New Assassin item coming soon

Bârd·Dec 19, 2015·11 votes·2,466 views

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/GhWdm3R6-new-ad-assassin-item-in-internal-testing

I fear this item.

25% of a champions missing health as an item effect is terrifying.

39 Comments

TehNACHODec 19, 20154 votes

Not too bad imo.

I mean, think of it like this. The only way for that item to kill you is if you are below 20% of your health (ignoring Armor. At level 18, base armor means you're closer to like 13% health (yes I factored in the item's armor pen) in order to die). If an AD Assassin auto attacked you while you're that low, you're probably dead otherwise.

Then consider that Tanks have a lot more Effective Health than the majority of AD Assassins can realistically cut down in only 2 seconds. An Assassin alone could not possibly become an Anti-Tank through the introduction of this item alone.

You must also consider this item is a +3000 gold item. For 75 AD and 10 Penetration, building this item basically locks you into that burst based Assassination play style by only giving you stats that are good at killing squishes. Yet one more component to avoiding making this item an anti-tank Assassin tool.

And then there's simply how easy it is to fudge it. 60 seconds of cooldown simply because you auto attacked at not the right time means that it's going to be a weird item to utilize in lane. Trading is stupendously more precarious because mistiming Nightfall could make the difference in securing or losing a kill. It means Assassins like Yasuo or Zed that move quickly around multiple targets on a battlefield can far too easily drop Nightfall on the wrong target. It means any screw up in the combo, from enemy CC to positioning errors, will lead to an often irreversible loss of Nightfall's power, given that you only have a 2 second window to frontload onto the enemy.

WheatloafDec 19, 20154 votes

Am I the only one that likes this idea more than just giving assassins ambiently more damage?

Mat7itanDec 19, 20153 votes

This had better not go through. It's going to make DFG look like a child's toy.

Mr Broken WingsDec 19, 201511 votes

{quoted}

This had better not go through. It's going to make DFG look like a child's toy.

Nope. Dfg was an active. Dfg made your combo stronger on top of the extra damage. Its not even comparable at this point.

AATTRROOXXDec 19, 20152 votes

Read this. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/red-post-collection-league-community.html

Shroom JunkieDec 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This had better not go through. It's going to make DFG look like a child's toy.

Okay, I admit it'll be bad... but not THAT bad.

AzteryzDec 19, 20153 votes

to be honest i can see this item being not that bad and easily counterable for example

Rammus taunts a Zed BOOM the passive is now gone for 60 seconds

VaporeonKunDec 19, 20151 votes

Taunts would be it's biggest counter, then again if you'd taunted the assassin they'll most likely be dead so it won't be too much of a coutner... At least when it comes to putting it on cooldown.

AzteryzDec 19, 20151 votes

i dont think shen or rammus with a couple of items making an assassin auto attack them would full on make them dead

VaporeonKunDec 19, 20151 votes

I'm referring to having a teammate with you or two. Usually you'll be able to stop them from committing their full combos or damage in those cases not as individuals.

GrReaper96Dec 19, 20153 votes

Now just imagine a Zed with this item

Creeamy SheevDec 19, 20152 votes

I think Talon would be much much worse

Soma VermillionDec 19, 20151 votes

The times when you aren't fed and can't kill the Vayne with AA+Q alone cuz she tumbles away right after... They're gone now o-o

Shroom JunkieDec 19, 20152 votes

I main assassins so I'll like it myself... however I have to admit that's broken as hell.

AATTRROOXXDec 19, 20152 votes

Read this before making judgements. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/red-post-collection-league-community.html

Shroom JunkieDec 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Read this before making judgements. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/red-post-collection-league-community.html

What about it? Do you mean how its saying you'll probably kill them before it triggers? Because, a lot of times you don't, and you have to stay on to get the kill and probably die(unless nobody is around) or get the hell out before you die. However with this item you could still get out before you die and get the kill at the same time. It could mean a lot to assassins in the long run. Obviously we should wait to see how it pans out but, we've been doing that for months now, tons of things have turned out wrong and Riot hasn't fixed anything.

