Can we not get trash players after winning streaks ?

Yi Bencheikh·May 15, 2017·53 votes·4,347 views

Please ? It might sound retarded or '' because i am low elo and i don't understand how the game works and i am a silver trash that has to git gud lul '' , i realised it many times , when i am on a 5 wins streak the 6th match i get autofilled + another autofilled people who were at a loosing streak = increasing my chance to lose , but why ? Are you telling me that you're going to force me to lose because i did not deserve to win the previous matches or what ? The autofill and that other crappy system are ruining ranked experience and especially at lower elos , this is just my opinion. i don't really like come to boards and rant about the gameplay but getting autofilled players really pisses me off :/

30 Comments

FrightningMay 15, 20179 votes

Individual performances are extremely variable game-to-game. Play against an opponent of comparable skill to your own and there's roughly equal odds that the lane will go any of 3 ways: -You will go roughly even -You will stomp your opponent -You will get stomped by your opponent It's a function of the way the game works, get an advantage, even a small one, and it's likely to lead a bigger and bigger advantage unless you fuck up or their team does something about it (successfully, I might add, attempting to do something about it and failing tends to make it FAR worse).

As for why matchmaking is designed to try and keep you around 50-50 win rate, that's not actually what it's designed to do, but what it's actually designed to (and that is: create 'fair' matches) tends to result in a natural 50-50 W-L rate. I put fair in quotes because fair doesn't mean the match will be close, only that you had about equal chances of winning it or losing it when you first entered champ select. What happens after that...can move those odds...potentially by a LOT.

DeadTranniesMay 15, 20174 votes

It seems like that but it's actually people that are better than you (higher ranking people) that you get matched against, that make your team mate's look bad because they're just better, you my friend would look like dog shit if you laned against a pro in your main role. it may seem like they find the bottom of barrel for you; but they just keep finding better opponents till you platoe, there's a reason that the high ranks smurfs are still in challenger they carry themselves there because the system can't find better opponents than themselves

Yi BencheikhMay 15, 20175 votes

check the match history and you'll see them on a loosing streak coincidence ? i think not

HalcyonDwellerMay 15, 20176 votes

http://i.imgur.com/ttu21FN.jpg

All joking aside though, it's just random chance who you get. Whether or not they are on a win/loss streak is not considered when the system decides to queue you together.

The system is not out to get you. Put the tin-foil hat away. It was a false alarm (and confirmation bias).

Fed by Snu SnuMay 15, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=lol baby ducks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hrXoNofF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-15T10:23:08.491+0000)

It seems like that but it's actually people that are better than you (higher ranking people) that you get matched against, that make your team mate's look bad because they're just better, you my friend would look like dog shit if you laned against a pro in your main role. it may seem like they find the bottom of barrel for you; but they just keep finding better opponents till you platoe, there's a reason that the high ranks smurfs are still in challenger they carry themselves there because the system can't find better opponents than themselves

Erm...what...

If someone is given a bot lane that is intended to lose, that is proving the OP right, not the opposite.

"Just beat them after they are 10/0, only then do you deserve to go up"

What a bunch of bs. People don't deserve to be given hyper-agressive feeders just because they did well.

RaiyzaMay 15, 20174 votes

It still doesn't make logical sense.

If I'm playing smart, outplaying my opponents, making smart decisions, why am I being punished for winning those games? Why do I have to lose all that LP i just won? Would't it just get tougher to win as you go up? Shouldn't that be the "Logical" way of balance? If i belong in Plat 4, then I should be stuck there. Not silver 1.

I'm currently s1, but I've been stuck there for a while now because I'll win 4 games in a row, then lose 5. Its fucking stupid. I can continue to outplay, but when my top and mid laners are getting stomped on, I can't carry that shit. Why can't I climb normally, then get stopped when my rank is where I should be?

HalcyonDwellerMay 15, 20171 votes

It's not punishing you. As your MMR increases you will get matched against better opponents. Getting good or bad teammates is just luck of the draw.

