Aatrox need some serious balance work

Macilento··60 votes·4,368 views

Aatrox is mostly fine early game, and is kit is okay but... You can build him tanky, full dmg, a hybrid of the two, but he can't do any of those things efficently.

If you build hybrid, lategame you will do no dmg and you dont resist much compared to other bruisers, if you build full damage you do good early but then you get instashotted and you lategame dmg is suboptimal anyway. If you build full tannk you do 0 dmg and lategame you will get pretty much isntashotted anyway...

I don't know what is the couse of this but if he is intended to be a bruiser like champion, he is off the mark in terms of balance.

59 Comments

awsumlad12 votes

I agree that he is in a bad place role wise, as he is unsure what he wants to be, but I find it completly infuriating the way his q interacts with any cc at all, you literally can't jump away from anything, the animation takes so long u can't dodge wth it and seems to tell the game you're still in the place you jumped from until u land back on the ground. It is really really clunky when it comes to trying to get out of orianna ult and viktors w stun, and what looks to be a great tool to escape ganks or jungle invades is actually rubbish.

Orbv1 votes

This is the reason I stopped playing him when I originally used him to escape bronze. A garen can land a Q on you standing at your original location while you are half-way to your destination...it really sucks. They might has well give him a dash, because the animation is very misleading.

Baron of Bread4 votes

I think the idea with his Q is that it isn't supposed to be an escape tool. Nothing about Aatrox's lore or VO make it seem like he would have or want an escape. Aatrox isn't some cowardly Tryndamere spinning away from a fight, Aatrox literally dives into combat.

Baron of Bread1 votes

Nice thread. Got my +1.

AmightyT3 votes

I hate this kind of reasoning. Balance and the ability to enjoy playing should always go over the whims of lore.

Baron of Bread1 votes

I honestly prefer Aatrox having bad escape mechanics, mostly for the same reason I don't like playing Lee Sin. Aatrox feels like a challenge to play because you have to be careful to not make any mistakes so you think about things before you act (or just throw thought to the wind and go ham because that is a lot of fun too). I feel Aatrox is more fun because he has no get out of jail free cards.

AmightyT1 votes

As soon as he is in a good spot, I'll be all for adding windows of opportunity, but right now Aatrox isn't in a good place and that would help get him to where he needs to be.

TheDevice11 votes

There will be people who will defend this guy's underpoweredness just because. And they don't even play him. He's so bad. Other champions can get away clean with being tanky and bursty and mobile but not aatrox. He's so bad. So so bad.

And the game REVOLVES around burst. Yi has burst, Jax has burst, Tryn just has a better ultimate compared to aatrox' passive. Aatrox is only relevant at killing minions and then he just gets bursted down like dust. If you build tanky, he does no damage and is not meant (kit and base stats) in any way to be a full on tank.

I wanted this champ to be good. I really did. You see the same thing with vlad. He falls off hard late game and needs to get fed early and have an early win. This makes for bad solo queue but is also never seen in teams since they are both easily countered and shut down............................ unlike nasus.

I just don't see the appeal of this guy as much anymore. His passive is just so underwhelming in the big picture since he's pretty much an easy target afterward.

Who cares play riven

Rinky Dinky6 votes

Uh, Vlad is a competitive pick right now....

Orbv1 votes

I hope you weren't insinuating that Vlad "Falls off hard late game".

Also Aatrox has much more burst than Yi as well as Jax. His initiating burst is Q, R, procc'ed W, into E. He also has versatility in whatever skill is chosen to be leveled up first..

lvl 6 Burst: 145 + 200 + 60 + 70 + 220% bonus AD + 160% AP If maxing E = 475 + 220% bAD + 160%AP 130 + 75 + 70 + 200 + 220% bonus AD + 160% AP if maxing W = 475 + 220% bAD + 160%AP

lvl 18 Burst: 400 + 215 + 200 + 250 = 1065 + 220% bAD + 160%AP

Jax does less burst lvl6 burst 110 + 70 + 50 + 100 = **330 **+ 150% bAD + 190% AP lvl 18 burst 220 + 150 + 180 + 230 = **780 **+ 150% bAD + 190% AP

Master Yi Lvl 18 burst **165 **+ **30 **True Damage + 160% AD + 20% AD True Damage

I have no idea where you got the idea that Aatrox has no burst. ALL he has is burst and sustain. After the initial burst, he relies on healing to win him a fight. If he misses all of his burst, he'll die to anyone with sustain.

Not saying he's good, but you significantly downplayed his second greatest strength.

