Explain how ranged champions have a bias/advantage in top lane.

Weathered··1 votes·1,414 views

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So apparently the offenders in this subject are Kayle, Quinn, Jayce, and Kennen.

Kayle has had a good winrate for ages, similar to Amumu. She is just simply a safe pick and is consistant. I can't find any argument how Kayle is abnormally opressive compared to other top laners.

Quinn is "oppressive" top lane because of her Youmuus rush. Lethality is being introduced, and will significantly reduce her early game effectiveness, or more likely just force her to build crit or an adc style build. A crit build is focused on late game, and most top laners will be able to take advantage to Quinns lack of mobility to simply shut her down and delay the build.

Jayce, I will admit, is very good in lane. He recently got buffs that helped him return to a place where he is being used (he was simply forgotten for a time), and I wouldn't argue the fact that he needs maybe a mana nerf. That being said, he is not as good as most make him out to be late game. He has no meaningful cc, and if he is not picked into a comp that works well with poke, he is left behind in fights and is able to be picked off. People will argue that he is able to try to nuke a carry, but that is more of a matter of setting than Jayce himself. He is easily peeled because his abilities for up close nuking are telegraphed and he is forced to simply run at the target.

For Kennen, I can't find an argument for him being opressive. He is very good in late game team fights, but he has to build AP to do so. He is sitting at a steady 50%/51% winrate and there isn't a part of his kit that would make people be frustrated with him.

17 Comments

GULAG 4 U3 votes

Yasuo was nerfed when he had a 48% winrate. Olaf was nerfed when he had a 49% winrate. Azir was nerfed at a 47% winrate.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? WINRATES MEAN NOTHING

hunterspec2 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo was nerfed when he had a 48% winrate. Olaf was nerfed when he had a 49% winrate. Azir was nerfed at a 47% winrate.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? WINRATES MEAN NOTHING

yasuo was nerfed when he had a 56 winrate?

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Inflated by a bug perhaps? Because it was at 48 in the midlane the patch before when he was still busted? It doesn't matter, it proves my pointn. Winrates mean nothing.

hunterspec2 votes

{quoted}

Inflated by a bug perhaps? Because it was at 48 in the midlane the patch before when he was still busted? It doesn't matter, it proves my pointn. Winrates mean nothing.

"midlane" he was mostly played top....?

GULAG 4 U1 votes

It's used to make my point. I purposely listed his midlane winrate to prove my point, winrates don't mean shit.

Primaquarius1 votes

Imma give you the Azir nerfs, the removal of his Tower shred mechanic left him with an extremely shortened list of counterpicks

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Many champions were buffed with over 50% winrate and nerfed with under 50%. Winrates simply don't mean shit.

Primaquarius1 votes

Unless its LeeSin

Zach Sandwhich1 votes

I'd just like to point out that winrates aren't a good statistic to look at, as when champions become popular (AKA all ranged top laners right now) their winrates drop due to newbies who don't know how to play that champion efficiently.

Weathered1 votes

I only listed winrates to determine which champions people are talking about. The rest of the posts for the most part ignores numbers and is just talking about the now chosen champions.

Zach Sandwhich1 votes

{quoted}

I only listed winrates to determine which champions people are talking about. The rest of the posts for the most part ignores numbers and is just talking about the now chosen champions.

I understand. It's just you can't bring up winrates in a discussion like this, when they simply don't matter. They're FotM so unless its hilariously broken like AP Yeezus, then their winrate should go down.

SithesisLord1 votes

as when champions become popular (AKA all ranged top laners right now)

And then i go to Champion.gg and see that the 10 most played champions in top lane are all melee with the exception of three, those being Jayce, Kennen and Gnar, in order of most played to least played.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

Because they can poke you at essentially no cost to themselves, while you have to use abilities to fight back, if you can at all. A melee top (who isn't someone like Renekton or Pantheon) has to manage the wave carefully, understand when to go in for CS, and understand when to fight, whereas a ranged top just has to AA without drawing too much aggro. It's extremely frustrating, even if you do outscale them/teamfight better.

Most of these champions are also more oppressive than you make them out to be. Jayce's knockback is very meaningful CC, especially considering it's a 1v1 lane. He can trade very well, all while farming easily and poking from a distance. Kennen is just hard to catch, and he also has quite a bit of CC. His poke isn't nearly as strong, but his teamfight is absurd; you can shut him down as hard as you want, but he'll just protobelt>R>zhonya's in teamfights and he'll still be extremely useful.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i believe Jayce over buffs were due to Gnar Rumble

Kennen has cc range and super fukin fast and benefits from op item like item 3152 item 3116 while being safe and getting item 3157

Quinn is feast of famine and you need the right comp to benefit dual adc comp but Pantheon counters her so hard...

Weathered1 votes

Protobelt has nerfs on the PBE and Rylais is getting a rework soon~

Drakylon1 votes

"Jayce - Playerbase average games: 29.04 ... Kennen - Playerbase average games: 17.73"

Go look at the statistics for 100+ games played, or even 50+. Jayce in particular shoots up to an astounding 59.39% winrate at 125+ games played, and sits at 54.15 with 50-125 games played. Kennen also increases dramatically at 125+ games played, but for some reason declines between 15-50 and 50-125.

The fact that players not evidently comfortable on Jayce and Kennen can compete with dedicated Riven, Irelia and Darius players in terms of winrate is what needs to be looked at.

Another statistic to look at is winrate in games ranging from 0 to 20 minutes long, which is a good indication of lane power. Jayce, Kennen and Kayle all have their highest winrates in that game length bracket, and all significantly above 50%.

Notably Kayle was only played top-lane in 58% of games that had her in them. The other two roles were Jungle and Mid, at 13.59% and 25.65% respectively.

The Deckowner1 votes

Jayce 52% win rate with metasheeps who has 0~25 games experience with him.

for a lot of champions it requires 125 games to reach that win rate.

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