Is there any actual reason for Yasuo's Q to apply onhit effects?

what you deserve·Jan 22, 2017·58 votes·3,889 views

Or is it just so that he can abuse Frozen Mallet? I've literally never seen anyone build a different on-hit item on him. It really doesn't feel okay.

90 Comments

Espy PsycheJan 22, 201729 votes

It applies on-hit effects because it's coded as a melee auto attack. It's exactly the same as Ezreal Gangplank . Thematically and gameplay-wise, it's an auto attack. Also Statikk Shiv is technically an on-hit item.

what you deserveJan 22, 20174 votes

I mean balance-wise, though. Frozen Mallet basically removes his only counterplay.

SnowplosionJan 22, 20173 votes

His Q would probably be pretty underwhelming if it didn't apply on-hit affects. But then again, it cause a lot of problems, so it is kind of a lose - lose situation.

QuephaJan 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

His Q would probably be pretty underwhelming if it didn't apply on-hit affects. But then again, it cause a lot of problems, so it is kind of a lose - lose situation.

What on-hit effects does he use it to apply besides Frozen Mallet? Yasuos build PD over Statikk Shiv nowadays so that's the only on-hit in the build.

SnowplosionJan 22, 20172 votes

That doesn't seem like a lot, but being able to Proc PD and Shiv with his Q is very, very important when he has those items. Yas also occasionally uses Dead Man's, Bork, and Trinity Force, which currently can be proc'd by his Q.

Troll for TrumpJan 23, 20172 votes

In the past, it's been crit items -> sheen items -> mallet

GULAG 4 UJan 22, 201712 votes

Frozen mallet is broken but it doesn't remove yasuo's counterplay at all.

YumaS2AstralJan 22, 20175 votes

Is Frozen Mallet really broken? I only see it being abused by Yasuo and Gnar. Every other potential abuser of Frozen Mallet cannot afford to build it most of time, such as ADCs (they really need other items instead)

GULAG 4 UJan 24, 20171 votes

If people started building frozen mallet on champions such as aatrox and Yi I don't even want to imagine what the fuck will the game even look like.

Here's the thing about mallet. It forces you to fight because you can't get away from a mallet user unless you are a lot more mobile than them (Which is most likely not possible against Yi, aatrox, Yasuo, tryndamere, jax etc.) An item that forces you to fight should not posses good combat stats such as FM.

Troll for TrumpJan 23, 20171 votes

It doesn't remove it, but it increases his stickiness to the point where you basically can't run away.

Removes your agency in whether or not you want to fight him when he engages

Arsenic SulfurJan 23, 20171 votes

But that isn't exclusive to Yasuo. If any other melee or ranged for that matter successfully engages you have to fight back because you can't run away from the perma-slow Mallet inherently provides. If you want Yasuo off of you start by running through the jungle as there are less or even no dashes available in there, depending on how much your jungler is farming.

Troll for TrumpJan 23, 20171 votes

Yes but the problem is yas already has stickiness.

It's like rylais. Some champs legitimately need it, but it's just abused on a few champs. Same with frozen mallet.

GULAG 4 UJan 24, 20171 votes

Most other melees that can build Fm are also pretty sticky.

Troll for TrumpJan 24, 20171 votes

Everyone can build FM, just like everyone could get Rylai's.

Reread:

It's like rylais. Some champs legitimately need it, but it's just abused on a few champs. Same with frozen mallet.

GULAG 4 UJan 24, 20171 votes

Big difference friend. No champions legitimately needs frozen mallet. No one. Maybe gnar but that's it.

Troll for TrumpJan 24, 20171 votes

Gnar does not need it.

No champion legitimately "needs" Rylai's. But the strength of that item (Frozen Mallet/Rylai's) contributes to the viability of that champ.

For the Rylai's case, Rylai's being a strong item made some mages strongs but others overloaded. Riot did what the community wanted, and nerfed Rylai's. This helped to solve the issue of the few overloaded mages, but also dropped the winrates of some other mages that used Rylai's a lot, but weren't broken with it even in it's (Rylai's) prime.

GULAG 4 UJan 24, 20171 votes

there are champions that need rylai's. Such as mordekaiser. Multiple champions are balanced around it's use. None are around FM. It's just an item that should not exist.

Troll for TrumpJan 24, 20171 votes

Morde doesn't have to use Rylai's. Even with Rylai's nerf, and being unfavorable in the meta, his winrate still isn't super subpar. It's around 50, so he's fine without Rylai's. When he first came out, remember how busted he was. Rylai's was part of that reason.

GULAG 4 UJan 24, 20171 votes

That's because Rylai's isn't that bad. The reduced cost helps mordekaiser deal with being behind due to jungle camps. Mordekaiser still builds rylai's consistently.

Troll for TrumpJan 25, 20171 votes

I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's not necessary

GULAG 4 UJan 25, 20171 votes

It still is necessary.

AdriqnoheeJan 22, 20172 votes

And yet it ignores Jax's E.

WinTheWarOnPantsJan 22, 20172 votes

except it can't be dodged or blinded... you know.. the 2 cc abilities in the game that only counter auto attacks. lol

legionnaire99Jan 23, 20171 votes

Ez isn't coded the same but gp Q is

dominusxJan 22, 201711 votes

Frozen mallet and Rylais shouldnt even be in the game.

