I can't wait until Lee Sin gets the Sona treatment!

DrCyanide·Dec 16, 2014·115 votes·6,103 views

Rework Lee Sin in such a way that most of his mains hate him, then proceed to nerf repeatedly.

What's good for the mute should be good for the blind, am I right?

120 Comments

Pika310Dec 16, 201447 votes

I used to main Sona. Then she took a "rework" to the knee.

SookoDec 17, 201426 votes

I used to main Sona like you. Then she took a "rework" to the knee.

This would have made your post perfect, but you still deserve a +1 sir.

summoner 31

Rew711Dec 17, 20148 votes

I can't wait for Fizz to get the Kassadin treatment.

SaiannaDec 16, 201429 votes

Better eve/urgot treatment. Then he'll dissapear from games for few years :D

chumblerDec 17, 201415 votes

Revert Cassiopeia piece of shit garbage rework and give Lee Sin to stashu. Make that idiot's incompetence actually fix the game for once.

Pika310Dec 17, 20146 votes

While we're at it, Riot needs to fire Fearless and have Colt Hallam and Steve Feak placed in charge of a real Sona rework. In the meantime, revert her back to before the Fearless nerfs until Ezreal and Guinsoo finish the job.

XonraDec 17, 201413 votes

looks at his "Sona Main" badge in the trash and sighs"

Too soon man..too soon. I miss the real Sona.

ObericDec 17, 20146 votes

{quoted}

looks at his "Sona Main" badge in the trash and sighs"

Too soon man..too soon. I miss the real Sona.

I just want old Karma back. :/

juice loosenerDec 17, 201413 votes

Meh .. knowing riot they're more than likely going to buff lee sin. xD

MindspeakerDec 17, 201412 votes

Actually i hope Lee sin gets the equivalent of the Sona and Irelia Nerfs combined

Demonsolder21Dec 17, 20144 votes

Didnt you hear riot has a thing for lee. Doubt they will nerf him.

MindspeakerDec 18, 20144 votes

{quoted}

Didnt you hear riot has a thing for lee. Doubt they will nerf him.

hmmm well its obvious they don't like the women ( sona , riven , akali .....jinx...as in left out a major part of her anatomy) so you may be right .

Kowe The EwokDec 16, 201410 votes

The difference between Lee and Sona: Lee actually gets picked.

DrCyanideDec 16, 201425 votes

Sona use to, then she got reworked.

Squeaky DreemurrDec 17, 201410 votes

What's good for the mute should be good for the blind, am I right?

Hahahhahahhahahahahahahhahhahahaha

FiorinolDec 17, 20149 votes

I'm sick of Lee Sin's free ward hopping. I don't understand why a champion that is already so mobile gets to have an extra get out of fail free card. And that's on top of him doing quite a bit of damage with his ultimate.

AuryielDec 17, 20149 votes

I had the displeasure of rolling Sona on ARAM yesterday. 80 mana for a 30 heal and 35 shield

What. The. Actual. Fuck???!!!

Not to mention how counterproductive a shield and a heal that scales off missing health all baked in 1 ability is. I mean it would be fine if it was a big, clutch ability, but Sona is meant to spam the shit ouf of everything. That thing is so dumb XD

DiostukosDec 17, 20148 votes

{quoted}

I had the displeasure of rolling Sona on ARAM yesterday. 80 mana for a 30 heal and 35 shield

What. The. Actual. Fuck???!!!

Not to mention how counterproductive a shield and a heal that scales off missing health all baked in 1 ability is. I mean it would be fine if it was a big, clutch ability, but Sona is meant to spam the shit ouf of everything. That thing is so dumb XD

The next patch i hear is reducing healing by 50% instead of 20% on aram, so she'll be healing a whopping 15 health; so like one minion auto.

DrCyanideDec 17, 20149 votes

And here is the problem. Sona has been reworked and nerfed in such a way that her most viable build is possibly to get a Lich Bane and go full APC. Forget being a support on ARAM, Sona needs to be a full blown killing machine or she's useless.

But then Sona's doing damage when she should be a support, and Riot nerfs her again.

Rinky DinkyDec 18, 20149 votes

I hate maining a champion. I hate loving a champions concept and playstyle. Why? Shit like this happens.

Stuff like this is why people jump from OP to OP Flavors of the month. Get attatched to a champion, and then cry when they get gutted for no reason at all. I honestly was thinking Riot was going in the right direction these past few patches, buffing weaker champs, and even saying that they have plans to tweak Lee Sin.

Then, they do this. Take a great champion, a staple supp, and destroy her relentlessly.

The rework, while most hate it, because it was infact a nerf, I still liked Sona, and actually felt like I was having more success with her. Then, the nerfs started happening. Thats a total of 18 nerfs since the rework. She got one small bugfix where her q range was buffed back to 700, from 650.

Sona is squishy, very easy to punish, and is very much outclassed by Nami. Sona needs buffs. Huge buffs.