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

{quoted}

There will be people who will defend this guy's underpoweredness just because. And they don't even play him. He's so bad. Other champions can get away clean with being tanky and bursty and mobile but not aatrox. He's so bad. So so bad.

people do that every single time, these forums work like that

i have trouble asking for buffs for any single champ that is not Elise, Ashe, MF, Varus or Aatrox: everything else will just get downvoted by those guys

Ace Access 5 votes

he needs to scale better in the late game

maybe make his W increase his armor and mr based on missing HP, and the damage mitigation increases the lower his HP is

also this is a crazy idea but make his W heal/damage every hit for the duration of the ult, the damage and healing from this is lower than the usual amount

Crett4 votes

Agree. He scales well, but honestly he wants too many stats. He wants attack speed, attack damage, AND he wants to be tanky to survive the intial burst I think a really good buff would be refreshing his W every 3 seconds he goes without attacking. This gives him more inital burst or sustain without affecting his numbers and make trades easier in lane

Schlachsahne763 votes

I agree, he falls off lategame.

Angelofchaos16x2 votes

{quoted}

I agree, he falls off lategame.

He fall of the moment he loads into the game.....

The5lacker3 votes

The problem is when Aatrox was dominant, he was DOMINANT. He was a right pain in the ass for a while there. Most of this is because a little bit of tankiness and his W's triple-strength heal when below 50% health made him practically unkillable on top of his passive. To buff Aatrox, a few things need to happen.

  1. W's heal needs to be adjusted to +2% strength for each 1% Health missing, so he only gets the truly massive heals at low health. Being at 50% Health still grants him a hefty 100% bonus on his heal, but he can no longer just maintain at 50% forever.

  2. Aatrox's base damage need to be chopped down a tad, but he needs far, far better scalings. 60% bonus AD on BOTH of his basic damaging abilities?

A few other issues I'd consider tweaking:

  1. W only working ever 3rd attack gimps Aatrox's damage output for short trades. W should apply (obviously not at current numbers) to each swing. Saving up for a hopeful burst with harassment doesn't really work with melee champs, so give him more reliable power.

  2. Blood Well and the health costs on Aatrox's abilities are currently...very poorly designed. It rewards him for quickly filling his bar for engagements, which requires health, which cuts into his damage and reduces his trading ability as he drops in health. Just...I don't even. I don't know how, but the entire system needs to be scrapped and go back to the drawing board. None of it feels like this ancient avatar of war.

Macilento1 votes

{quoted}

The problem is when Aatrox was dominant, he was DOMINANT. He was a right pain in the ass for a while there. Most of this is because a little bit of tankiness and his W's triple-strength heal when below 50% health made him practically unkillable on top of his passive. To buff Aatrox, a few things need to happen.

  1. W's heal needs to be adjusted to +2% strength for each 1% Health missing, so he only gets the truly massive heals at low health. Being at 50% Health still grants him a hefty 100% bonus on his heal, but he can no longer just maintain at 50% forever.

  2. Aatrox's base damage need to be chopped down a tad, but he needs far, far better scalings. 60% bonus AD on BOTH of his basic damaging abilities?

A few other issues I'd consider tweaking:

  1. W only working ever 3rd attack gimps Aatrox's damage output for short trades. W should apply (obviously not at current numbers) to each swing. Saving up for a hopeful burst with harassment doesn't really work with melee champs, so give him more reliable power.

  2. Blood Well and the health costs on Aatrox's abilities are currently...very poorly designed. It rewards him for quickly filling his bar for engagements, which requires health, which cuts into his damage and reduces his trading ability as he drops in health. Just...I don't even. I don't know how, but the entire system needs to be scrapped and go back to the drawing board. None of it feels like this ancient avatar of war.

Yeah need to agree with that

DisasterSola2 votes

Ahem

Tank: item 3068 item 3156 item 3143 item 3065 item 3111 item 3512

AD: item 3035 item 3153 item 3074 item 3068 item 3156 item 3111

Hybrid: item 3068 item 3156 item 3143 item 3142 item 3111 item 3065

Edit: Aatrox support is also rather good if you build a smidgeon of damage, some utility, and about half tank.

pericles4291 votes

{quoted}

Ahem

Tank: item 3068 item 3156 item 3143 item 3065 item 3111 item 3512

AD: item 3035 item 3153 item 3074 item 3068 item 3156 item 3111

Hybrid: item 3068 item 3156 item 3143 item 3142 item 3111 item 3065

Edit: Aatrox support is also rather good if you build a smidgeon of damage, some utility, and about half tank.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH NO ZEPHYR???? OK KID LMAO