The system is not out to get you. The system trying to create 50% win-rate is a conspiracy theory.

YFisfabulousBRUHMay 17, 20171 votes

The problem is riot takes a person winning the last 4 of their games, and matches them up with people who's on a losing streak to "even out the mmr" so its basically 100 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 when the enemy team if 50+ 50+ 50 +50 +50. Do you see how thats not fair for the 100 person?

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

In situations where that happens, absolutely it would be unfair. But that is speculation, and it does not happen the majority of the time.

The system does not look at win-streaks and loss-streaks.

Order of events are as follows:

Your MMR is changed after a win/loss
System find people with similar MMR
You get matched with/against them because their MMR and yours is similar (or at least averages across the teams)

hint: it doesn't calculate who to match together from anything except MMR

MMR is a static variable. streaks affect that variable, but they are not directly connected to matchmaking.

AmazoXMay 15, 20173 votes

Agreed, Idk what's idea behind Match making keeping you at a solid 50% win-rate, You either get stomped hard by having terrible teammates or stomp the enemy because the difference between your allies and enemies in skill level is so huge (that's what she said) that you stomp them making them instantly ff @ 20.

Like why can we not have a solid Match making where you are put up against players depending on their and yours truly skill level? It's not like it's going to make queue times much longer, Even if it did to some extent (Which I find not happening due to them reaching 100 Million Players in 2016) It would make ALL the players much happier, And most importantly, Players will have a much more closer and intense heart-beating level of games that sparks pure excitement for everyone, It would also make players who keep losing acknowledge that they themselves got outplayed and would accept their own mistakes because It was a close game but not because of ''Retarded teammates vs Challenjour enemies''

I hate people who ask for up votes, Up vote if you agree (No kappa, Only KappaPride)

HalcyonDwellerMay 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Agreed, Idk what's idea behind Match making keeping you at a solid 50% win-rate,

Matchmaking does not try to keep you at a 50% winrate. It doesn't care about your winrate. It uses your MMR to match you against opponents. If you start winning games and climbing then you will get matched against opponents with higher MMR... Thus have harder games, and sometimes wind up losing more again.

You either get stomped hard by having terrible teammates or stomp the enemy because the difference between your allies and enemies in skill level is so huge (that's what she said) that you stomp them making them instantly ff @ 20.

Getting good/bad teammates or opponents is luck of the draw, because sometimes people smurf or are tilted and these are outside factors that the system can't identify.

Like why can we not have a solid Match making where you are put up against players depending on their and yours truly skill level? It's not like it's going to make queue times much longer, Even if it did to some extent (Which I find not happening due to them reaching 100 Million Players in 2016) It would make ALL the players much happier, And most importantly, Players will have a much more closer and intense heart-beating level of games that sparks pure excitement for everyone,

I agree completely here, I would rather have longer queue times for more closely matched games. I personally wish they would implement a baseline MMR and then apply some kind of balancing multiplier for each role so that you are matched more fairly no matter what role you got.

It would also make players who keep losing acknowledge that they themselves got outplayed and would accept their own mistakes because It was a close game but not because of ''Retarded teammates vs Challenjour enemies''

Unfortunately players who are in denial about their fault in their win-rate are not going to magically be fixed if one of their excuses disappears. They will just find something else to blame.

AmazoXMay 15, 20171 votes

Uhm where are you getting your information from? Because everyone acknowledges that the system tries its best to keep you at a steady 50% win rate.

HalcyonDwellerMay 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Uhm where are you getting your information from?

Occam's Razor. Logic. See my explanation after the divider. Where are you getting your assumptions from?

Because everyone acknowledges that the system tries its best to keep you at a steady 50% win rate.

This is wrong because something is not necessarily true even if everyone believes it. Everyone believed the earth was flat in medieval times, yet the earth has always been round. Also, just because you claim that everyone thinks something does not mean that they do. You cannot speak for everyone (and claiming such is very presumptuous IMO).

