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%hp runes should be buffed

Nosnide··46 votes·1,712 views

#reposted, no comments on op

If you rack the quints and seals for %health they equl +9% max health. At lv 1 with like 600 hp that equals 54. So you would start off with about 2/3 of what you'd get with only flat health seals, which would leave quints open for whatever. Of course it would scale better into the late game, but it is definitely nothing much. with 3000 hp you'd get a bonus 270 HP. You could have just went hp/lv seals for the 216 health at lv 18 and you'd have your quints open for whatever. I think the %health runes could use a buff. No one ever uses them for a reason, they are far too weak. I realized this messing with runes for a support page (nautilus). I think boosting seals from 0.5% -> 0.75% and quints from 1.5% -> 2.25% would still be healthy, and definitely add a reason to consider using the runes. That would total it to 13.5% from 9%. That means at lv 1 with 600 hp you'd get a bonus of 81 health. slightly over what you would get with flat health seals. However lets not forget you are also using your quints here. So it balances out. with 3000 hp you'd get a bonus of 405 hp. If you are going for a very high HP build like 4000 hp that'd get you a bonus 540 hp. Even then, especially for supports it'd be a tough choice to sacrifice 4*3=12 armor from quints alone for 6.75% max health boost. It is a weaker start. I just think we have some runes in the shadow of the more mainstream stuff.

43 Comments

MunchCrunchLunch11 votes

incoming "BUT UGH. <Insert tank champ here > WILL ABUSE THEM"

They are currently UNUSEABLE. can't we find a middle ground. we don't need to make them give 20% MAX HP per seal.

Evewynn1 votes

I mean, this is a good point, but if these runes are buffed too much then some champs will be buffed in the process. If that is found to be too much, then what? Nerf those champs? All that does is make %hp runes a mandatory purchase if you want to play those champs at the same power as before.

It Hertz When IP2 votes

I would actually pay money to see a whole patch go by with +20% max HP seals being a thing. Just for the hilarity.

Celestial Lion127 votes

item 1401 item 1409 item 1413 Sejuani

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

20% max HP total or per?

Cause I can think of some fun Volibear builds with +180% max HP.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Oh, definitely per.

Mundo would be damn near unkillable while ulting.

Spoofghoul1 votes

and sion passive would live for a minute

It Hertz When IP4 votes

Nah, he'd still get CC'ed and die in about four seconds.

Spoofghoul2 votes

probably yes

sad isn't it

item 3070

Volcanuz1 votes

Vayne + ruin + doms. drool

morris12 votes

Sion item 3748 Do you even juggernaut bro.

ChaoticPinecone6 votes

The problem is that balance isnt achieved that easily. For example, lets think about %Max Health vs Flat and Scaling Health seals:

  • Flat gives you 72.
  • Scaling gives 12 at level 1, 216 at level 18.
  • % health gives 4.5% of max health.

From that, we know:

  • Scaling Health outscales Flat at level 6.
  • % max health is better than Flat at 1600 HP. (In game, this is level 9 with one health item)
  • % Max Health is better than Scaling at early levels. At level 1, you need 266 base health to match. At level 2, you need 533 (I believe the lowest - excluding Kled - is Anivia, and she will hit this with Dorans). At level 3, you need 800 - a small handfull of champs will hit this with their starting items alone, but a decent amount will hit this with their starting item+Veterans scars. At level 4, you need 1066, which is practically impossible.
  • Everything aside from health stacking supertanks are better with Scaling Health at level 18 (unless you get more than 4,844 HP)

So what does it mean? % max health is the bridge between the two. Its not as strong as Flat at level 1-3, but its stronger than Scaling. Its not as strong as Scaling at 1600 HP, but its stronger than Flat. Its a neutral choice between the health options if you arent sure if youre going to survive 1-3, but want something that scales into the game.

The problem I see is that at the end of the day, the difference between Flat and Scaling Health at level 1 is 60 HP. Thats like, at max, 2 autoattacks. There really is no need for the middleground, since the decision to pick one over the other has a minuscule impact in-game and for the first 5 minutes of the game. The problem with buffing the middleground to a point of reasonable viability is that they become so strong that both the Flat and the Scaling would be second-best. Youre basically deleting two other sets just to make 1 set viable, instead of having 2 viable sets with 1 set unviable.

NazZomLord6 votes

Sion Yes YES YESESSSSSSS

AbrahamBaconham4 votes

Better idea; adjust stats and scalings accordingly and remove runes from the game because they're pointless and broken.

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

Better idea; adjust stats and scalings accordingly and remove runes from the game because they're pointless and broken.

no, I love the customization and match of specific runes I can use

runes offer more meaningful adaptability than masteries and more opportunities to theorycraft (which I find very fun person)

see this

regarding the thread title, all the %HP runes could use a tiny buff (5%) but they're not too far from being viable

%HP seals are stronger early than scaling HP

AbrahamBaconham1 votes

They also create a reverse learning curve for beginning players, are almost 100% necessary if you want to jungle with more than 3 champions, are an unnecessarily large IP investment, and the whole "meaningful choice" thing is already far better expressed through the mastery system.

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

They also create a reverse learning curve for beginning players, are almost 100% necessary if you want to jungle with more than 3 champions, are an unnecessarily large IP investment, and the whole "meaningful choice" thing is already far better expressed through the mastery system.

I never said they should be expensive. I think no Rune should cost more than 100 IP. However, I DO NOT agree with dumbing down the game for the sake of beginners. Runes are one of my favorite customization options and provide a platform to demonstrate creativity and game knowledge. Ideally, they'd be free and editable in game like masteries are.

