Split the game? No more complaints EVER???

Snowbrand··4 votes·2,192 views

EDIT: Sry for a bit of a rant in the beginning, but trying to explain some frustration when people blame Riot for going downhill when in fact most of their changes at least in theory but often in practis is good and progressive. I don't have a solution between players that wants to keep the game as it was and players that want the game to move forward and get more blanced and get more deapth and improve. There isn't a simple solution, but maybe there is better ideas how to do it then what I have atm and that's why I started this post.

It's sort of a serious question I have and I wonder if Riot should actually split the game, one the keeps the old game and another game that progress forward. That way people that want to keep the old run systemitem 3400 or pre-reworked akali Akali or something else, would be satisfied and people that mostly likes the direction that Riot wants to go in can keep playing that game.

I know it is kinda impossible, but in theory, that is a pretty good idea because everyone would be happy right? At least for me it's getting a bit annoying to have to worry about what a majority of mains or players or whatever it is will be loud enough to force Riot to change things to not lose players, but not necesserily because it's the best game design solution for example.

There is always gonna be complaints about everything, especially about things that matter to people, but a lot of complaints about league is mostly nostalgia because people don't like change or wants it a certain way that benefits them and therefore make them happy and so on. That's fine I guess, but that's why I sometimes wished there was 2 games instead of one, so people that want the nostalgic old days of league can play it so that Riot can keep evolving this game to the best of it potential instead of preventing it from getting better.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Let me explain some changes that is good from a game design perspectiv but that some people don't like for different reasons (of course there is sometimes justified complaints, but I don't see much of it here or on reddit)

Reworks

There will always be complaints about reworks from mains that feel like their champion was reworked into a totally new champion. It's like losing a loved pet or something, I get it (and therefore there should be another game for people that want to keep league the way it was as I'm saying even if not possible). Some champions:

AkaliAkali : Before the rework I liked her because she was simple with her point and click and my macro is better then my micro. She was fun and easy to play and I understand why people like that. But then she got reworked. I liked her look and sort of her kit, but it was harder to use for me with only skillshots. But would I want her reverted? No, because I don't like facing champions with point and click skills, because it feels bad to lose against something that the only way to outplay it is to stay out of range.

So even if I benefited from it because Im a bad player, I still don't like it in the game. Riot knows this and that's why she got reworked. She might need a smaller rework on her shroud and so on, but objectivly her rework was good. That's why warwack was such a good rework (one of a few reworks no one complains about), because his ultimate became a skillshot for example. Before his ult was just super frustrating to play against and it can still be, but now I know it's because I had bad positioning or just played bad and why I still hate malzahar or skarner ult, because there is no way to outplay a bad player.

AatroxxAatrox : He had few mains, but his mains seems to have disliked the rework.overall. He had a unique playstyle, so it's understandable. One argument it was bad was that he already was started to be played in competitive games. That's just a bad argument, because even if he was "meta" he had still a bad design. One reason was that he relied a lot on point and click attacks, which is kinda hard to outplay (one day I hope they rework how auto-attacks works but whatever). So objectively his rework as a caster was sucessful and moving him from stat-checky to be able to outplayitem 3691 or use skillshots made him a better champion overall. You might not like his look that much or his abilities or something else. But with the rework the game became better objectively.

I could pick more reworks that shows Riot is going in the right direction and usually changes things in a better direction (even though players don't always like it), but I would just say the same things over and over again. This is one example why, if these players got what they wanted (a revert usually), it might keep them in the game (good for Riot of course) but it wouldn't move the game forward and make it better objectively.

LeblancLeblanc and RengarRengar are examples of reverts partly because of mains outcry I believe. Maybe I'm wrong and it's only because of gameplay, but I doubt it. LeBlancs rework wasn't the best, but I still think it's preferable to the old one or new new one. Instead of just reverting it back to the reason she got reworked, they should've kept her or done a full VGU. Riot wanted to make it a better game by making her delayed and with more time to outplay her which was a good thing, but I feel like because of her mains (and a not perfect kit still, I guess), she got reverted more because of her players then for what's good for the game (and that's why it should be another game so older leBlanc mains can enjoy it too).

Rune reforgeditem 2010 : Is another example that some people don't like. Arguments like it was less damage because of less damage runes and keystones (which is barely true, but whatever just nerf damage overall then) or more options. You can do the same stuff in the new system, but overall its better even if it have flaws.