Fact 1: Matchmaking finds you teammates and opponents to balance MMRs for the team. Fact 2: If your MMR goes up, it will try to match you against opponents with higher MMR than it did before. Fact 3: winstreaks dramatically increase how much MMR you gain.

Thus, winning many games in a row puts you at a higher MMR, against better opponents. It's the result of climbing, not of the system looking for ways to screw you. The system is impartial and it is not that intelligent, it probably isn't even an AI (Would need sources to prove the AI thing, it's just a speculation for now).

Another thing to consider is how you get screwed by matchmaking. Lets look at several situations, each resulting from the above assumption that your MMR jumped recently.

First example, your MMR is up and you are the highest skill player on your team. Matchmaking puts the highest MMR player on the enemy team in a different lane than you (this is really common regardless of if you are the best on your team). If that player snowballs better than your team, then you can bet your teammates are going to get screwed, because they are laning against someone more skilled than them.

Second example, your MMR is up, and you get matched roughly evenly but are playing with and against higher skill levels than you did before. You have less impact on the outcome of the game than before because the opponents are not as weak as before (more skilled, making less mistakes, and better at capitalizing on your team's mistakes) and thus it is harder for you to carry.

Lets do a third example more along the lines of the system actually screwing you. You get matched and the teams are even MMR-wise, however the enemy team has two people who are on winning streaks while you are the only one on your team who's on fire and climbing today, everyone else is steady except for one player who is on a losing-streak and is tilted from their last game. Guess what? The system didn't factor win-streaks and losing-streaks when calculating average MMRs for comparison. It just looks at MMR. Thus, it didn't pay attention to outside factors such as win-rate or streaks.

CaveslothMay 16, 20171 votes

Ok explain this one to me, just played a game after a 6 game win streak where the enemy team was 3 Gold Vs, a Gold III, and a SilverIV. My team was a Bronze II, and 4 SilverVs. How in the sam hell is that even close to fair? Don't get me wrong, I'm flattered that the game thinks I can win vs a team full of golds as a Bronze II, but to do as with a team of SilverVs? It'd be ok if the game gave us worse teammates to see if we can carry or put us against better opponents, but doing both is pretty harsh. This happens to me every time I'm on a even a small win-streak (several of the games before this had similar lopsidedness, this is just the first one i lost).

HalcyonDwellerMay 16, 20171 votes

I'm sorry you've had those experiences, it sucks. I completely understand.

It's possible the enemies were on a losing streak and thus their MMR was lowered. Or you might have had a teammate (or several) with higher MMR than their rank. The problem is that there isn't much clarity with MMR vs. Rank. The enemy might be Gold rank with Bronze 4 MMR and we would have no way to tell.

CaveslothMay 17, 20171 votes

I think the problem lies in the fact that MMR can swing so quickly you have these kind of matchups. Wherein a team of all silver players, who play like silver players, are facing gold players playing like gold players, so its ridiculously one sided.

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

That's definitely a possibility, maybe the system should slow down MMR's rate of change.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 15, 20173 votes

I'll leave one comment, instead of 20 replies… #There is no conspiracy to keep you at 50% win/loss That happens because of the way any ELO system works. Eventually you hit a point where you are tied with your skill, or you exceed it, in MMR. At that point, you will naturally balance out to a 50/50 win rate. If you exceed it, you will naturally have a losing streak to balance you back at an even skill:MMR ratio. This is how it works. LEAGUE DOES NOT GIVE YOU RANDOM WINS OR LOSSES TO KEEP YOU AT 50%. Just because you get a losing streak after a winning one means nothing beyond that your MMR surpassed your actual skill level. Even if your skill puts you at Diamond 1, you may experience this balance at a far lower rank. This is because your rank has not yet caught up to your MMR. To determine your rank, your MMR is compared to League's expectations for what someone of your current rank would be. If it's equal, you'll gain and lose the same amount. If actual MMR is higher, you gain more LP than you lose. If expected MMR is higher, you'll lose more than you'll gain.

HalcyonDwellerMay 15, 20173 votes

When you win your MMR goes up, and you get matched against better opponents.

