It's so frustrating to play against [zombie-nunu-tears] The only counterplay to it is to stay out of range, which is bad design. What would it look like if morgana or lux or brand or xerath or Galio had a targeted root/cc for example?
Dr Dog4 votesits a root for .75, ryze is already pretty meh and thats nothing compared to fiddles point and click 2 sec fear, lulus 2.5 poly or lissandra annoying ass ult
Rester1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hnAeJJIA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-21T20:00:29.508+0000)
its a root for .75, ryze is already pretty meh and thats nothing compared to fiddles point and click 2 sec fear, lulus 2.5 poly or lissandra annoying ass ult
You forgot it's a 1.5s root if Ryze uses his Spell Flux (E) first, then his Rune Prison (W) and both are direct targeted spells.
Dr Dog1 votesok? and to do that hes sacrificing a pretty hefty chunk of his dmg combo, theres a tradeoff unlike that champions i listed above that can just use theirs without thought
Snowbrand1 votesYea, these champions point and click cc is also bs lol. I wouldn't mind them to get reworked to skillshots too*[zombie-nunu-hearts]* . If they reworked ryze W, they could put ore power elswhere, closing the gap between pros and soloq at least a bit more.
EDIT: His W just feels like it hinders interaction in lane or elsewhere.
Zéychin1 votesAlright. Sure. Let's add 500 range to all of Ryze's abilities and make his W a skillshot, if we're going to compare him directly to artillery mages like Xerath and Lux. /sarcasm
Ryze gets a point and click on his abilities because he has much lower engagement range than the other champions you mentioned because he is intended to build like a battlemage -- with some health and resistance to synergize with his shield and to avoid getting blown up when he attempts to do anything in the game.
If they left his range/cooldown/damage the same and made it a skillshot, Ryze would be below F tier. You could just stand near your minion wave to avoid getting CCed or getting hit by Q and just walk away from his E range. If he uses his combo to blow up the minion wave and bounce Flux on you, you just walk away from him and he still doesn't get his W off.
I know that Ryze hasn't always been a very healthy champion, but he's balanced right now, if not underpowered. He probably needs to be reworked again, because in his current state, slight changes either make him or break him, but just making his W a skillshot would completely gut him without additional changes.
Snowbrand1 votesAlright. Sure. Let's add 500 range to all of Ryze's abilities and make his W a skillshot, if we're going to compare him directly to artillery mages like Xerath and Lux. /sarcasm
Ryze gets a point and click on his abilities because he has much lower engagement range than the other champions you mentioned because he is intended to build like a battlemage -- with some health and resistance to synergize with his shield and to avoid getting blown up when he attempts to do anything in the game.
If they left his range/cooldown/damage the same and made it a skillshot, Ryze would be below F tier. You could just stand near your minion wave to avoid getting CCed or getting hit by Q and just walk away from his E range. If he uses his combo to blow up the minion wave and bounce Flux on you, you just walk away from him and he still doesn't get his W off.
I know that Ryze hasn't always been a very healthy champion, but he's balanced right now, if not underpowered. He probably needs to be reworked again, because in his current state, slight changes either make him or break him, but just making his W a skillshot would completely gut him without additional changes.
Yea, that's why I mentioned another battle mage like galio or someone like asol for example. I can't think of any battle mage that have a point and click cc actually.
I think you misunderstood what I meant with Jhins W. I only ment to compare it as a skillshot and hit box like Ryze, not change the range of it.
Yes, changing his W would make it possible to buff Ryze instead.
Zéychin1 votesYea, that's why I mentioned another battle mage like galio or someone like asol for example. I can't think of any battle mage that have a point and click cc actually.
I think you misunderstood what I meant with Jhins W. I only ment to compare it as a skillshot and hit box like Ryze, not change the range of it.
Yes, changing his W would make it possible to buff Ryze instead.
You had mentioned Lux and Morgana, who both have 500 -575 range over Ryze on their snares, which why I said that. Ryze has to get far closer than these other champions to do his job, which puts him at risk. If he goes in for a trade and misses his W, there's a pretty high likelihood that none of his Qs are going to hit either and now his only safety is gone. His risk is being that close. His reward is sustained damage at lower ranges. His kit depends on his W not being a skillshot.
His kit generally needs a rework. If you change his W to a skillshot, the rest of his kit will have to be compensated which would likely just break him again in the hands of a good player. and this plays to your incorrect comment about closing the gap between pro play and average players. Pros are far more likely to use skillshots effectively. It would actually widen the gap for Ryze to have his W as a skillshot to be able to do his job. It would also make some of the worst matchups for Ryze unplayable.
and on the Galio or Aurelion Sol topic, they have CC that is actually fairly difficult to miss at their effective ranges. Even minimum-range Aurelion Sol Q is pretty big and Galio has an AOE taunt with the ability to Flash during the Taunt. His dash is also fairly easy to hit. Either way, these champions don't really work anywhere near the way Ryze works. He's meant to be the spell-slinger, moving in and out of combat with the movement speed, not the wander around and do damage like Aurelion Sol or heavy engage type like Galio.
tl;dr: Ryze has a defined role in the game that would not work if this were changed and his other abilities buffed to compensate. Ryze still needs a rework, but this ain't it, Chief.
Snowbrand1 votesYou had mentioned Lux and Morgana, who both have 500 -575 range over Ryze on their snares, which why I said that. Ryze has to get far closer than these other champions to do his job, which puts him at risk. If he goes in for a trade and misses his W, there's a pretty high likelihood that none of his Qs are going to hit either and now his only safety is gone. His risk is being that close. His reward is sustained damage at lower ranges. His kit depends on his W not being a skillshot.
His kit generally needs a rework. If you change his W to a skillshot, the rest of his kit will have to be compensated which would likely just break him again in the hands of a good player. and this plays to your incorrect comment about closing the gap between pro play and average players. Pros are far more likely to use skillshots effectively. It would actually widen the gap for Ryze to have his W as a skillshot to be able to do his job. It would also make some of the worst matchups for Ryze unplayable.
and on the Galio or Aurelion Sol topic, they have CC that is actually fairly difficult to miss at their effective ranges. Even minimum-range Aurelion Sol Q is pretty big and Galio has an AOE taunt with the ability to Flash during the Taunt. His dash is also fairly easy to hit. Either way, these champions don't really work anywhere near the way Ryze works. He's meant to be the spell-slinger, moving in and out of combat with the movement speed, not the wander around and do damage like Aurelion Sol or heavy engage type like Galio.
tl;dr: Ryze has a defined role in the game that would not work if this were changed and his other abilities buffed to compensate. Ryze still needs a rework, but this ain't it, Chief.
Well, in organized play his W is too reliable to set up for ganks for example, which is not as utilised in soloq. Making it a skillshot for example would make it less reliable and therefore not as much used to set up fro ganks in organised play and therefore would close the gap. That's what I ment. Sure, you have some points, but his W is still too safe and reliable to be fun to play against.