AATTRROOXXDec 19, 20152 votes

I simply said to read before judgments, and I am glad that you read it, and you have now made your judgment which you can do what you like with.

BluePolarizerDec 19, 20152 votes

lmao so every AD champ gets a rank 5 Fizz W with 500 AP equivalent for buying this item. wow.

Its All SkillzzDec 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

lmao so every AD champ gets a rank 5 Fizz W with 500 AP equivalent for buying this item. wow.

they get a zed ult lol.

AATTRROOXXDec 19, 20153 votes

Its melee only if you read any of the responses. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/red-post-collection-league-community.html

Meep ManDec 19, 20152 votes

Im gonna build it on Garen for more JUSTICE! Q in, E, then R.

Shiyo KozukiDec 19, 20152 votes

AD assassins, especially zed, are already a huge problem. They do not need new overpowered items.

NoobLearninGameDec 19, 20151 votes

Hmm, been a lot of times with Shaco where something like this would have helped me finish off a jumpy Vayne, Kalista too probably, or Graves/Lucian.

Mr Broken WingsDec 19, 20151 votes

Oh baby, riven will be so cancer to play against. CANT WAIT FOR THIS ITEM. .... On a serious note, I predict assasin nerfs after the release. Rengar who can oneshot bruisers and tanks equally like adc right now will make him permabann status.

RedagaDec 19, 20151 votes

yay, lets buff assassins, not like people already have crazy damage outputs with Zed and Yasuo and clean the floor on anything not build like a tank

AATTRROOXXDec 19, 20152 votes

To execute them, not calculating defenses, it would require doing over 80% of their health at which point they are most likely dead. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/red-post-collection-league-community.html

WhatAGeiniusDec 19, 20152 votes

Who would build this item on Yasuo? Why would you build this item on Yasuo?

TransgressorDec 19, 20151 votes

I don't think AD assasins need any help at all.

What they need is actual counterplay; rushing item 3157 against Zed is not counterplay. Rengar and Shaco popping out of thin air and critting you to oblivion is not counterplay.

They say it might be turned into melee only to avoid abuse cases, but I don't see any way of this being balanced in the game; I can't imagine the amount of power champions will have to trade, in order to be able to buy a, itemized Zed ult.

BârdDec 19, 20156 votes

Yeah, Zed has counterplay. There is an entire group of items that mitigate him, not even counting the armor item 3157 item 3140 item 3102 item 3812 item 3046 item 3026 His main damage source is his ult, which is easily countered by those items, or some shield/heal/lifesaverspell. Along with this, Zed is squishy, so getting CC'd for as long as a second in a teamfight will kill him.

Oh, and lets not forget that his ult damage is reliant entirely on his other spells, so dodge his Q's and you will negate a large portion of the damage.

Shaco is a champion full of nuances that take a long ass time to master. In the right hands he is terrifying, but he is far from op.

Rengar though, I hate with a passion. He takes the stealth and instagibbing that shaco does to another level, but also has some durability, CC, and a snowball mechanic built into his kit.

As much as I hate Rengar, though, he doesn't need nerfs. Not direct nerfs, anyway. What we need against Rengar is a PINK WARD TRINKET.

Big LincolnDec 19, 20151 votes

shaco being hard to master doesn't eliminate him having absolutely zero counterplay

Shroom JunkieDec 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Angry Bards,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEbEsXzW,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2015-12-19T14:29:25.470+0000)

shaco being hard to master doesn't eliminate him having absolutely zero counterplay

Yeah he does. Put wards on the inner-area of the river like by the entrance to blue buff jungle or the dragon pit, make sure to get some deep wards in his jungle to track where he is, and always watch for the puff of smoke. Its especially easy to spot if he's using the Indian skin(can't remember what its called). When the puff of smoke comes or a fight erupts, make sure you let your support know, or if you are the support, to drop a red scanner or a pink ward.

