Please don't rework Varus

SanKakU·Nov 30, 2017·10 votes·12,553 views

He's been my favorite Marksman since he became a champion. Don't do it, Riot!

Change his lore, change his looks for all I care, but don't give him a gameplay update! Please... I hate it when you guys delete a champ for good no reason and replace it with another champ that isn't even any better. Granted, you don't do it all the time, but you do it often enough to make me very, very afraid of a Varus rework. Especially since he's been in my top 5 favorite champs as a fill main basically forever.

47 Comments

RiotMeddlerNov 30, 201713 votes

We don't have any plans for a Varus rework.

At some point there are some small gameplay tweaks I'd like to make. They're at the level of shifting a bit of power around and adding one additional effect to his kit though, not any major changes to how Varus plays. Also unlikely to happen for a while (hopefully sometime next year?).

PennsNov 30, 20173 votes

should happen after the fizz rework imo [sg-ezreal]

SpideraxeNov 30, 20172 votes

Since you were his OG designer, how do you personally feel about his new stuff

RiotMeddlerDec 1, 201723 votes

I really like it overall. I like that Valmar/Kai have a more fleshed out relationship with each other and connection to the wider world. I also think the twist on the normal Darkin weapon versus human power struggle of three instead of two's a nice touch, in particular because it allows us to tell more interesting and distinct stories with Varus going forwards.

I do somewhat miss the tragedy of Varus choosing duty over family, realizing he'd made the wrong choice, and giving in to anger/evil. That was a pretty completed story arc though, with an inevitable 'now the Darkin takes over and Varus is just gone' bit left (dude had nothing to live for). I think we gain quite a bit more narrative wise than we lose as a result, in particular the potential for future storytelling.

QuephaDec 1, 201724 votes

{quoted}

the potential for future storytelling.

This same excuse was used for rewriting Trundle's lore in 2013.

How many Trundle stories have been told since 2013?

It's a cop-out and Riot has demonstrated they aren't going to follow through on it and are just deleting characters due to their own whims.

XenethDec 1, 20174 votes

Before we try to take Riot to task for not putting out even more lore or trying to wrap up any of these hanging arcs they're leaving in their wake, (because believe me, I'm also frustrated with the pace and lack of focus) I think it's important to zoom out and look at the big picture; Runeterra is becoming more than the setting of LoL, it's becoming an IP.

If they want to do anything meaningful like set another genre of game in this universe, they're going to have to "seed" it with even more unresolved stuff than there already is. I want a lot more lore development too, but is a MOBA or the Universe website REALLY the best place to wrap up the whole Freljordian civil war, or would you rather play it out Banner Saga style as a strategy game?

QuephaDec 1, 20172 votes

Use other characters that happen to have unresolved storylines. Use new characters that were created with unresolved storylines. Maybe make some new characters specifically for the purposes of these secondary products.

And if you are going to change an old character, change as little as possible to serve the needs. In the Rolling Stone interview you have Rioters talking about an element of Varus's lore as not absolutely necessary for Varus so they threw it out. It should be the other way around, "Is it absolutely necessary that we have to change this element for the sake of the game? No? Then we should leave it as-is."

If Riot has new ideas for a new story, then it should be associated with a new character.

DecritDec 2, 20171 votes

In all honesty, old Trundle was a character closed into himself. His story was done, his race was shrugged off in order to have a proper IP ( i would not be surprised to see trolls as some odd form of Vastayans) and had zero connection to the rest of the world as a character, nor his tribe did.

They are at fault for not doing much stuff on him, but at least he and his race has a part on the world. Trolls now appear in some stories too, like Braum and Ryze, and they could not or would have been dispersive if Trundle was still the leaper troll.

QuephaDec 2, 20171 votes

They could have written the old Trundle story into the world while maintaining most of what made the old Trundle who he was.

And honestly, even if he was left in that state where he was not really part of the rest of the story, that would be better than what actually happened to him.

xelakerDec 3, 20171 votes

beat me to it.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 1, 20171 votes

I like that Valmar/Kai have a more fleshed out relationship with each other and connection to the wider world.