I get that people hate losing, but you've got to realize that eventually you will wind up playing against people who are better than you. Going on a win-streak just increases that chance.

Autofill and getting matched with teammates who are on losing streaks are both things which have nothing to do with the matchmaking system's decision process. It doesn't care if your teammates are on win streaks or loss streaks, it doesn't care if you are on a win streak or a loss streak. It will simply match you with a roughly fair balance across the teams.

Should ranked matchmaking take autofill into account? Possibly. But that is a separate issue.

DeadTranniesMay 15, 20172 votes

That would be because they hit top of their curve and their way back down to people of equal skill please read my above statement to see how the system match makes, pretty similar for any matchmaking in any multiplayer game, once they lose enough match's they'll be at the bottom of their curve and facing worse players so their w/r then improves it's a tug o war until you get good enough to keep climbing past better opponents.

DeadTranniesMay 15, 20172 votes

Inting/trolling happens in every single level of play from Bronze 5 to rank 1 that's just plain irrelevant

YokoNomiMay 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=lol baby ducks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hrXoNofF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-15T10:32:27.713+0000)

Inting/trolling happens in every single level of play from Bronze 5 to rank 1 that's just plain irrelevant

I'm not understanding the logic here. If the game snowballs due to inting/trolling, that's irrelevant even if it results in a loss? I'd lost plenty of games due to toxic/trolling/inting in the past, and I can garuntee you that the opportunity to be the player to somehow turn that around is pretty friggin' minuscule.

Avios1May 15, 20172 votes

Sadly, this happens a bit too much. I was able to have the "lovely" opportunity to go on an 8-game win streak, getting back to plat3. Promptly after winning one more, lost about 5 games and got demoted back to Plat4.

Luckily, I'm climbing again, but this is just ridiculous. Autofill shouldn't exist honestly.

sta supraMay 15, 20172 votes

Not exactly sure how it works but this is the most logical way ranked works.

Games are matched based on your mmr. Meaning when your on a winning streak your mmr increases faster then your lp so you get matched with lower teammates to compensate. This is to create more fair, and hopefully more fun (back and forth games are the most fun to play). This does NOT mean thet riot is screwing you over because your mmr is higher then your ranl so your going to gain lp(loss a game loss 5 lp then win a game and gain 30 lp).

gottrjrMay 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Barrel Simulator,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hrXoNofF,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-15T09:58:20.668+0000)

Please ? It might sound retarded or '' because i am low elo and i don't understand how the game works and i am a silver trash that has to git gud lul '' , i realised it many times , when i am on a 5 wins streak the 6th match i get autofilled + another autofilled people who were at a loosing streak = increasing my chance to lose , but why ? Are you telling me that you're going to force me to lose because i did not deserve to win the previous matches or what ? The autofill and that other crappy system are ruining ranked experience and especially at lower elos , this is just my opinion. i don't really like come to boards and rant about the gameplay but getting autofilled players really pisses me off :/

This happens to me too. My new plan is to try to keep my winrate around 55-60% to avoid this.

NíbbaBíbbaMay 16, 20171 votes

usually the way I think about it each team has good medium and bad players, not everyone will be equal so as you rack up they put you at the top of the team and therefor most players on your team will preform worse but that's just a theory a game theory

NrustyKripplesMay 16, 20171 votes

Game 1 - Good team/no autofill Game 2 - Good team/no autofill Game 3 - Good team/no autofill Game 4 - Good team/no autofill Game 5 - Good team/no autofill Game 6 - Bad team/ autofill

Fucking bullshit matchmaking rito fix ur shit making me lose on porpoise

KVbqbFsC8eMay 16, 20171 votes

I wish I had the luxury of getting trash players only during win streaks.

ÇhåryzårdMay 16, 20171 votes

I just posted about this earlier,

but I feel like every single time I get promoted I go on a losing streak, the worst being I got promoted to Silver 4 and then lost 5 games and got demoted back down to Silver 5.

I always go on a losing streak for a couple games every time I am promoted