Odinakos2 votes

Allright lets breakdown the maths.

For Quints you need 1733 hp to break even with flat hp. You need 3240 hp to break even with Hp/lvl. For seals the breakpoints go to 1600 and 4800.

Quints seem just decent tbh. They compete with hp/lvl. Since you dont know if you will reach the breakpoint, it is safer to take hp/lvl atm. Getting them to 2.25 would bring the breakpoint at 2160 hp so they would be OP. 1.75% would be a good number with breakpoint at 2780 hp that is something tanks will def reach in late game. That way you would have flats for early tankyness, hp/lvl for bruisers and supports that dont always reach that, but would love extra hp, and last but not least %hp for tanks.

As for seals. They are way behild, only benefitial to chos mundos and afk farm sions. Just kidding, not even on them. Your suggestion brings the breakpoint to 3200 hp, pretty spot on number. What would love is flats at 12hp so at lvl 9 they break even with hp/lvl.

LordGeovanni1 votes

%should be clearly ahead not competing when you build hp

Odinakos1 votes

No it should compete with hp/lvl because whats the point in the latter? When competing, %health favors tanks(or whoever wants to build lots hp) because they are gonna easily reach breakpoint, while hp/lvl favors those that are not sure they gonna reach it, but need some extra hp. It gives more options.

If % was ahead when building hp and the braekpoint is low, then they would be OP for tanks and rather make hp/lvl useless 2780 and 3200 hp (close to Mogs) are good breakpoints. Seriously whats the point of getting one hp item and hp/lvl when you can get two along with %hp and get a lot more?.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Rather you would be chancing that you will get ahead versus steady gains which is how games should be you take chances and if you win you get better pay offs. while if you take a safer route you get garenteed pay offs.

Odinakos1 votes

Hey that is what i was suggesting. Get the breakpoints close to Warmog's. They are pretty good. If we got them any lower, %hp would be better with just a deadmans or SS+locket. Those are cases for hp/lvl. It is not only about risk, but options also.

%hp: Champs that build more than one hp item like tanks, some tank supports, bruisers or Vlad. hp/lvl: Champs that need the extra hp but wont bother building more than one hp item. Like one hp item bruisers, mages with Rylais/RoA, some supports. Flat hp: Someone that needs hp early. So far the breakpoints is way too low to even consider them.

There is a risk that you wont reach the breakpoint, so thats still there. But the primary use of runes is versatility not risk vs reward.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Tell that to this season where everyone one gets flat runes because its reward is greater in lane allowing you to snowball a game. And your explanation of versatility of course %hp shouldnt be better just on the first item but 3rd hp item is should be turning up better than hp/ level for %. Tank stats are the only thing tanks have going for them and there are tons of options to circumvent the effectiveness of those tank stats. 4 hp item tank shouldnt be breaking even with mages or bruisers for hp who have more damage than them and range (mages other ranged classes) and often same or more mobility and cc.

Ryuyah1 votes

item 1401 item 1409 item 1413 give 15% bonus HP Stack it with %HP runes and you get loads of free HP

It Hertz When IP14 votes

So basically only health-stacking junglers can get them to "not shit" status. Please excuse my lack of boundless enthusiasm.

EcchiOtakuTM5 votes

% hp runes are a noob trap, scaling hp runes offer more also if you'd think, cindhulk is still purchasable with scaling hp so wtf type of logic is that?

LankPants3 votes

Stack it with %HP runes and you get loads of free HP

I'd advise you to look up the definition of the word 'free'. You pay for the HP on runes in the opportunity cost of armour and Cinderhulk has a gold cost.

ViciousSummoner1 votes

% max HP is fine where it's at. They're only good if you pass 3k HP. Where as champs who don't have the insane 3k HP having per level or even flat HP is much better.

PB4UAME1 votes

So good no one takes them on Vlad, Sion, Mundo, Cho etc ever. Yeah, no. They aren't good, and could seriously use a buff; particularly the seals that break even with hp/level at 4,800 fucking hp.

moeasymoney1 votes

[deleted]

LordGeovanni1 votes

you are assumeing they have those runes based on urf videos

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

Like others have pointed out item 1401 exists making this impossible to balance properly.

A Basic Island1 votes

they do need to, but i think if they're buffed they'd be too good

they were a mistake to begin with imo. They're either insanely bad like they are now, or after a certain point they'd likely be way too powerful

Saianna1 votes

Rito dislikes %HP runes. Unless it's %HP DMG then yeah sure.

Ace Access 1 votes

I say make them give 2.5%

TotalJerk1 votes

They don't want a wide range of viable runes because that means more runes beginners will need to buy to play optimally.

Breaku1 votes

Well, they can't be better than flat@level 1, because what would be the purpose of flat then?

They should probably seek to be better than scaling at some point past level 18.

Champion Skin1 votes

%Seals + %quints can be better then flat hp seals at level 1

Breaku1 votes

So but then what would be the point of flat ones?

Champion Skin1 votes

Because you can also run flat hp quints on top of using seals to get even more hp at level 1

Kyrrion1 votes

{quoted}

So but then what would be the point of flat ones?

The same thing all the other flat runes are good for.

Pure early game advantage.

Breaku1 votes

.........but this guy just said that the % ones would be better than the flat one at level 1?

Kyrrion2 votes

{quoted}

.........but this guy just said that the % ones would be better than the flat one at level 1?

My bad.

I hate these new boards still. It's formatted oddly on my computer and I can't seem to find the way to fix it.

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