YumaS2AstralJan 22, 20173 votes

I don't know about Frozen Mallet, but Rylai is very important for many champions Malzahar AurelionSol Cassiopeia Vladimir Azir

Also, without Rylai, Mordekaiser would not exist as a champion

SqkergJan 22, 20172 votes

Azir already doesn't :(

TheOnlyJoeJan 23, 20171 votes

He's in a decent spot right now. I wouldn't call him good but he's definitely not a trash as people make him out to be.

dominusxJan 22, 20171 votes

All of these champs except Vlad were toxic because of it so yeh. Cassio doesnt need Rylais tho.

VeltoxJan 22, 20171 votes

Mordekaiser toxic? I admit he was a lane bully that could rival Renekton before his rework. But he had clear weak points.

dominusxJan 22, 20171 votes

still rylais was aids on him. just because somethign ahs a weakness doesnt mean its not annoying. not broken or anything tho toxic aint the same thing as broken. Teemo is toxic he aint broken tho.. fizz is toxic he aint broken tho akali etc.

13900 EssenceJan 23, 20171 votes

I don't think aurelion sol has ever been outstandingly strong. The only way I could see someone think that is if they 24/7 watch huhi play him.

venomous frostJan 22, 20178 votes

let's be real here. The only reason is that riot has been hammering on "diversity" for the last 2 years. And to achieve champ diversity, they added extra effects and passives on every ability.

Same reason why camille needs a double dash and stun on the same ability. Same reason why his q has on hit effects and a tornado. Same reason why his ult both has armor pen and damage+knockup.

No old champion has all these extra effects on their abilities.

Arya RivenJan 22, 20176 votes

Riven. Lee Sin. Both are S1 releases.

venomous frostJan 22, 20172 votes

riven isn't overloaded, she just barely has CDs lee is the exception.

Arya RivenJan 22, 20174 votes

Riven's Q 2 dashes+1 leap+knockup+damage.

SerberJan 22, 20173 votes

[deleted]

Arya RivenJan 22, 20172 votes

We are talking on one ability. That is Riven's only ability with 3 features.

Passive is one thing, AA damage.

Q is 3 dashes albeit all very short range, last can skil walls and knock up.

W is a stun.

E is a shield dash, all shields in the game have more than one usage and/or can be put on allies. Every shield in the game scales on the champion's primary stat *except Yasuo and Morde

R Activate to increase AD, activate again for AoE damage.

However. I could list all of any champions features and call them bloated.

Garen has:

True damage %HP damage Point and click silence AoE shred Free HP regen AoE damage Bonus Armor and Magic Resist Active mitigation that even effects true damage A minigame that lets him do bonus damage And a point and click nuke execute ability that cannot be dodged

Naming a champions features is not an argument. Nor is Riven any more bloated than Garen. The ability setup she does have however make her a viable champion, while Garens make him a 'champion for new players'. And her numbers on either her Q or passive are currently overtuned.

Sozan5Jan 22, 20173 votes

Every shield in the game scales on the champion's primary stat *except Yasuo and Morde

LeeSin Urgot Shen R Blitzcrank JarvanIV Evelynn Udyr

And I guess Skarner as it has max health scaling instead of base value.

Guy Fox TeemoJan 22, 20176 votes

Yes because it also applies:

Crits, Life steal, Bonus damage from Riftherald, Ardent, etc. It applys on hits like Static, Frozen Mallet, Blade of the Ruined king, etc.

Its literally just an Auto attack skill shot.

Stupid argument, I get you hate Yasuo but making it not apply on hit affects would make it essentially the shittiest ability in the game past the 4min mark.

YumaS2AstralJan 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Guy Fox Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hnOc0vvp,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-01-22T19:44:00.247+0000)

Yes because it also applies:

Crits, Life steal, Bonus damage from Riftherald, Ardent, etc. It applys on hits like Static, Frozen Mallet, Blade of the Ruined king, etc.

Its literally just an Auto attack skill shot.

Stupid argument, I get you hate Yasuo but making it not apply on hit affects would make it essentially the shittiest ability in the game past the 4min mark.

It would have to become a spell (for the purposes of spellvamp, rylai, etc) and would have to be buffed heavily to compensate for this. Imagine it having a much higher base damage and scaling.

360D3GR3SSJan 23, 20173 votes

So you have never seen trinity force or BOTRK on yasuo? how new are you?

The DeckownerJan 22, 20172 votes

because spaghetti code.

legionnaire99Jan 22, 20178 votes

Do you know what spaghetti code is or are you saying it because you hear other stuff is?

It Hertz When IPJan 22, 20174 votes

It's BUZZWORD SUNDAY!

The DeckownerJan 22, 20171 votes

They want to code it so it applys on attack effect, so they coded it as an auto attack, but that also applys on-hit effect, which rito think is fine so they left it as how it is. It is similar to how Riven q dash to the direction she face instead of direction of cursor. Unintended but Rito realize it looks cool and.make the champion look special and mechanically intense so they left it as how it is.

legionnaire99Jan 23, 20171 votes

... so tell me what the difference between on attack effects and on hit effects.

what you deserveJan 23, 20171 votes

that's not what spaghetti code is

spaghetti code is why teemo keeps buffing himself and why shaco can't proc thunderlord's it's also why lee sin ult roots you

legionnaire99Jan 23, 20171 votes

Wait what buff dose teemo get?

what you deserveJan 23, 20171 votes

for a while teemo was able to use his passive in combat, and a different time he could proc thunderlord's/deathfire with his e