AATROX SUPPORT?????? LITERALLY STOP KID HAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHJAJAJKDHFJKSDHFJKSDHFIUOSEOIH DNSJVS

ShadowParker2 votes

Way to be a d*ck

LadyRenly2 votes

Aatrox is annoying, with a free GA passive, I secretly hope him and Zac stay in the pits of Oblivion forever. Completely unfair? Yeah, but the less I see of them, the better. The few Aatroxs I have seen have been god tier anyway, annihilating anyone and everything

ZacsRealm4 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox is annoying, with a free GA passive, I secretly hope him and Zac stay in the pits of Oblivion forever. Completely unfair? Yeah, but the less I see of them, the better. The few Aatroxs I have seen have been god tier anyway, annihilating anyone and everything

Aatrox maybe, but Zac's passive blobs die in like 2 seconds. Especially in lategame.

Macilento5 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox maybe, but Zac's passive blobs die in like 2 seconds. Especially in lategame.

Aatrox lategame passive is useful as a butt without a hole.... You die jsut to be stucked there and die 2 secs later

Kingsgrave2 votes

Why play him over XinZhao Irelia Tryndamere Trundle?

Thats always going to be his problem until he gets reworked. He doesn't bring anything new and interesting to the sustained fighter archetype and he has too much counterplay against himself with nothing to really show for it. He is a jack of all trades master of none.

TheDevice2 votes

Sad thing is, they just combined a series of old concepts Tryndamere+XinZhao+insert generic aa champ= Aatrox. Like if the whole arcade style was so successful with riven why didnt they make aatrox the new type of bruiser with a similar playstyle. But... wvter.. Almost enuff to buy riven anyways :D

Katariken2 votes

Personal advices (sorry for my bad english... t.t):

  • remove the "buff" on aatrox ultimate and transfer it on his Q, for every enemy hit.
  • ultimate restore HP, based on his "Blood Well"

Don't blame me...plserino t.t

Tibberino2 votes

My advice might not be useful, but when Aatrox first came out I played a few games and carried with him, and basically all I did was just build him the same way you'd build Master Yi.

As the guy said above me, don't initiate. Aatrox should hop in mid fight once major cooldowns are blown where he can just kill everyone with 3 crits to the face. The main problem with people who play melee carries is they don't know when to engage and when to stay back, they just hop in like "DIE BITCH" when the enemy team has all their ultimates and CC up, instead of waiting for an opportune moment to wreck shit. I had this problem too way back when I first started playing MOBAs which was in Heroes of Newerth. I'd literally jump in to the middle of the fight as soon as it began and die every time, until a player told me "dude, wait till mid fight then come in", then I started winning games with melee carries.

I think people look at Aatrox and just for some reason assume he's a tank, and he isn't. He's large and can be hard to kill, but that doesn't make him a tank. Sejuani is a tank. Sion is a tank. Aatrox is not. He's a fighter who can sustain and survive a long time, but only if you're playing him properly, which is why it's listed as his secondary role. You can soak up damage and survive as long as you're not going full retard Rambo.

Baron of Bread1 votes

My favorite part of Aatrox is when you have your passive up so you can go ham at the start and then get back up and wreck face.

I Main Swain2 votes

huge problem with his w too. when you get higher atk speed, it slows the animation a ton, thusly slowing his atk speed.

lostbob1171 votes

Tank Jungle Aatrox is strong atm. His Q is so useful and does good dmg without any dmg.

Macilento1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ezreal Edgeworth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hozgbzlN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-03-31T11:14:17.217+0000)

Tank Jungle Aatrox is strong atm. His Q is so useful and does good dmg without any dmg.

Yes with jungle aatrox i do very well too, but with lane aatrox its horrible

Evandir1 votes

People don't understand aatrox. If you are getting "instabursted" lategame, that means you haven't adjusted your playstyle to your build and your team.
Before i start my explanation of how you play aatrox, I'm going to tell you the most important thing not to do... DO NOT initiate fights. That is why you are being instabursted.

There's four key aspects to keep in mind while playing aatrox.

