PSA: Janna AP Mid is very strong right now. (Likely downvoted to oblivion, also long)

dakota saturn··2 votes·1,132 views

This post will contain an unpopular opinion. If you choose to not read it, that's fine, but I ask that you think critically and don't just tote "NO DMG LAWL BAD BUILD" before commenting. Thanks

I've played Janna as a Mage since season 1, all through her massive changes and nerfs over the years. Right now, Janna is a very strong ap mid, and I'd argue she's stronger now than she's ever been, and certainly as strong or stronger than typical meta mids. There are many matches where she can come out ahead, and very few where she's at a disadvantage. Due to her kit's dual nature of support and damage, she mostly fits into the same type of teamcomp as Karma or Lulu mid; teams where you already will have a secondary AP dmg source. Such as, Annie bot, fiddle jungle, rumble/vlad top, etc etc. But you're not limited only to this type of teamcomp; even with a full AD team, that's 4 potential targets for your +100 AD Buff, and even with armor stacking, that's going to hurt a lot.

Due to the extreme range and power on her Q, Janna can easily boast the highest cs on both teams, almost guaranteeing a 45% CDR, 500 AP build with multiple support items if desired. Why is this useful? Late game, you can constantly shield your carries for 600+ HP and give them a +100 AD bonus. You can aoe heal for thousands of combined damage, putting even Soraka to shame with how game changing your ult is. This can be far more impactful than a simple aoe nuke. Most AP Mages have an element of risk where they can fall behind from a bad lane matchup and have their damage and usefulness suffer bigtime.

One of the best parts of AP Janna mid is that she's almost impossible to shut down. Due to her kit containing multiple forms of protection, mobility, and disengages, she excells against Assassins, such as Fizz Leblanc Zed Akali Pantheon . These champs require early kills to start their snowball, and Janna mid is one of the best at denying this. She can instantly interrupt dashes, shield from poke, and recover from combo's easily while pushing relentlessly so they can't roam, while able to get every cs in lane.

Other champions she will excel against include skillshot reliant champions such as Ahri Brand Cassiopeia Kennen Morgana Syndra Ziggs Zyra - they will struggle to land a single skill on you since you move faster than any other champion, and can fly over minions. Since Janna has a high-damaging point and click nuke with a slow, a typical combo is simply bait a skillshot and watch it miss, fly through the wave, W, quick Q knockup to prevent retaliation, then auto enhanced with shield for a Thunderlord proc. Most champs without a self heal won't be able to take this on a sustained basis, and won't be able to do anything back to you since you can shield their harass.

Champions where Janna struggles would be champs with point and click nukes/stuns, such as Annie Lissandra . These champs are dealt with by simply ignoring them and focusing on farm and roaming. Her Q outranges these champions' danger zones. Janna is also a great ganker due to her speed & disables, so even in a subpar matchup, she still has options.

The only exception where Janna will clearly be at a disadvantage is Yasuo because he can stop Janna from farming at all, and can shield all of her harass. Fortunately, most of the community agrees with how annoying and repressive his kit is, and he's the most banned champion, making Janna mid a very safe pick. Besides him, there aren't any champions I can think of where Janna can't excel.

Some good items to build on Mid Janna include: item 3174 item 3060 item 3027 item 3050 item 3285 item 3089 item 3040 item 3504 - a good rule of thumb is to calculate 45% CDR using supportive items (Zeke/Grail/Censer), runes/masteries/boots of lucidity, and then stack pure AP for the rest. Janna typically doesn't need any defensive items because she can do her thing from so far back, she's rarely in danger. In teamfights later in the game, Janna is mostly played as a typical support, and sticks with the ADC - the difference is that her spells are obscenely strong with AP behind them, meaning your ADC can stay alive for quite a long time, far outdamaging the output of most typical mage mids, along with huge objective control.

I'll be happy to write a full guide for this if the community wishes. Just wanted to see if anyone has any interest at all. People in ranked games have been pretty cool with my pick - occasionally there's the one jerk who thinks the game is automatically over because of Janna Mid, but those are very few and far between, and those are the people I made this post for. Almost all of the Teamwork honors I've gotten this season have been from people impressed with Mid Janna.

16 Comments

disregardable1 votes

Let's assume the mid laner, realizing he can't kill you and not getting any ganks, goes bot and gets a double kill. How does Janna mid recover from that very common situation?

dakota saturn2 votes

A few things - if they leave lane and roam, you should be pinging and have wards up to prevent gank attempts. Janna has flexibility with her 2nd Summoner spell and can take Teleport just for this reason, I do this if they have a roaming mid like TF or Taliyah. Also, if they leave lane you should be pushing to turret with your Q and forcing them to lose farm, putting them far behind if they don't have a successful gank.