Nice meme.

Gameplay wise, is it planned to bring some "Darkish" power in his kit ??? Or better, bring back the spell caster (to compet with Ez).

Lord Phazanor Dec 1, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I really like it overall. I like that Valmar/Kai have a more fleshed out relationship with each other and connection to the wider world. I also think the twist on the normal Darkin weapon versus human power struggle of three instead of two's a nice touch, in particular because it allows us to tell more interesting and distinct stories with Varus going forwards.

I do somewhat miss the tragedy of Varus choosing duty over family, realizing he'd made the wrong choice, and giving in to anger/evil. That was a pretty completed story arc though, with an inevitable 'now the Darkin takes over and Varus is just gone' bit left (dude had nothing to live for). I think we gain quite a bit more narrative wise than we lose as a result, in particular the potential for future storytelling.

Sorry, but that's wrong. In 5 minutes I can come up with a solution. Pretty sure the team could too.
Something like "Varus finally accepted the Darkin's deal: a revenge in exchange for the Darkin's delivrance. But with time, the Darkin came to understand how human feelings worked, he understood what drove Varus mad." The story officially ends here, but there is a possibility of them making peace, since their goals aren't this separate one from another. Maybe the Darkin is okay with killing only Noxians for eternity. Maybe they both realize that killing isn't the solution? Maybe in the end, the Darkin still fully consumes Varus because even though he "liked" him (as much as a Darkin can like), he wasn't attached enough to not take his part of the deal.

This litterally took me less than 5 minutes, and a story built upon that (with the talent of a true narrative team, I'm just a randumb that doesn't even speak english correctly) would have pleased everyone. Why? Because it didn't change core things, it just added things.
Why didn't the narrative team do that kind of work instead of an (almost) full retcon?

NosferousDec 1, 20173 votes

I keep seeing "Core" things that were changed about Varus, but other than confirming he is in-fact Darkin, what "Core" things changed, sounds to me like someone might just be hiding what they truly feel behind excuses used by the masses, but let's be real you're mad he's gay....

KeyrtynDec 2, 20171 votes

basically this actually, everyone just assumed varus was a single personification, as well as was heterosexual, as they also assume on so many other characters, but there was nothing in the original that said varus was straight or was a single entity. it was wide open, similar to lots of other characters in this game.

varus is gay for himself, and im ok with that, cause its kinda funny.

Lord Phazanor Dec 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I keep seeing "Core" things that were changed about Varus, but other than confirming he is in-fact Darkin, what "Core" things changed, sounds to me like someone might just be hiding what they truly feel behind excuses used by the masses, but let's be real you're mad he's gay....

You really didn't get the point.
Want me to explain it to you or you're just trolling and don't care?

OleandervineDec 1, 20171 votes

Will Varus get a new VO to match his now 3 voices in his head?

Linna ExcelDec 2, 20171 votes

That was a pretty completed story arc though

Thank you for reminding me of something to complain to Reav3/the lore team about. It seems like riot retconns lore when there's nothing left to tell, but don't seem to understand that not all stories have to be an ongoing soap opera. It's fine if one ends. I'd argue that a story is better if it ends instead of gets dragged out into a 2 season filler arc while we wait for the manga to catch up for what'll end up being a disappointing ending anyways.

Some stories don't need a new take, or a reboot, or whatever.

You know, I've heard that the best to end a story is at a point where the reader is still wanting a little bit more. I kind of agree with that. I wish leona's story had ended instead of being turned into whatever riot was thinking...

of...

OH CRAP LEONA AND DIANA ARE SERVANTS OF DORMANT RIVAL DARKIN YOU BLOODY HACKS. I'm right aren't I? That demon that possessed leona was a darkin wasn't it? That's why she's been reworked to a brutal executioner instead of a protector.

Well this sucks.

RIP Leona RIP Diana

KeyrtynDec 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUHqsRdg,comment-id=0001000100000005,timestamp=2017-12-02T06:44:39.500+0000)

Thank you for reminding me of something to complain to Reav3/the lore team about. It seems like riot retconns lore when there's nothing left to tell, but don't seem to understand that not all stories have to be an ongoing soap opera. It's fine if one ends. I'd argue that a story is better if it ends instead of gets dragged out into a 2 season filler arc while we wait for the manga to catch up for what'll end up being a disappointing ending anyways.