Champions got viable for example with the new rune tree like Skarner, Olaf or Lissandra and you got more options. You can change runes depending on who you play and it's a simple, but flexible system. It's not perfect, but nothing ever will. But if people still want the old system there should be an older version of league so everyone could enjoy it.

I could pick other stuff like mages and bruisers in botlane and Crit items or something else. My point is that Riot usually do pretty good decisions, but some people don't like it. Sometimes justified, but often not. Therefore, because everyone wants to enjoy league, there should be a way to have an older version of league and a progressive version. Sadly that's probably not possible.

23 Comments

Bobloser35552 votes

Oh I would definetly play the game that stays the same, just balance it once and leave it as it is.

KirbyCake2 votes

Yes make a season 4 server already. We have starcraft and starcraft II. We have CS and CS GO.

Salvage the game already.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Yes make a season 4 server already. We have starcraft and starcraft II. We have CS and CS GO.

Salvage the game already.

And then you will complain about the same things that you complained before at the time. Love the blind nostalgia glasses people use

Bobloser35551 votes

no because you can balance the game perfectly if it stays the same

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

no because you can balance the game perfectly if it stays the same

Yea you could and I guess some people would like to have it that way. I wouldn't like that though.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

no because you can balance the game perfectly if it stays the same

If you are balancing the game then it's not staying the same also, no matter what you do the game is never going to be perfectly balanced. There will always be a group of champions who are better than the rest, a strategy that is better and a general playstyle that is better than the rest. Unless you make everything be literally a carbon copy of each other in which case it's actually possible to have the game be perfectly balanced

Bobloser35551 votes

well champions dont have to be equally good in every situation, just on average be equal.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

well champions dont have to be equally good in every situation, just on average be equal.

"on average" well unless you make every single strategy be equally viable that is never going to happen. Unless you can go early game or late game, scaling vs non scaling, splitpushing vs teamfighting, full on bruiser team vs full on squishy team and so on and on. All that while still have the same chance of winning when going against the opposite strategy then champions will never be "equal" on average. As long as there is a dominant strategy or way of playing the game then those champions will always be the better ones and the others will just be struggling to be relevant or make as much impact as the "meta" ones.

What you are asking is something that literally no game in history has ever done, every game there is the "this is the best character/class/whatever" while having the worst and the just middle of the pack. Every competitive game has tier lists

Bobloser35551 votes

Dude it is easy to balance a game! only reason Riot can't is because they frickin change it all the time.

PlantagenNega1 votes

It would actually be like a "rescue" button for this game

Juice1 votes

How many of these splits would you need?

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

How many of these splits would you need?

Yea it's probably not countable? Don't take it literal, it's just a theoretical thought experiment :) How do you keep mains and players happy, while keeping the game progressive? I don't have an answer, but maybe someone else have [slayer-jinx-catface]

Juice2 votes

Just make a S4 server (before the game turned to shit)

Snowbrand2 votes

{quoted}

Just make a S4 server (before the game turned to shit)

Yea if it was possible, that would be nice^^

Juice2 votes

Check out the project called League of Memories

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

Check out the project called League of Memories

Cool! Interesting indeed

dnsup1 votes

{quoted}

Yea it's probably not countable?

It must be! The number of changes that have ever been made to the game is finite (and therefore countable).

Don't take it literal, it's just a theoretical thought experiment :)

But that's why I took it literal!

How do you keep mains and players happy, while keeping the game progressive?

Not sure what you mean by progressive here, but I think Riot does ask this sometimes. But I'm not sure those things affect Riot's bottom line directly enough for them to decide whether trying to answer it is worth really pouring resources into it.

I don't have an answer, but maybe someone else have [slayer-jinx-catface]

I'm sure there are a lot of players with opinions about it, but I don't know if I'd call them answers--not answers in the sense of solutions...

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

It must be! The number of changes that have ever been made to the game is finite (and therefore countable).

Yea, again don't take it literal ;)

But that's why I took it literal!

Indeed

Not sure what you mean by progressive here, but I think Riot does ask this sometimes. But I'm not sure those things affect Riot's bottom line directly enough for them to decide whether trying to answer it is worth really pouring resources into it.

I mean by make it better, like rework champions from stat-checky to skillshots or to take more skill like akali or Irelia or Aatrox or any other rework really.

I'm sure there are a lot of players with opinions about it, but I don't know if I'd call them answers--not answers in the sense of solutions...

Yea it's a pretty big question lol

dnsup1 votes

o ok

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

I believe that Riot doesn't keep pre-reworked characters

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

I believe that Riot doesn't keep pre-reworked characters

Yea, dont take it literal [vlad-salute]

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