She needs her old cooldowns. All of her spells are weaker than pre-rework now, yet they have a LONGER cooldown. What.

honestly, the rework is now a failure. Riot themselves obviously don't like it, as they keep nerfing her over and over.

At least Karma had a place when she got reworked. As did Trundle. Sona is actually becoming a useless champion.

I main her, I love her, but she is getting weaker and weaker. She is going to be uselss after this patch. Her hard poke combo is all she has, I find it to be the main reason to play her right now. You can burst hard, with no AP. Now, with 10% of that gone, plus last patches nerf, Nami can do more damage.

That means there is 0 reason to pick Sona. None. None at all. So this is my farewell to Sona. I loved you, you made me appreciate the support role. Sadly, times have changed, Riot has forsaken you, and you just cant be played anymore without me feeling like I am letting my team down. I honestly believe that Urgot and Gangplank will have a higher reason to be played than Sona after this, as They actually have a niche. Sona will not.

Rest in Peace, may Riot change their ways, and then maybe we can play a symphony of justice once more.

1 like = 1 prayer

MAZZ1M0Dec 18, 20144 votes

Amen.

XonraDec 18, 20145 votes

{quoted}

"and you just cant be played anymore without me feeling like I am letting my team down."

In the past few weeks I have played her a few times...and gotten yelled at by my team and even had one adc go afk because even they don't want me to play Sona because they feel she is weak. When I play her I feel like I'm putting my team and my lane at a disadvantage and half the time they get mad at me for doing it before the game even starts.

I played her 99.9 time out of 100 in season 3...then the Rework happened and I died a little inside.

GlacialFoxDec 18, 20147 votes

And here is wher ei don't get what Rio is doing...

A Mid can play as Support and nothing happends (remember Annie, Veigar supp?) even they do videos about that (Brand Support), but a Support CAN'T play as a MId-Mage because they are OP. So mages can play 2 roles without a problem but supports don't.

IMO Sona's kit is ok but numbers are really bad, Karma can outpoke her, Nami can heal more with less mana, Soraka heals a f... lot more. Sona is a aggressive supp, if she cant go agro (low def and HP) why give her that kit?

yacotaDec 16, 20146 votes

wat are you talking about? sonas rework was amazing. it gave her a higher skillcurve while balancing her out and overall making her a better champion, and before you tell me im wrong i mained sona all during her hayday in season 2. it was a nerf and it wasnt a buff. it gave her better mechanics so she wouldnt be one of those champions that became completly unplayable due to a new champion or watever. lee doesnt need any sort of rework. hes exactly where he should be maybe some minor value changes thats about it. lee is fairly easy to pick up, but takes a lot of time to master. he honestly has one of the best skillcurves in the game

theragingnerdDec 16, 201429 votes

{quoted}

wat are you talking about? sonas rework was amazing. it gave her a higher skillcurve while balancing her out and overall making her a better champion, and before you tell me im wrong i mained sona all during her hayday in season 2. it was a nerf and it wasnt a buff. it gave her better mechanics so she wouldnt be one of those champions that became completly unplayable due to a new champion or watever. lee doesnt need any sort of rework. hes exactly where he should be maybe some minor value changes thats about it. lee is fairly easy to pick up, but takes a lot of time to master. he honestly has one of the best skillcurves in the game

lies

supes the lostDec 17, 20144 votes

I'm actually curious, which part do you consider lies, the lee sin part, or the sona part?

Emmy Cha0sDec 17, 201414 votes

All of it is. There wasn't a single sentence of truth in his entire post.

theragingnerdDec 17, 20145 votes

you do the rest of the work i'm taking a nap

theragingnerdDec 17, 201412 votes

what emmy said

OblongOtterDec 17, 201413 votes

stands behind Emmy and nods affirmatively with arms crossed

A Slime AppearsDec 18, 20146 votes

Lee Sin can't get the Sona treatment. Sona isn't the best support. I fear seeing Braum/Thresh support no matter what support I am. I just look at Sona as a super easy kill early on.

ArveanorDec 17, 20143 votes

So, sona's "rework" gave her the exact same skills as she had before, except with indicators, and smaller ranges, but at least your allies can understand what they are getting from you better now.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am baffled as to how anyone could dislike the changes? Like she plays the same as she always has 0.o

Also, yes, rework lee sin into something with no mobility and then start nerfing him, that'd be nice.

XonraDec 17, 201414 votes

{quoted}

So, sona's "rework" gave her the exact same skills as she had before, except with indicators, and smaller ranges, but at least your allies can understand what they are getting from you better now.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am baffled as to how anyone could dislike the changes? Like she plays the same as she always has 0.o

Also, yes, rework lee sin into something with no mobility and then start nerfing him, that'd be nice.

Her scaling is worse, her healing is worse, her range is WAY worse, her cooldowns are higher.

It's bad. I don't care if you put a sign over her head saying "this ability does X" if it is bad it is bad. It doesn't matter how clear it is if it is worse than it was.

Origami KaijuDec 18, 20144 votes

To be honest, from an aesthetic perspective I think the aura ranges and the shield on w are really pretty.