What is your team comp like? Did you get fed? What is their team comp like? How did you build

I usually wouldnt bring aatrox onto any team that doesn't already have a strong initiator tank(Amumu, Mao, Leona) because it forces you to build very tanky so that you can take on the role of a tank, and that isn't his strongest role. if this is the case, you have to keep in mind that just because you are built as a tank, it doesn't mean you just jump into the enemy team whenever you can land a q, you will usually need to wait for your mage to make a pick, or counterengage on their tank with an effective bork frozen mallet combo. Whenever i build this I consider myself the guardian for my team. When the enemy tank/ bruiser/assassin jumps in, I q them, pop my ult, and slow them with my e and auto's. This gives your team plenty of time to position, and focus the now perma slowed attacker, while you are probably at the front of the battle. You will be tanky enough to outlast him with your randuins, spirit visage, possible GA and heals. you can now turn on the enemy( you will probably die, but as long as you CC'd the enemy carries after you killed off their first attacker your team will probably be able to kill the valuable targets with their tank killed off, and you come back to life, ready to disrupt the enemy in the final stages of the battle.

Did you get fed? I win my lane 90% of the time with aatrox so probably, yes. Your first item should always be either a hydra or bork. I'm not sure how to explain when i decide to go which one, it just depends on who you're lane matchup and how the enemy team comp is. If you are fed, the second item is crucial to how you will develop into the lategame. I look at my team and i say, ok does my team need utility? frozen mallet as a second item will provide lots of utility will also helping me snowball the midgame with extreme chase potential. Is the enemy team naturally beefy? last whisper. Do you need to be tankier? I like to buy just the wardens mail for the armor, and then complete spirit visage. It gives you all around more solid defenses while also increasing your heals. Is your team lacking in physical damage in general?(ex. blue build ez has lots of utility, but doesn't put out as much upfront damage as a vayne.) I might build a phantom dancer or an IE(IE only if you have bork instead of hyrda) This is going to give you all the damage you need, but you need to keep in mind that until you get some tanky items, you will pop like a balloon if you get focused, so you need to use the range from your ult to your advantage in teamfights. Never jump in unless the fight is almost over.

tldr if you think aatrox isn't good you probably haven't put in the time to learn what you should and shouldn't do with him.

TheDevice1 votes

Now, I don't want to sound like a complete and utter dashbarg

I'm wondering why when you have 32/30 W/L with aatrox that you believe he's in a great spot. This is a super cereal question. Now, I'm not saying what you're saying about him isn't true, but even so, why defend his current state when as your main champ you are obviously struggling with him?

Evandir1 votes

To be honest, the skill inconsistency of gold is ridiculous. I can stomp my laner extremely hard, but if my botlane goes 0/10 there's nothing aatrox can do if he doesn't have a team behind him. he takes all the focus and crumbles.

Macilento1 votes

{quoted}

People don't understand aatrox. If you are getting "instabursted" lategame, that means you haven't adjusted your playstyle to your build and your team.
Before i start my explanation of how you play aatrox, I'm going to tell you the most important thing not to do... DO NOT initiate fights. That is why you are being instabursted.

There's four key aspects to keep in mind while playing aatrox.

What is your team comp like? Did you get fed? What is their team comp like? How did you build

I usually wouldnt bring aatrox onto any team that doesn't already have a strong initiator tank(Amumu, Mao, Leona) because it forces you to build very tanky so that you can take on the role of a tank, and that isn't his strongest role. if this is the case, you have to keep in mind that just because you are built as a tank, it doesn't mean you just jump into the enemy team whenever you can land a q, you will usually need to wait for your mage to make a pick, or counterengage on their tank with an effective bork frozen mallet combo. Whenever i build this I consider myself the guardian for my team. When the enemy tank/ bruiser/assassin jumps in, I q them, pop my ult, and slow them with my e and auto's. This gives your team plenty of time to position, and focus the now perma slowed attacker, while you are probably at the front of the battle. You will be tanky enough to outlast him with your randuins, spirit visage, possible GA and heals. you can now turn on the enemy( you will probably die, but as long as you CC'd the enemy carries after you killed off their first attacker your team will probably be able to kill the valuable targets with their tank killed off, and you come back to life, ready to disrupt the enemy in the final stages of the battle.

Did you get fed? I win my lane 90% of the time with aatrox so probably, yes. Your first item should always be either a hydra or bork. I'm not sure how to explain when i decide to go which one, it just depends on who you're lane matchup and how the enemy team comp is. If you are fed, the second item is crucial to how you will develop into the lategame. I look at my team and i say, ok does my team need utility? frozen mallet as a second item will provide lots of utility will also helping me snowball the midgame with extreme chase potential. Is the enemy team naturally beefy? last whisper. Do you need to be tankier? I like to buy just the wardens mail for the armor, and then complete spirit visage. It gives you all around more solid defenses while also increasing your heals. Is your team lacking in physical damage in general?(ex. blue build ez has lots of utility, but doesn't put out as much upfront damage as a vayne.) I might build a phantom dancer or an IE(IE only if you have bork instead of hyrda) This is going to give you all the damage you need, but you need to keep in mind that until you get some tanky items, you will pop like a balloon if you get focused, so you need to use the range from your ult to your advantage in teamfights. Never jump in unless the fight is almost over.

