Is Riot trying too hard to make the few armor-based tanks in the game OP?

SanKakU··9 votes·783 views

Taric can be a pretty good counter to an armor-based tank. Granted, he doesn't reduce their armor by a percentage, but the armor he does reduce really cuts into their damage. But, he's getting remade and not only will he not provide bonus AP and AD in an area upon activation, but also will lose his armor shred. Meaning two significant abilities used to combat the tanks will go out the window.

To me, the Taric changes seem like a nerf, but I guess it's a buff against a heavy aoe Mage like Katarina. Of course, he could already stun her to take her out of her ultimate, so I'm not sure why he needs to be 'stronger' against her for example.

Meanwhile, Kayle is getting her percentage armor shred removed in the PBE...?

So now you can't even pick Kayle against Rammus/Malphite? Are tanks really so weak that you have to wreck the supports? I thought tanks are a bit overpowered if you ask me. I rarely lose with Rammus or Malphite. Honestly, they are a little boring with how strong they are. Why make them even stronger by removing their counters?

If you think a champion like Zac is underperforming as a tank, has it ever occurred to you that he is actually not a tank, but a mage? His AP ratios are pretty darn good. Why don't you make his spells scale with MR and armor instead of with AP? Then he'd be a tank! Right now, that stuff just benefits his basic ability, which isn't a reliable stat sink if you ask me since it has a huge cooldown and even if you live through it, you'll probably die immediately anyway. So I don't get what the point of his basic is anyway. I think even if you switch the damage scaling on all his abilities to defense stuff his basic would still need a buff.

And I don't think Zac is the only champ like this that isn't a real tank. Looking at Cho'gath(support), Blitzcrank(assassin), and Alistar(fighter). So are these the tanks that are 'too weak' and you're trying to make them stronger? So by removing counters to the tanks, you're making the actual tanks like Rammus and Malphite more and more powerful, don't you realize this? Why not just put forth the effort to fix the 'weak tanks' and make them real tanks instead of like this Zac for example that is a mage and not a tank.

10 Comments

Elwe The Jungler10 votes

Are you serious? Like.... item 3071 item 3142 item 3036 item 3147 that shit hurts when you're Malphite just so you know lol

Niaphim2 votes

Thank God something still counters this AD meta.

FantasySniper1 votes

They're planning on removing armour dependency, which is why they're removing armour counters as we speak.

Hopefully they plan on fixing this AD over-saturation before they follow up on that.

VentusDragoon1 votes

Zac is definitely NOT a mage. He's a health tank, if you're building lots of armor you're doing it wrong.

item 3742 item 3022 item 3083 item 3053 item 3065 item 3111 -->item 2138 All day every day. As Zac your goal is to get as MASSIVE AS POSSIBLE by building tons of health.

By your definition, everyone that isn't an armor-based tank isn't a real tank. That means that...

Alistar Amumu Blitzcrank Chogath DrMundo Galio Garen Maokai Nautilus Poppy Sejuani Shen Singed Sion Skarner TahmKench Trundle Volibear and Zac are all not tanks.

Our tank pool is pretty sad then.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Zac is definitely NOT a mage. He's a health tank, if you're building lots of armor you're doing it wrong.

item 3742 item 3022 item 3083 item 3053 item 3065 item 3111 -->item 2138 All day every day. As Zac your goal is to get as MASSIVE AS POSSIBLE by building tons of health.

By your definition, everyone that isn't an armor-based tank isn't a real tank. That means that...

Alistar Amumu Blitzcrank Chogath DrMundo Galio Garen Maokai Nautilus Poppy Sejuani Shen Singed Sion Skarner TahmKench Trundle Volibear and Zac are all not tanks.

Our tank pool is pretty sad then.

To be fair, Armor is probably one of the better stats right now. Mainly as a result of the powerful AD's that are currently in the meta. Not to mention that Armor also cuts damage from towers. (contemplate this the next time you get dove.)

Also, even for a health stacker, I would probably go Rylie's over Frozen Mallet on Zac. The secondary stats would synergize way better.

[{quoted}](name=Elwe The Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WukUouFx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-06T08:34:14.979+0000)

Are you serious? Like.... item 3071 item 3142 item 3036 item 3147 that shit hurts when you're Malphite just so you know lol

are you talking all those items at once? if so, I would like to know what champions can actually get away with building that.

But that's one of the problems though. Tank Shred itemization has becomes so specialized that people really don't want to build for it. (LW isn't even a core item in some ADC builds anymore.)

SanKakU1 votes

{quoted}

Zac is definitely NOT a mage. He's a health tank, if you're building lots of armor you're doing it wrong.

... Eh, I've tried going full health, tried putting on lots of armor/MR, none of that works. Only going AP does. ...

{quoted}

To be fair, Armor is probably one of the better stats right now. Mainly as a result of the powerful AD's that are currently in the meta. Not to mention that Armor also cuts damage from towers. (contemplate this the next time you get dove.)

Also, even for a health stacker, I would probably go Rylie's over Frozen Mallet on Zac. The secondary stats would synergize way better.

Well, I mean yeah, you go AP on Zac because it's what's good on him. I've tried health build(rather than focus on armor) and it's very weak on him. That guy has a wrong impression of my experimentation. I'm not only referring to armor scaling when I'm looking at tanks. Health scaling and MR scaling are also important. The point is that Zac does scale with all 3, it's just that the scaling is pathetic compared to his AP scaling and they might as well remove the AP scaling and turn that damage you'd get from AP items into damage with the defensive stats items.

Spoofghoul1 votes

ad assassins can build all 4 of those

hell even just LDR + the mastery makes half your armor useless

also most tank deal magic damage lots of adc buying item 3139 and then also get item 3072 and warlords for a whopping 30-50% lifesteal

no tank can duel them hell nothing can duel vs heavy crits every other attack with that much lifesteal.

anything short of instant burst and they heal for 200-700 per auto attack its pretty damn bonkers

Ad's have it real good these days meanwhile most tank itemization sucks and with tank itemization i mean items like item 3110 item 3075 item 3143

so now we only see high base damage bruisertanks like ekko with shit like item 3025 item 3742 item 3068 item 3001

and thats a problem too

Zane Zephyr1 votes

That's a standard talon/zed build

WoonStruck1 votes

The reason they're encouraging armor tanks (read: not nerfing the shit out of them) is because they probably want the meta to naturally shift away from AD. They don't want to admit they put WAY too much power into AD itemization, just like they don't want to admit that Solo Queue needs to be re-implemented.

Notice the love taps on ADC itemization, meanwhile juggernaut, tank, AP items, etc, get really heavy-handed nerfs generally. Just look at that 20% cut to IBG's damage.

AlwaysByMySide1 votes

There are actually people in this thread who don't think we're in a tank meta, lolololol.

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