opportunities against people who play overly safe early game. One of Elise's strengths is being able to threaten safe enemies without putting herself at risk. Improving that is much more significant to her than a bit of lost power lategame.
Sire Hippington1 votesthat will just revert her to the pre nerf state... Having a to dominant early but a lackluster late that forces you to snowball your early simly isn't good. Thats ehy she eas so overbearing in the past despite not reaching massive winrates, same with Lee. It just feels shit to play vs a earlygame monster, and it also feels shit to play in a team with a champ that has a clear experation date and becomes a liabillity in the late.
Haveing destinct powercurves is great, but if it gets to extreme, it becomes unhealthy.
Sightless661 votesShe already has an extreme powercurve, but she's not benefiting from it because she lacks sufficient early game strength to actually make up for a bad late game. Moving a small direction back towards her pre-nerf state is good for her. It's also one of the simplest possible changes. Any other change would require a lot more work, because you'd have to adjust the parts of the game where she's struggling and find something you can give her to make her not suck there.
Sire Hippington1 votesThe changes she needs do require alot work, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't happen. If they just put her back towards pre nerf, she will start to become a dominant pick in pro-play and still be mehh in soloQ, till she gets nerfed again...
'She already has an exttreme powercurve' is a poor excuse to shove her down that road even more rather than work on a real solution...
SpiritGear1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ace of Eden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htxpXZE5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-07T22:13:05.252+0000)
The stun for 1.5 seconds at all ranks is actually a revert. That's how Cocoon used to be until they tweaked it.
plus the missiles width
Paress2 votes[{quoted}](name=Ace of Eden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htxpXZE5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-07T22:13:05.252+0000)
The stun for 1.5 seconds at all ranks is actually a revert. That's how Cocoon used to be until they tweaked it.
Well Riot said they wanted to improve her late game ...
By removing 0.5 s stun.
Profirix4 votesThat proposed change won't do much to help her. It buffs the early gank potential, nerfs the late game potential a little. Doesn't address the gaping hole in her mid/late game transition and teamfight capability.
Earthpine2 votesI have to agree with you, I think Riot is just buffing her early game until it's the best early game out of all the champions in the game and then let her fall off late, but I don't want this to happen to my Elise :< I usually get to late game and lose because she just sucks HARD late and the teamfights are terrible.
SoMNia4 votesThis is a nerf. Not only is it less stun time versus cooldown, but between transformation and Rappel cast time, she NEEDED that full 2 seconds from max E to reach her target after stunning and make use of that bonus damage. I'm glad I didn't buy that skin for Elise. They seem intent on kicking her when she's down.
Hard4Hamsters1 votesI really don't like this change, honestly.
If you check Elise's winrate by what skills she maxes first, you'll notice that when she maxes W first she has a winrate of 44% in Platinum + in the jungle. Well over 50% of all players max W second. However, players that max E second have a 49% winrate at the same ELO, but only 16-18% of players use this skill order. And if you think about it, this makes a lot of sense with how much more you gain from E than W. W is an increase in damage in human form and attack speed in spider form. That's it, No CD reduction and no extra utility. Maxing E second gives you a longer stun on a shorter CD. It also decreases the CD of Rappel AND it increases the damage on your spider autos when you descend on an enemy target by 100% at max rank. You gain so much more from maxing E second, particularly with a tankier Elise build, which right now is more effective.
Now why is the change on the PBE bad? It is going to confuse people more than they are already for one. People are going to think that E is a one point wonder now, but there is so much more tied to E than stun duration. Now this will be a significant buff to her early game, but this is effectively yet ANOTHER nerf to her mid-lategame. You have less effective Stun time over the course of the CD on E with this change; 2/10 vs 1.5/8 with no CDR and 2/6 vs 1.5/4.8 at max CDR. It is minor, but the issue is that more people are going to forgo maxing E second and it is her major contribution in mid-late game teamfights.
Reason number 2. This has the potential to make her early game too strong. 1 second vs 1.5 seconds doesn't seem like much, but it is huge in the early parts of the game. An extra half second is extremely strong on someone with Elise's 100-0 potential in the early game. I am extremely afraid that this is going to lead to her receiving more nerfs as a result of her oppressive early game. She already falls off faster than Lee Sin, I really was hoping that they would target things that would help her transition past the early game, rather than completely front loading her entire being into the first 12 minutes of the game and then letting her suffer throughout the next 20 minutes.
So the best skill order is probably going to finally be what everybody is doing already. Q-->W-->E; though this is still debatable. I think Riot was trying to encourage people to max E second in the last patch when they added the bonus damage on her Spider E, but when nobody caught on that maxing E second was stronger, they decided that it was better to buff the skill order that most people are using.
Overall, I think this whole Elise event has been handled very poorly by Riot. They waited too long before doing anything about Elise, and when they finally did, it was at the worst possible time. With a new jungle item that they thought would be a buff to her, and with AP itemization changes just around the corner, they tried buffing Elise by boosting her sustain and giving her more incentive to max E second. Because it had been such a long time since Elise had been played with much frequency, her skill cap is relatively high when compared to the tank junglers dominating the meta, players trying out the possibly underpowered Runeglaive on her, and a last minute reduction in her sustain before the patch went live, her winrate went down after her "buffs" (just to be clear, her E change was a legitimate buff, but people weren't utilizing it as they were still maxing W before E; her sustain change, however, was not a real buff).
Now the AP itemization changes (Liandry's in particular) are about to be live, the rework of a jungler item in the Sated Devourer upgrade, and buffs on the PBE to her already strong early game are dangerous in that she might end up dominating as she will be unrivaled in the early game versus an influx of farm heavy junglers using Devourer. If the worst happens Elise might end up getting nerfed again. I honestly don't think this will be the case, but it's a worst case scenario that I am afraid of.