Some stories don't need a new take, or a reboot, or whatever.

You know, I've heard that the best to end a story is at a point where the reader is still wanting a little bit more. I kind of agree with that. I wish leona's story had ended instead of being turned into whatever riot was thinking...

of...

OH CRAP LEONA AND DIANA ARE SERVANTS OF DORMANT RIVAL DARKIN YOU BLOODY HACKS. I'm right aren't I? That demon that possessed leona was a darkin wasn't it? That's why she's been reworked to a brutal executioner instead of a protector.

Well this sucks.

RIP RIP

anivia has the same jewel mark on her head as varus, is she a darkin too?

TerozuDec 4, 20171 votes

I honestly find the second comic weirdly hard to follow. In particular the order of dialogue. Its kind of jumbled, but I guess that's the point lol.

IDarkIFireDec 8, 20171 votes

This thing with the "completed story arc" is getting kind of old... Do take a look at this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/Rmx1zYIW-since-both-users-and-rioters-have-been-claiming-that-varus-old-lore-was-complete-or-a-dead-end

Even amateur writers can work with that so called "dead end" as you try to make his old lore to be... Of cource you can say you have the potential for future storytelling - you just deleted a whole champion and made up something brand new - essentially you can tell any story you want if you just scrub the black board clean... Nothing has been expanded or enriched by the new story itsself, but by the clean slate you can draw with any character...

Ultra Rapid FyreNov 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

We don't have any plans for a Varus rework.

At some point there are some small gameplay tweaks I'd like to make. They're at the level of shifting a bit of power around and adding one additional effect to his kit though, not any major changes to how Varus plays. Also unlikely to happen for a while (hopefully sometime next year?).

still waiting on that aatrox rework thats been talked about for 2 years now

CarnicoreDec 2, 20171 votes

Currently it's planned to come out after the Irelia rework, lol.

DCYOUNG888Nov 30, 20172 votes

So would the change be on a similar scale like what happened to him in patch 6.24?

EDIT: Also welcome back Meddler.

RiotMeddlerDec 1, 20175 votes

A bit larger, but around that point yeah.

And thanks!

DCYOUNG888Dec 1, 20172 votes

Thank you. Are there no quick gameplay thoughts for today or this week then?

RiotMeddlerDec 2, 20174 votes

None this week sorry, had too much stuff I had to catch up on once I got back to work. Will be back to normal next week.

DCYOUNG888Dec 2, 20171 votes

Thank you. Quick question, what are your thoughts on Teemo Teemo right now? I noticed he's gotten significantly stronger this preseason with the summon aery rune making his poke very strong against most champs in the top lane.

JabalorNov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

We don't have any plans for a Varus rework.

At some point there are some small gameplay tweaks I'd like to make. They're at the level of shifting a bit of power around and adding one additional effect to his kit though, not any major changes to how Varus plays. Also unlikely to happen for a while (hopefully sometime next year?).

What about Renekton?

Nick Da ChipNov 30, 20172 votes

One quick question, one that my heart yearns to know from both fear and excitement, will you be keeping his AP playstyle intact with your changes? It is certainly my favorite way to play league so I am quite concerned.

RiotMeddlerDec 1, 20178 votes

Changes would leave the AP play intact.

Ultra Rapid FyreDec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Changes would leave the AP play intact.

so you can keep varus's ap play in tact... but you didnt keep aatrox's ap play in tact... thats cute...

zecastarNov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

We don't have any plans for a Varus rework.

At some point there are some small gameplay tweaks I'd like to make. They're at the level of shifting a bit of power around and adding one additional effect to his kit though, not any major changes to how Varus plays. Also unlikely to happen for a while (hopefully sometime next year?).

I'm always terrified my favorite champions will get reworked. I remember what you guys did to my AP Kog - ruined the only role I played the champ in. Although, maybe he works better now than last season. Ultimate Hat sounds nice.