But everything you said is true. The values, cd's, costs ect were nerfed with the rework, and only continue to be nerfed with each patch.

Pika310Dec 17, 201411 votes

Except that your allies still don't understand what they're getting. Yes she does the same stuff as before and yes it's with lower range. It's also with lower numbers. They made 15 nerfs to her in the "rework" just to fail at giving her more clarity.

ArveanorDec 17, 20141 votes

So the problem isn't "her playstyle really sucks" it's, "they unnecessarily nerfed her numbers during her otherwise un-obstructive changes" ?

DrCyanideDec 17, 201416 votes

They also drastically increased her cooldowns (7 seconds on everything to 8-10-12 seconds) and took away her persistent movement speed boost. The move speed range dropped from 1000 to 350, topping off an allies health takes more casts of W, so you need that close range shield. All of this makes you more vulnerable to AoE attacks or all in aggression, but they start you with less health and only 3 more armor than pre-rework (max level you have 96 more HP).

I'd say Sona's play style that got hit more than anything, without really giving players a way to adapt to those differences.

KalytronDec 17, 20146 votes

Assuming you can find the mana to cast all those heals before the mid game. People don't realize how expensive that heal is and how little it really does.

ModCaptainMårvelousDec 17, 20142 votes

And then you realize the rework boosted Sona's win rate in pro games exponentially. '_'

DrCyanideDec 17, 20148 votes

0% win rate at worlds, wasn't it? Or were there other games you were thinking about?

ModCaptainMårvelousDec 17, 20143 votes

Yeah I mean we can spout world win-rates if you'd like but I'd rather use stats worth using.

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-winrate&range=monthly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked

Sona, as of this month, had the third highest win rate in ranked games in every queue. She was second only to Janna (Goddess of Supports) and Warwick (Who had devourer pre-nerf).

You can argue "Oh but sona is worse now!" but that claim doesn't hold true. She is stronger, she is picked more and she needs these nerfs because people who know how to play her make her work.

DrCyanideDec 17, 201410 votes

You said the following:

the rework boosted Sona's win rate in pro games exponentially

You then ignored anything remotely close to pro games for your stats.

The closest filters you could pick are Ranked 5x5, Master+. When you do that, Sona drops off your top win rates.

If you have better stats to support your claim they would be interesting to see.

Demonsolder21Dec 17, 20148 votes

I believe this guy is trolling xD

Raid Boss MordeDec 17, 20141 votes

Sona can deal over 1000 damage with a Q and an AA. I think she's fine now.

FuIlmute AllDec 17, 201412 votes

{quoted}

Sona can deal over 1000 damage with a Q and an AA. I think she's fine now.

I'm quite sure anybody with ap scaling can deal over 1000 damage with a basic ability + AA with lich bane +500ap...

Raid Boss MordeDec 18, 20142 votes

Ok, that's true. HOWEVER, I did the math, and at level 18 with 700 AP, she would deal 1713.75 damage with her empowered Q + AA (Including passive). If you say that isn't broken, then I don't know what is. Also, the only thing I didn't add is the extra damage you get on your auto attacks when you have more AP than AD.

DiostukosDec 18, 20145 votes

{quoted}

Ok, that's true. HOWEVER, I did the math, and at level 18 with 700 AP, she would deal 1713.75 damage with her empowered Q + AA (Including passive). If you say that isn't broken, then I don't know what is. Also, the only thing I didn't add is the extra damage you get on your auto attacks when you have more AP than AD.

Um, I think your math is wrong because I got 1319.5?

Hymn of Valor [ bolt (200 +.5ap) + on-hit (100 +.2ap)] + Staccato (319.5 +.3ap) = 619.5 +1.0ap

700 ap would make it 619.5+700= 1319.5

Origami KaijuDec 18, 20144 votes

Also, where is Support Sona (on summoners rift) going to get the gold for all that AP? You would have to give up core support items to reach that (Sightstone, Locket, Crucible ect). And then because you're all damage and no defense, you're going to get instantly blown up by practically anyone.

Rinky DinkyDec 18, 20144 votes

Lets also mention the fact that a good support is not going to get that much AP ever.

XonraDec 18, 20144 votes

{quoted}

Lets also mention the fact that a good support is not going to get that much AP ever.

The part I bolded is the important part of this sentence. I hear all kinds of randos saying "just build ap, I build fill in the blank with whatever expensive ap item all the time", then you realize they don't buy their gold income item past maybe tier 1, don't buy a sighstone, buy zero pink wards, only have tier 1 boots at the end of the game, etc.

Sure you can get a zhonyas on Morg for example but that isn't (or shouldn't) be an every game thing unless it is a 100 kill normal game.

I get tired of people playing "support" and getting no gold income item, no sighstone, never buy a pink, then rush ap and claim they are supporting while there is no vision on their side of the map. This is why Sona currently ISN'T good, because to make her as good as she was pre-nerf(rework) you have to build a lot of AP, and you NEVER will if you are actually playing support and not random kill assistant, never warding bot laner.