Ashe changes - Garbage tier champion now

SanKakU··1 votes·952 views

What happened to her? Roughly 3 things.

  1. She got a new ability while 2 of her abilities got combined into 1.

  2. Two of her abilities got nerfed really hard (details below).

  3. Her critical strike functionality is totally different now, which is interesting.

The biggest point at a glance seems to be the third thing, since it's definitely the most interesting, but it's not. The biggest point are the nerfs. In fact the first thing is also a bigger deal, but practically nothing still compared to the second thing.

Her scouting ability got nerfed a lot. It no longer generates bonus gold for her. That could be argued that it made her too good, and they did make it so you can cast it twice quickly now, so if you don't get good vision the first time you can try again, or you can just try to get more vision anyway. That's worthwhile I suppose. Definitely not enough to make up for the gold income loss, but it's a start.

Where else to make up for the nerf? Well, her basic ability now lets you get percentage chance runes to increase overall damage, which I'm guessing means that anything that increases critical strike damage is a waste of gold or rune slots or master points now. Of course, you can still increase it by buying damage, so it's like whatever. She was getting critical strikes before and she's getting them now. Whether this is an outright nerf or a buff is very very questionable. Her new ability? Definitely a buff, since you can now increase the slow against targets to make it harder for them to run away. It also costs very little mana so you generally can use it whenever you want. Late game, the attack speed will be very useful in duels. As it was, I found attack speed runes usually more useful on her than critical strike damage runes anyway, so the new ability helps her quite a bit.

But there's another nerf...this is the biggest amputation of an ability I've ever seen in this game so far. Volley now only hits one unit. The logic behind this change utterly escapes me. If they were trying to nerf it, they went way too far. I get that maybe they were trying to nerf it, but I can't help but feel like they tried to buff it for some odd reason and the number tweaking went horribly wrong. If they truly intended to nerf it they failed really hard. It's a worthless skill and I do not plan on learning it or leveling it up unless other skill points options are exhausted. I get that it theoretically can hit 9 units now, which supposedly is a buff from the previous number of 7, but since the collision width is astronomical now, and on top of that, units can only take damage from one arrow per volley, it means that it's way too easy to counter play, you don't even have to try to counter it, it's virtually useless. I haven't done the math or extensive testing, but in actual practice there are too many gap closers for this to remain like this, even if my guess is wrong. And my guess is that the units she's trying to hit with volley have to be all of them at her maximum range to hit all 9 of them, spread out perfectly, and even though I'm somewhat doubtful all of them are damaged. I'm surprised this went through PBE unmolested with flames. I doubt it's even realistically possible for it to hit as many as 4 units with the new volley, perfect conditions included. Compare this skill to that of another marksman, Graves is picked competitively because his splash attack is so functional. Ashe's new splash attack is decidedly dysfunctional. You might as well completely remove volley if you hated the old one so much, Riot.

14 Comments

Sightless663 votes

Well, her basic ability now lets you get percentage chance runes to increase overall damage, which I'm guessing means that anything that increases critical strike damage is a waste of gold or rune slots or master points now.

You guess wrong. Crit damage increases the bonus damage she gets from crit chance. For example, if she has an IE, she'll get 20% crit chance, the effectiveness of which will then be increased by 50% from the crit damage bonus, giving her 30% bonus damage (40% when you add in the extra 0.1 she gets tacked on).

Technically, this should be a very, very slight buff. Her dps should be exactly the same as a normal ADC's outside of the extra 0.1 damage her crit autos do.

Her scouting ability got nerfed a lot.

Debatable. The gold generation was replaced with global vision and the ability to store charges. That is massively useful.

My impression is that you overestimate how much the volley nerf hurts her and you really underestimate how good the new Q is. You didn't even mention the arrow flurry. That thing does absolutely stupid amounts of damage. That's a huge addition to the kit. Yeah, she lost some power from the W, but she got a heck of a lot more added into that new Q of hers.

KidSpectre2 votes

Pro Tip: If you interrupt Ashe during her Q--including and especially just making her run around to dodge things--then her DPS goes down dramatically.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Pro Tip: If you interrupt Ashe during her Q--including and especially just making her run around to dodge things--then her DPS goes down dramatically.

thats what the arrow and your support are for. run an aggressive support who can lock up your target and you wont have a problem shredding someone to pieces during the q.

your argument is the same as any ad carry with an attack speed steroid.

lock twitch up during his ult and he cant do anything. lock vayne up during her ult and she doesnt get the bonus damage...

with the new ashe, i noticed i have no problem outduelling other adc or dealing a crazy amount of damage with enough peel.

KidSpectre1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0nbLB8b,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-05-16T16:09:33.080+0000)

thats what the arrow and your support are for. run an aggressive support who can lock up your target and you wont have a problem shredding someone to pieces during the q.

your argument is the same as any ad carry with an attack speed steroid.

lock twitch up during his ult and he cant do anything. lock vayne up during her ult and she doesnt get the bonus damage...

with the new ashe, i noticed i have no problem outduelling other adc or dealing a crazy amount of damage with enough peel.

Well, I mean, that's the nature of ADCs. Your argument is no different than mine in that regard. With enough peel, EVERY ADC can do crazy amounts of damage. Have you seen Draven 2-shotting people? It's not uncommon. There are entire strategies centered around "protect the Kog'Maw/Vayne."