To be fair, I thought the Eve, WW and Sion reworks were amazing. I'd hate to see Mundo suck as a duelist though or not have a spammable % HP skillshot.

PhDs NutsNov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

adding one additional effect to his kit

Is it 'Grounded' on his E? Tell me it's 'Grounded' on his E. I've been saying this since the Cass update.

La BelloNov 30, 20171 votes

you could probably swap his innate Blighted quiver passive with his E passive and then make E a activatable steroid that does something cool like

splitting his shots ala Runaans
giving his basic attacks a "piercing" effect that allows you to damage lined up targets same as Xayah/Twitch.
allowing auto attacks to shatter on impact dealing damage in a cone directly behind the original target.
Massively increases attack speed at the cost of both movement speed AND attack range.

Alternatively if you dont want to "overload" players by adding an extra active skill to his kit you could simply give him a more synergistic passive like what you did with Singed.

SanKakUNov 30, 20171 votes

Not sure what you mean by shifting power around but as long as it's number tweaking shouldn't be an issue. I've seen stuff like removing Kha'Zix AP scaling but leaving it on half of one of his abilities...when it should be made AD so AP scaling items don't feel wasteful...of course, adding some hybrid damage items that doesn't revolve around attack speed would help with that. Not that this is a Kha'Zix thread, just using him as an example of tweaks that I haven't thought to be 100 percent appropriate.

HalcyonDwellerNov 30, 20172 votes

Is the additional effect giving him a third basic ability and is the power shift moving his blight to his passive?

Edited for clarity

L RayquazaDec 1, 20171 votes

I have a question about this lore update, is Varus going to be getting a new VO soon? It would be weird to add these two new characters being an essential part of the mental trio and they are just there in the text but we never hear them in game, champs have gotten so much more VO since way back in Season two when he was released and this would be an amazing opportunity to flesh him (them?) out more in game

LightWolf73Dec 1, 20171 votes

Any plans on a new voice over? It's really poor atm and new lines with them 3 talking inside Varus' head would be really cool

LiwesDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

We don't have any plans for a Varus rework.

At some point there are some small gameplay tweaks I'd like to make. They're at the level of shifting a bit of power around and adding one additional effect to his kit though, not any major changes to how Varus plays. Also unlikely to happen for a while (hopefully sometime next year?).

Any Meddler Thoughts on horizon today? ^^

Linna ExcelDec 2, 20171 votes

As long as the tweaks hurt ARAM bots, I approve.

Pierce The VealDec 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

We don't have any plans for a Varus rework.

At some point there are some small gameplay tweaks I'd like to make. They're at the level of shifting a bit of power around and adding one additional effect to his kit though, not any major changes to how Varus plays. Also unlikely to happen for a while (hopefully sometime next year?).

Ooh this is exactly what you said with all the champs you ruined. Neat.

PhantomGGNov 30, 20172 votes

to this day, the graves rework has me saddened.

Lunar LunacyNov 30, 20171 votes

I like varus and his kit, I think he is a pretty healthy champion for the most part and I hardly ever play him. I'm interested in whatever changes may come along, so long as they don't change his core gameplay

SageaceDec 1, 20171 votes

I would prefer that they do give Varus a kit rework, but if anything, it would be a small rework. Mainly replacing his Innate with his W, and giving his W a new idea. The rest of his kit is REALLY good and fun.

YoureOnPhyreDec 4, 20171 votes

I seriously dislike the story rework... It feels like a bad DC reboot. It also doesn't seem to fit with anything we've previously seen with Darkin. I mean, it seems like Varus is now a Schizophrenic version of Frankenstein's monster being controlled by his bow.

ThrashHookRsDec 11, 20171 votes

I believe Varus need a small update. He is one of the few champions who can have many different build and his game play isn't much certain. You can either invest in your AA by buying Guinshoos, Ruanans etc or Focus on poking with Q, by building lethality. It would be a nice idea to have a lifesteal mechanic like most darkins.

Also, in my opinion it would be very nice if you changed his Voice lines, in order to show the inner conversation between Valmar, Kai and the Darkin.