As a Shaco main, Shacos usually try to go invisible just before the bush because its the generic place to put it and they don't want to be spotted just before they come in, and if they don't do that well, you've just gotten vision on them anyway. If you're on purple-team bot side have a bush in the tribush there so he doesn't jump over the wall to it, but you'll probably spot him from your river ward going there in the first place so that isn't a must.

Honestly, vision is a Shaco's greatest enemy. He's easy to get away but if you bait him into thinking you have no vision on him, he'll blow all his escapes (Q and box and most Shacos don't take flash so that's out of the picture), and if you red trinket him before he can place his box or jump on you, your support or if you're top lane you can use any defenses or CC you have beforehand. If you're bot... you can usually beat him 2v1 before his allies get there.

Oh, speaking of which, that's also a weakness if you want to keep that in mind. Generally, as a Shaco you just get to lane and if there's an opening jump in ASAP, at that point his allies will probably start charging forward at you before his stealth breaks, and because Shaco has no more gap closers(assuming he's used his Q), if he's not already on you, you can just run toward your tower and get away.

If you've overextended and he ganks then... I don't know. You'll just have to hope you're stronger than Shaco, I guess, lol. But that's with all junglers, so.

Not to say Shaco isn't strong, he is, else I wouldn't play him as my main(besides the fact he's so fun <3), but he does have plenty of weaknesses and lots of counterplay compared to other junglers like Rengar, who can just stealth into your lane then jump on you and root you, or Zac, or Rek'sai who can jump or tunnel in behind you.

StreetonDec 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think AD assasins need any help at all.

What they need is actual counterplay; rushing against Zed is not counterplay. Rengar and Shaco popping out of thin air and critting you to oblivion is not counterplay.

They say it might be turned into melee only to avoid abuse cases, but I don't see any way of this being balanced in the game; I can't imagine the amount of power champions will have to trade, in order to be able to buy a, itemized Zed ult.

yeah it is mate

VaporeonKunDec 19, 20151 votes

The only thing I'm confused about is how the trigger works. I didn't see anything (or maybe just didn't read hard enough) about how if it applies what missing health they have when it is proc'd or when it's 2 seconds are up.

I'm confusing myself trying to explain. Basically what I want to know is:

If they have something like 800/1000 HP when I've marked them, will the damage be based on what their missing health was the EXACT moment I marked them (in this case 25% of the 200HP) doing that damage regardless of how much lower I get them when it explodes or will it not matter and it bases the damage on what their current missing health is when the mark explode?

BârdDec 19, 20151 votes

No.

The damage they take from nightfall is equal to 25% their missing health at the time of detonation.

VaporeonKunDec 19, 20151 votes

Okay, that's what I was unsure about. Thanks for clearing that up!

DoFrDec 19, 20151 votes

time to unbench the talon

ZerglingOneDec 19, 20151 votes

On the plus side, it's not the easiest effect to control. Errantly auto attacking someone without intending to all-in them causes a 60s CD that does basically nothing. It also requires that all damage be dealt within 2 seconds before the effect pops (if the target is at full initially)

The only major problem I see with the item is multiple people on a team getting it and stacking the effect for focus fire. Losing 25% of your missing health 3 times would not end well I don't imagine.

I'd say in most cases it's rarely going to do more than 12-15% of your missing health because of armor, and in most of THOSE cases, it's not going to be fatal because if someone can get you to 10% health, you're probably dead anyway.

SeenanDec 19, 20151 votes

'If it's a problem on ADCs, it'll be Melee Only.'

I like this a lot. Means it can't be abused by cheesy mids (or in this case, ADCs) like Ezreal with old Runeglaive and get it nerfed.

Talon's gonna love this item for sure. Rengar's gonna become even scarier. The concept for this item is great. A Zed rushing this might be a tad op though.

Harass you to..maybe 75% of your hp -> ult into combo and AA, you're probably dead cause 2 different bursts are about to f your day up and your hp is already almost gone from his combo anyway.