Karma Changes are Terrible

Frosted Tips·Oct 24, 2018·5 votes·1,407 views

This is actually a downgrade from current Karma. She feels even less like her traditional self, excluding reliance on team coordination going up.

The ally W will now force her to be balanced for support. (Obviously the most common and blatant complaint)
The ally W will force her to be balanced around 3-5 champions if we are lucky. The CDR for an ally and mana for an ally is just too niche to be healthy as a common pick.
Mantra Shield damage completely removed. Keep the damage or give us the nuke back, but don't just make the shield more boring. I would rather you take the MS away and keep damage.
This is not what any wants.
(IMPORTANT) STILL NOT BRINGING THE FANS BACK.

25 Comments

HP CrookshanksOct 24, 20185 votes

I think the changes are terrible too. Karma is primarily a mage not a support. I like playing her as a battle mage but I think she should keep the MS on her shield because it's iconic to her.

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20182 votes

See I think damage from Mantra Shield with more iconic and I would rather them focus on that because I think MS plus a shield is too good in a snowball situation.

Common SatyrOct 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

See I think damage from Mantra Shield with more iconic and I would rather them focus on that because I think MS plus a shield is too good in a snowball situation.

what shield damage? waht are you talking about? RE jsut gives more shield and aoe...

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20181 votes

Original Karma and for awhile post rework Karma did AoE damage when she casted RE

VoidStaresBackOct 24, 20183 votes

Mantra shield damage has been removed entirely for a long time, that's not new to the rework.

Also, this whole "but it was like this four years ago" or whenever Karma had her first rework really irks me. The majority of Karma players play her support. The majority of Karma mains play her support. There are probably a higher percentage of Karma mains vs average players in mid lane, but there are still more mains who play her support. Even if you liked Karma as a midlaner back before her first rework, you have to accept that she's a support now and Riot is going to balance her accordingly. Also, re: fans: Really? If the only reason you like Karma or think she's Karma is some damn fans that's entirely your problem. Karma is not the first champion to change her visuals and she sure as hell won't be the last, doesn't mean she's not Karma or that she needs to have her fans back. Also, I'm not entirely sure she isn't getting her fans, if there were pictures I missed them.

"This is not what anyone wants" no. This is not what you want, this is not what the people who have been asking for Karma to be reverted for years wants, but don't presume to speak for everyone or even a majority of Karma players.

The ally W forcing her to be balanced around specific champions is a valid concern and was also the first thing I thought of when I saw it. While it may encourage more bot lane diversity, it'll make her incredibly strong with certain mages who can fully utilize the effect and force her to be balanced around them.

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20182 votes

Mantra Shield does damage. That is a fact not much but does damage.

She is played support mainly now because right forces her there with constant changes that harm mid karma more than support karma. Also they have said it is very unlikely she would get her fans back and that no artists were going to take time to get them back. They would have said something if she was. That was the biggest complaint visually when she originally got reworked almost over 5 and a half years ago.

The average Karma player that wanted changes wanted

Allied W
Her to be Viable as mid and support.
Shield Bomb

What they give the players

Yes, but causes #2
Opposite
Opposite - I understand this one may not be healthy, but no need to take the current tiny bit of damage away.

Doge2020Oct 24, 20182 votes

I thought her w is the ability that forms a tether on an enemy champ. Or is she getting another rework?

I just don’t get what this post is talking about.

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20181 votes

They are adding an ally cast along with what she currently has which is the tether.

Doge2020Oct 24, 20181 votes

Where do y’all find this stuff? I looked on some places but I don’t see this lol. I guess it is because this stuff shows up first on the PBE before any Dev posts or Surrender@20 posts talk about it.

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20181 votes

It is the most recent dev post actually.

Doge2020Oct 24, 20181 votes

I haven’t thought to look at the dev post, I thought y’all were talking about something from yesterday

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20181 votes

Nope it is from today and it is one of the worst change lists I have ever seen for an individual champion.

Darknessy17Oct 25, 20182 votes

I dislike the changes as well. Personally I wanted her to get the fans back, the heal on Q and the shield bomb. Now they are just giving her an improved Soraka pre rework E and still no effin fans. Also her Q getting blocked by Minions still remains, so yeah I am very disappointed. item 3070

Tahminatrix Oct 24, 20181 votes

The movement speed on karmas shield is probably the best thing she has tho…

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20183 votes

That may be your opinion, but it has also led to her being nerfed consistently. But no one wants to admit that is a part of her problem.

WinterkillOct 24, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=helJXRT0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-24T19:34:33.651+0000)

The movement speed on karmas shield is probably the best thing she has tho…

Yeah. Get rid of the mass AoE shields that already exist on an item active.

RavenhaleOct 24, 20181 votes

Eh, Karma's issue is that she is an enchanter that doesn't do anything too unique so she only gets serious play when enchanters are strong (either due to runes/items or a shift in which enchanter boosted marksmen are most viable) and when her numbers are better than other enchanters (most of which have better disengage). You can technically play Orianna as an enchanter if you are really in desperate need for a challenge, so why pick Karma? I don't see how a mana/CDR function is going to make her an attractive pick unless running an AD Caster like Lucian/Fortune or duo mage bot lane.

WinterkillOct 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Eh, Karma's issue is that she is an enchanter that doesn't do anything too unique so she only gets serious play when enchanters are strong (either due to runes/items or a shift in which enchanter boosted marksmen are most viable) and when her numbers are better than other enchanters (most of which have better disengage). You can technically play Orianna as an enchanter if you are really in desperate need for a challenge, so why pick Karma? I don't see how a mana/CDR function is going to make her an attractive pick unless running an AD Caster like Lucian/Fortune or duo mage bot lane.

She wasn't an Enchanter solely before that though. She was a battlemage with interactive abilities on allies. So by today standards she should be a battlemage/enchanter. That is not the case. Before the relaunch she was played more then than now in the mage role. The current kit is proof that it just isn't working and the fact that they still haven't addressed the core issues with her kit and gameplay identity, will mean this champion never gets anything done.

RavenhaleOct 24, 20181 votes

Hence my Orianna comment. There was never a reason to thrust the Enchanter role on Karma when others do it more effectively because they were created with that design in mind. Zilean is probably a good example of a champion that can support in a unique way, and that should have been the direction of Karma's first rework. If you want her to support/inspire/teamwork, then let it not be the same as everyone else.

As for battlemages... I can't think of any successful ones. Don't really know if that's a direction Riot dares returning her.

WinterkillOct 24, 20181 votes

Yep.

Done25Oct 24, 20181 votes

I love the changes tbh.

Frosted TipsOct 24, 20181 votes

Do you not see all of the issues that many Karma players seem Or even many players see that played champions designed originally for multiple positions then slowly reduced to a single role?

Done25Oct 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Do you not see all of the issues that many Karma players seem Or even many players see that played champions designed originally for multiple positions then slowly reduced to a single role?

Let's be honest, current W is garbage. New W at least gives her something to do with it when it's too dangerous for her to get close to a fight. Trying to Tether a Zed with his ult up is a good way to very quickly die. I think E mantra will be stronger when it's on just her+1 other?

Frosted TipsOct 25, 20181 votes

The current W is garbage. My problem with the New W they suggest is that to make it feel impactful and to make it healthy they will force her to be a support. The W is supposed to be a tether also not just an instant ability. I would like to see her tether with an ally and for both of them to get increase in stats of some sort over the duration of the tether.