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Rylais vs Rabadon on Vlad

WitchQueen Annie··1 votes·926 views

Most pros seem to build Rylais on Vlad as the first major AP item. Very few people build Rabadon as first major AP item.

Should you though?

Rylais is a good item on Vlad, it has tons of synergy with the kit... it slows all enemies (giving Vlad a ton of instantaneous non-skill-shot perma slow), it allows him to kite targets and lock down targets for the team, it also has the bonus of going health on top of 100 AP which synergies with his E health scaling.

However, Rabadon gives you 120 AP + 1/3 of all of your max AP. That is a TON of damage. Usually, you already have a Zhonyas or a Hextech Belt built before (since you need max CDR as Vlad) and so getting this item gives you a lot more AP than going Rylais. It basically allows you to nuke your targets if you reach them.

I find that I prefer Rabadon. The game is usually decided either before or around the time you hit 3 major items in the build. Hence the choice of the first major AP item is huge. If you go Rylais first before getting Rabadon you're not dealing as much AP damage as you can in the time frame that really counts. I'm not sure you can afford it in such a fast meta. With Rabadon, you don't have perma-slow so it will be a bit harder to kite but the new Vlad is more like a dive champ anyways (someone who rushes in with Ghost and then stays in range of his attackers to deal damage while taking damage to maximise AOE output), kiting really isn't necessary.

Contrary to popular opinion, you also don't need Rylais to stay on top of a squishy target. If you take Stormraider's Surge, one E on the target gives you a movement speed boost which is usually enough for you to follow up for a kill. Your overall damage output is so much higher with a Rabadon than with Rylais.

What do you think though? Prioritise Rylais or Rabadon on Vlad?

10 Comments

Sightless662 votes

Rylai's. Vlad's passive and HP ratios mean that the difference between rabadon's and rylai's in terms of damage output is significantly smaller than it is for other champions, which shifts the equation heavily in favor of Rylai's. It gives him way more frontline survivability and utility, which let him stay in range to put out damage longer in a fight. Vlad rarely gets to kill enemies very quickly regardless of his build, and you need to be on the frontline, so you tend to get more use out of an item that gives you a better ability to stay there and keep healing than you do out of an item that throws all your eggs into the instagib basket.

If I'm squishy, I'm taking a risk of things going wrong. I can die from getting bursted down. The only reason I choose to be squishy is if my damage massively decreases if I am not squishy, but because I am vlad, my damage is altered relatively little between a squishy build and a tanky build. If I'm unkillable and inescapable and still output huge damage, the enemy has no chance to respond to me and it is much harder for things to go wrong.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

Rylai's. Vlad's passive and HP ratios mean that the difference between rabadon's and rylai's in terms of damage output is significantly smaller than it is for other champions, which shifts the equation heavily in favor of Rylai's. It gives him way more frontline survivability and utility, which let him stay in range to put out damage longer in a fight. Vlad rarely gets to kill enemies very quickly regardless of his build, and you need to be on the frontline, so you tend to get more use out of an item that gives you a better ability to stay there and keep healing than you do out of an item that throws all your eggs into the instagib basket.

If I'm squishy, I'm taking a risk of things going wrong. I can die from getting bursted down. The only reason I choose to be squishy is if my damage massively decreases if I am not squishy, but because I am vlad, my damage is altered relatively little between a squishy build and a tanky build. If I'm unkillable and inescapable and still output huge damage, the enemy has no chance to respond to me and it is much harder for things to go wrong.

Fair enough.

But you do realise that even with Vlad's health ratio for E AND Crimson Pact that Rab still gives a TON more damage?

Let's assume your building Rylais or Rabadon as the first item right after Spirit Visage and Zhonyas (so the first thing you're building after you've hit a high CDR count).

Lets ignore starting AP and Health as well as Runes and Masteries.

BEFORE the damage item you have from SV and Zhonyas (500 health from SV + 70 health from Zhonyas from Crimson Pact) and (70 AP from Zhonyas + ~12 AP from Spirit Visage from Crimson Pact). So that's 570 Health and 82 AP. Ignoring the base number from E (its independent of itemisation), your E will hit at 57 + (82 x 0.70) = ~114

So in a casual situation, your E will deal 114 AP damage at 2 items when you're deciding whether to then go for Rylais or Rabadon (it will be different if you're going for the damage item second or where instead of Zhonyas you went Abyssal or Hextech Belt instead but it doesn't really matter for illustrating the point). So 114 AP... with 82 AP from the items.