tldr if you think aatrox isn't good you probably haven't put in the time to learn what you should and shouldn't do with him.

i Know that, and evne if you can have games where you snowball and go crazy, in balanced games he struggles after 30 min. but like really hard, there are a whole lot of fighter champs that are much better then him in terms of balance (if he is intended to be a fighter)

Messaiga1 votes

Aatrox's problem is a lack of focus for the role they intend him to be, low base stats, and the fact that he needs to purchase so many different stats to be effective. He's also got counter-play issues when he is strong because he'll use his E to waveclear and poke until you can no longer hold out versus him, while he heals for free. Two attack speed steroids is also a different issue. To be honest, I'd say he needs a rework in order to feel strong, fair to play against, and to really emphasize what Aatrox is all about. Unfortunately that type of work would be far off from now.

Fisk1 votes

He's stronger than you might think simply because he scales insanely well off of building attack speed items and lifesteal items. Plus the recent buff to his ult is actually HUGE as it gives him considerable engage power, safety and damage because of the full proc of his passive (hes always been able to but it isn't always consistent that his passive is fully charged like it is now pretty much and consistency is very, very important). He definitely needs a little identity though. They went for kind of a "tank from sustaining" but it turned into "awkward bruiser that does to much damage to be a full tank but not enough to be meaningful".

8bj2yMEanN1 votes

Yea, he has clear weaknesses but doesn't really excel at anything.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

I build Aatrox as a hyper drain tank

BotRK, Hydra, BT, Zephyr/Mercurial, Beserker's, Spirit Visage. He gains so much freaking sustain per auto that he's impossible to kill 1on1. Then I just sit and split push the entire game.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

If they gave him some way to buff his allies when he uses his abilities then they could turn him into a Fighter/Support or something. As others have said, he's weak as a tank or a fighter but what if they made it so like... if he procs his W on an enemy then not only does it heal him, it bolsters his allies resistances for a short time, if he was using it for damage then it would instead reduce the cds of his allies abilities by a small amount and increase their attackspeed. When he uses his E, it leave behind a trail that bolsters movespeed for allies that run over it, and when he activates his ult it would give a temporary shield to all allies in the area that's strength is greater if he hits more enemy champions with it.

He's fairly weak right now, but they have him that way because of his potential to be abusive, if they gave him utility though, then it would mean his solo power is kept in line but he would at least have the potential to be strong through his benefits to others.

BYfbwTiHAh1 votes

I think if they lower the health cost of his w and tweak his ad and armor/mr scaling/lvl he'll be fine. But he's so weak its not even fun to play him.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I really wish his q wasn't canceled by the wind blowing on the other side of the map. Jungle Aatrox is an absolute joke. He can do a lot ni JG but his ability to attack enemy champions effeciently is so low since his slow deteriorates, hard to aim, and his Q as I've said is short and unreliable.

DeathToEcchi1 votes

He's in exactly the same place as every other melee AD carry... If you survive til 45 mins, you win the game.

Meeks0111 votes

You will melt before you heal from your third attack.

GGGangsta551 votes

Before I was permabanned I was arguably the best Aatrox player on NA.

He is pretty bad when you compare him to the opposition but he can still work, try running the setup I mentioned on my other account here.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/BITNKW8F-i-am-one-of-the-best-aatrox-players-in-the-world-and-i-can-safely-say-he-is-still-trash?comment=00000000

Macilento1 votes

{quoted}

Before I was permabanned I was arguably the best Aatrox player on NA.

He is pretty bad when you compare him to the opposition but he can still work, try running the setup I mentioned on my other account here.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/BITNKW8F-i-am-one-of-the-best-aatrox-players-in-the-world-and-i-can-safely-say-he-is-still-trash?comment=00000000

Okay, i will read it carefully.

So you can confirm he need badly some work?

GGGangsta551 votes

{quoted}

Okay, i will read it carefully.

So you can confirm he need badly some work?

yeah definitely, im digging for some old changes i suggested a while back, to his passive mostly

Macilento1 votes

{quoted}

yeah definitely, im digging for some old changes i suggested a while back, to his passive mostly

Well, we can hope Riot read this :3

KING ATTILA1 votes

Aatrox is garbage until he is changed

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