That's my rant. It's a little much to read, but if you do, I would appreciate it. I don't feel like the buff on the PBE is the right way to go, but we'll see what happens. Peace.
planters1 votesPersonally im not an elise player so take my words with a grain of salt, but I dont think this is going to be the worst change in the world. Now Elise will get more for 1 point w and have more pick potential later so I think it will be a mild mid-late game buff assuming you go qew. dont get me wrong, a shorter slow sucks, but more uptime means more potential to get it off and a nice new comeback mechanic if she fails the early to help get her team back late.
Hard4Hamsters1 votesWell if you use the uptime versus duration calculation. It's stronger to keep one point in E as compared to before, but it's about the same to go E max second when compared to the old numbers. You have more chances to stun over a considerable time period, but your stun duration is lower by level 12 and 13. As I already stated .5 seconds is a powerful duration increase for a stun and it goes both ways.
The buff that is on the PBE is almost purely for the early game, which will emphasize her current strength, but it still hurts her ability to transition into later parts of the game. I know the PBE isn't final (especially on the first day) but I think this isn't the right way to go.
Partholonian1 votesMaybe she's intended to have an early-heavy power curve, like what they used to say about Renekton before he stopped being played at all. Not a very reassuring comparison, but there it is.
Hard4Hamsters1 votesRenekton is just kinda out of flavor right now. He's still a really good laner, just not played as much. He actually doesn't fall off that hard as he has inherent tankiness and high base damages, meaning he can build tanky if behind and still be relevant to his team. However, he can snowball a lead very effectively if he gets ahead.
Compare that with Elise. Yes she can dominate early like Renekton, but what can she do when she's ahead? Her damage doesn't really increase well with AP, so building a lot of damage doesn't really help her snowball. She has VERY limited inherent tankiness as it is tied to her sustain in Spiderform, this is only really useful in the jungle though as the heal you get on hit is never going to be enough to help you sustain in a fight. So there is no real way to push your early advantages once the game goes past 20 minutes. She's a snowball champion who has trouble snowballing, and she has a lot of problems when she falls behind as she is a subpar fighter/tank.
She currently does have a very steep powercurve that is strongest in the earliest parts of the game. But after this change, it would be more comparable to a power-cliff. Her power will be almost entirely focused on her level 3-9. She won't gain much from leveling her other skills other than Q. You compare her to Renekton, but he has other abilities that get more power and utility while you level them. The power you gain on Elise from leveling W is already lackluster, and now leveling E is less important to increasing her power.
I've thought it over more and more, and I think this is a really powerful buff to her early game. I'm afraid that it is going to be too strong and we will face an Elise that is going to be oppressive in the early game. This probably won't be as potent in the current meta, but if the meta shifts to something that we have seen before, she has a chance to dominate the meta again. If this doesn't happen soon, she will either get more buffs or she will forever be underpowered. And if it does shift to early pressure junglers, she will possibly be too strong and get nerfed again. She really needs some of the power shifted in her kit before she can be strong without being oppressive as her kit is overloaded as is even if it is underpowered. Peace.
Keevalroy1 votesThank god. I actually wanted this Elise to come back (sorry for the forever stun comps) since I play tank Elise. Runeglaive makes me feel weak and fragile, and as a tank, I'm still weak and fragile but at least I can get some of the old CC back to make up for it.
Celeste Benal1 votesI pulled ehr out the other day when Runeglaive was released and found that it worked fine. She does nice damage with it. Build some 
boots and Luden's Echo.
Beldori1 votesIt is still early to see what else they will change so for now just wait and see
ShaftyMegee1 votesI agree, they need to tweak her skills a bit more, or at least make her repel not so clunky.
FastAsHeck1 votesi think it will allow her to put points into her other abilities while having a strong stun, so she will be effective even when she is not stun botting.
gaby1best1 votesOh, so now even less reasons to rank E.
Neo Cyrus1 votesIt's buff now? When they initially changed it from 1.5 seconds flat to 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 they spun it as a buff. So either change is a buff now? Thanks Riot. I like how in the patch notes whenever something is nerfed into oblivion they usually call it "changes" or if it's a minor nerf they'll call it a "buff". And by "like", I mean "disgusted by".
CoolKnightST1 votesI think this change will have some impact on her early game since she no longer has to max it earlyer and so basicly increasing her damage on her other abilities.
Dengeden1 votesErm, this will mean that Elise can put 1 point into her cocoon if all she wants to do is to stun 1 person. It's an indirect buff to her other abilities because she doesn't have to max E for it to have a relevant stun duration.
Sohleks1 votesBy buffing her rank one E from 1 sec duration to 1.5 all ranks it grants Elise access to more powerful CC the majority of the early game, and will allow her to max W second everytime now making her stronger early and mid game. So it in fact does the opposite of forcing her into stunbot in my opinion.
IDK, landing cocoon CC will always be an integral part of playing Elise.
Celeste Benal1 votesNah, she kinda needed it. Little more on the front end. Not quite so much on the back end.
Android Grimm1 votesWe're going to help Elise by making her not a stunbot. Immediately buffs the stun so she can be a better stunbot.
Earthpine1 votesThe story of my Elise buffs when I started maining her.
yukonl1 votesElise needs to snowball her team early in order to win, so in my opinion it's a small buff.
Vistha Kai1 votesThis is a revert to a "buff" that made her worth less than a minion.
pro crastinat0r1 votesif it is now 1.5 seconds at all ranks she now can put more points into her damage spells earlier in the game because 1 point in E will be the same stun as 5 points in E. Pretty decent buff to her early-mid game.