Now lets see what building Rylais and Rabadon add on to those numbers.

Rylais (400 health and 100 AP and 100 points of Health from Crimson Pact, 10 points of AP from Crimson Pact): You gain 50 points of damage for health and 80 points of damage from the AP. 50 + 80 is 130. So you're essentially adding 130 to the existing damage (114).

130 is the key number here (its the damage gain from the Rylais 3rd item buy).

Rabadon (120 AP + 33% of total AP + the exact same number of the two previously added numbers as Health from Crimson Pact):
Remember that we've established that you have 82 AP from the previous items. (120 AP + 82 AP) x 0.33 = ~66 AP So the AP portion is 120 + 66 = 186. The health portion from Crimson Pact would be 10% of 186 which is ~18. 186 + 18 = 204. So you're adding 204 to the existing damage (114).

So what does this mean?

Even if you ignore masteries and runes (which will likely provide more AP somewhere giving even more damage to Rabadon)... in a situation where you started out with SV and Zhonyas....

Buying Rylais next gives you 130 extra damage.

Buying Rabadon give you a 204 extra damage.

Its a HUGE difference. There's over 60 points of difference in damage.

And this is just looking at E. If you're looking at the there abilities (the Ultimate and the Qs which don't scale off Health at all... Rabadon is even more insane).

So I dunno... you're willing to give up 60 points of damage from each and every E you can land in exchange for Perma-Slow capability?

And also get reduced damage from Qs and Rs?

I dunno... Its quite a hefty price...

Sightless662 votes

Firat, i have to critique your calculations. Comparing rabadons to rylai's directly is not valid becuase they have different costs. I do not have a rabadon's or a rylai's. I have a rabadon's, or a rylai's +600 gold. That needs to be accounted for. Even with just an amp tome, the math is significantly altered.

Second, I will gladly give up damage per e for rylai's, because i will get more off in a fight since i did not die as quickly as a rabadon's builder will. The more hp I have, the more i can cast and i can heal. I'm not playing for a burst fight. I need to sustain through fights. In a straight damage trade, i will get my ass handed to me. Just on that alone i can judge rylai's to be superior, and that isn't even counting the value that the slow adds.

Besides, if all i wanted was damage, I would buy void staff over rabadon's anyway. Vlad has base damages that are high in comparison to his relatively mediocre ap ratios, making magic pen the more effective damage item.

So, yeah. Rylai's every time. It honestly isn't even a question for me. The damage is not beneficial enough to make up for what i am losing. It just doesn't help me do my job as much as a highly defensive item will. Rabadon's still works fine, but i don't have any doubt that is generally the inferior purchase. I would only make it a priority if the enemy had 3+ sources of ranged dps, and sustained fighting just was not an option.

Quepha2 votes

1/3 of your maximum AP when you don't have any other AP items is not actually a lot of AP. If Rabadon's Deathcap is your only source of AP, then it's actually gold INefficent (92.72% efficiency) compared to a simple pile of NLR's, Blasting wands, and Amp. Tomes of the same total price.

Rylai's is gold efficient (102% efficiency) for the price, is cheaper by the time you finish the item (3200 gold vs. 3800 for rabadon's), and gives you a better mix of damage and durability which Vlad depends on. And I haven't even talked about the slow passive which is just so essential to making Vlad's kit work better.

Rylai's is more important than Rabadon's, especially early in your item build.

swiftsnipe1 votes

AOE slow is way more valuable than the extra little bit of dmg

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

AOE slow is way more valuable than the extra little bit of dmg

Maybe in coordinated professional/upper tier play (where you can count on team to follow up appropriately)?

I find that in a lot of games things tend to be so chaotic that I have to end up doing most of the work when playing Vlad. Hence I'd rather make sure I delete the target I reach with a burst of AP while sacrificing a great deal of utility and peel.

swiftsnipe1 votes

that's a decision u have to make.

I would take a permaslow over burst almost any day.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

Maybe in coordinated professional/upper tier play (where you can count on team to follow up appropriately)?

It's at least as important in normal games when you're more likely to catch someone out of position and Rylai's allows you to just kite them forever without giving them a chance to get away.

SaltyKracka1 votes

Rylai's.

Always Rylai's.

Vlad's manaless, spammy, tanky kit synergizes amazingly with it.

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