Draven: Make him drop his axes Twitch: CC him during his ult Vayne: See Twitch; also, force her to switch targets Varus: Don't let him proc Blight stacks

The list goes on. Every ADC has their counterplay one way or another. Once people get used to Ashe's new moves, she'll fall in line.

Gym Leader Yaki1 votes

I've been getting told that she's overpowered by some people. That her damage is just way too high. I don't understand people.. from one extreme to another..

disregardable2 votes

Yeah, her Q is very strong right now, much stronger than she was with old Volley+The gold passive combined. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I have never played an ADC before and thought "Wow, she's so broken with Ghostblade."

SanKakU1 votes

From what I can tell, armor counters her easily if all she's doing is building stuff like Phantom Dancer. But most people don't get armor and then blame the enemy champion when they die.

ZephyrDrake4 votes

{quoted}

From what I can tell, armor counters her easily if all she's doing is building stuff like Phantom Dancer. But most people don't get armor and then blame the enemy champion when they die.

an ADC being countered by armor? what a shocker! sorry but that's not an argument at all. I can say the exact same thing about any ADC that's not named Kog since he does quite a bit of magic damage and maybe Vayne due to her true damage

Wickedfates1 votes

i think she is just shiny and new... so people are playing her who are not as good, who are new to her, and her capabilities, and maybe to the role of adc....

then you have people who are trying her out again, or bringing her back into their rotation, or just want to see the changes, good adc's tearing stuff up because the people they are playing against are not used to the new ashe....

i say give it a lil bit of time before you decided one way or the other where she falls now

Mandang01 votes

The volley change is because it felt buggy when you'd be perfectly hidden behind your creeps, yet still get hit by volley. I agree it's a nerf, but it's a nerf that feels better to play against, so I support it.

Honestly, I think the biggest nerf to Ashe is the loss of her ability to spike someone w/ crit (and do so semi-reliably with her old passive). Ashe will be the poster child for why you can't simply turn crit into an averaged-out dps increase - it's a ton weaker when you do.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

youre probably not playing her properly because youre playing and building her like you used to. she is in fact insanely powerful. she shreds turrets almost as fast as jinx, and item 3085 is now one of the strongest items on her, as it procs twice per volley. but its not the only reason. after she has a decent amount of crit she scales incredibly with attack speed, since she can put out more volleys during the buff duration.

combined with a bork and a shiv, this creates pretty ridiculous effects.

the volley also allows her to make really effective use of item 3071 + item 3035 against heavy armored targets. crit increases her damage just like it used to. but it evens the damage out over every shot, instead of creating damage spikes.

she has lost her level 1 w + crit nuke, but gained some pretty serious carrying potential.

both her item options aswell as her general strength in fights increased drastically with the rework.

Austin Covello1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0nbLB8b,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-05-16T15:17:00.454+0000)

youre probably not playing her properly because youre playing and building her like you used to. she is in fact insanely powerful. she shreds turrets almost as fast as jinx, and item 3085 is now one of the strongest items on her, as it procs twice per volley. but its not the only reason. after she has a decent amount of crit she scales incredibly with attack speed, since she can put out more volleys during the buff duration.

combined with a bork and a shiv, this creates pretty ridiculous effects.

the volley also allows her to make really effective use of item 3071 + item 3035 against heavy armored targets. crit increases her damage just like it used to. but it evens the damage out over every shot, instead of creating damage spikes.

she has lost her level 1 w + crit nuke, but gained some pretty serious carrying potential.

both her item options aswell as her general strength in fights increased drastically with the rework.

IDK, I built a traditional (item 3006 ,item 3031 item 3046 item 3072 item 3035 item 3078 and then replaced boots with item 3172 ) Ashe and went 36/1 when I was practicing with her. I always use lifesteal quints on her, though, for a bit more sustain, instead of crit or AS.

Mob Psycho 1001 votes

I'm not taking you seriously, considering you just started playing this season and you only have 5 games in the last 30 days.

SanKakU1 votes

I'm not taking you seriously, considering you just started playing this season and you only have 5 games in the last 30 days.

I got temporary banned so my honor stats reset. I've been playing since beta. Not the entire time of course, which is why I didn't bother with ranked until this season.

The volley change is because it felt buggy when you'd be perfectly hidden behind your creeps, yet still get hit by volley. I agree it's a nerf, but it's a nerf that feels better to play against, so I support it.

Honestly, I think the biggest nerf to Ashe is the loss of her ability to spike someone w/ crit (and do so semi-reliably with her old passive). Ashe will be the poster child for why you can't simply turn crit into an averaged-out dps increase - it's a ton weaker when you do.

I am not sure about all of that but the concept of nerfing volley isn't bad, it's just that they nerfed it so hard it might as well have been deleted.

My impression is that you overestimate how much the volley nerf hurts her

It allowed her to attack from a pretty good range. Now all she has is her ultimate for long range attacks. Volley only hits the unit standing closest to her. If they are standing right next to you, they aren't trying to get away so it's just one shot to them and nothing to anything else, might as well have just kept on attacking.

If I was just referring to units like Lee Sin jumping on her and her volley being rendered useless, that would be one thing, but fact of the matter is the unit blocking the volley might as well just be a minion.

after she has a decent amount of crit she scales incredibly with attack speed, since she can put out more volleys during the buff duration.

Don't get why you think volley's cooldown scales with attack speed like Shyvana's skill.

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