If your team refuses to listen and feeds them, your enemy laner can be 10/0 against you and still most can't touch you because of your kit and can't stop you from farming and having a good mid/late game. Think about how unmovable Morgana mid is, and multiply that by 10. Janna is nearly ungankable and farms with impunity.

Unless it's a fed Annie who can flash tibbers on you, most mids, even when fed, can't do anything to stop you. If it is something like Annie, just get whatever CS you can, roam when you can, and don't give her any kills, just like any other mid would do.

Plus, when you pick Janna mid, people tend to think it was due to a failed trade, or someone's trolling, etc.. People don't tend to play at their fullest when they think they're against a 'joke pick', so you can use mindgames to your advantage as well (i.e. pretend to be pissed at your team in allchat, lie and say it was a failed trade, etc)

The Deckowner1 votes
  1. Why play Janna mid, when Karma and Lulu can do basically the same thing better?
  2. How do you waveclear against siege?
  3. Janna's aa is literally worse than Ksrthus' in terms of csing.

Maybe you are true about the part of not possible to shut down, but why do I need to shut down a Janna? she isn't game changing even when she is fed. All I need to do is shove in the wave freely since Janna's jungler wouldn't gank such a lane, go roam freely because Janna can't waveclear, get a double.kill bot then take tower as well as drag, come back with my bot lane and crush Janna and her tower.

Saying a support can survive mid lane doesn't mean anything, because surviving the lane doesn't mean anything, because you are not going to have impact on the map.

dakota saturn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gwW9WY42,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-23T22:38:23.825+0000)

  1. Why play Janna mid, when Karma and Lulu can do basically the same thing better?

  2. How do you waveclear against siege?

  3. Janna's aa is literally worse than Ksrthus' in terms of csing.

Maybe you are true about the part of not possible to shut down, but why do I need to shut down a Janna? she isn't game changing even when she is fed. All I need to do is shove in the wave freely since Janna's jungler wouldn't gank such a lane, go roam freely because Janna can't waveclear, get a double.kill bot then take tower as well as drag, come back with my bot lane and crush Janna and her tower.

Saying a support can survive mid lane doesn't mean anything, because surviving the lane doesn't mean anything, because you are not going to have impact on the map.

  1. Janna offers a heal and a massive AD buff. She's far better at Lulu/Karma at keeping the ADC alive, and is one of the best pushers and counter pushers. Lulu/Karma are poke mages mostly - they do have support abilities but not as good as Janna's. They can push, but not as well as Janna, or as safely. She's great for defending against Heimer - not only does she outpush him, but she can aim her tornados at both the wave and his turrets to hurt him even more. Having AP behind her abilities makes her much more impactful and can keep the entire team going forever during seiges. The heal from Athene's adds up quite a bit, as well.

  2. Janna excels at waveclearing, not sure why you think she's weak at it - 2 tornados should clear any wave, and the CD still ticks while your Q is charging (This was a buff done not too long ago, which made her such a good mid right now). With 45% CDR, you can basically spam high-powered tornado's nonstop. WIth Luden's Echo, the caster minions can be oneshot with medium AP.

  3. This used to be the case where she had an awful animation. They've since changed it to be more intune with other AP mids. It's not as good as LeBlanc's animation, but it's good enough that I rarely miss a CS because of the delay.

Basically, if you underestimate a Janna and let her farm and do whatever she wants all game, she'll likely roam mid-game, get her team very fed, and be the force behind nonstop seiges and will be very difficult to deal with. If you let a Janna farm 500AP, you -will- regret it in teamfights later when you can't do anything to any of her team, and even if you do, she will ult and reset all of the damage.

Have you ever seen an AP Janna in your games before? A lot of this sounds like conjecture and theorizing, rather than actually seeing one do their thing.

The Deckowner1 votes

Wait....WTF? Are you trolling or what? Do you actually believe what you said was true? or were you.just joking?

dakota saturn1 votes

I dunno, I've offered many examples, used logic, and explained my stance as well as I could. Sucks when the replies are less than a sentence and offer no further discussion, and it's clear the other person didn't read any of the post.

Oh well.

If you would explain where exactly you have issue with anything I said, that would be one thing.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

full ap janna mid has been done before... its a niche pick at best.

dakota saturn1 votes

Again - when have you actually seen one in your own game? You're doing exactly what I said in the pretext of "LAWL WONT WORK DOWNVOTE LAWLWALWLAL" without doing any kind of critical thinking, or finding errors in my argument, or any kind of intelligent discussion, or anything at all.

I'm not trying to sound jerkish, but why is this community so incredibly difficult to convince of -anything- that hasn't already been done 500,000 times? Janna herself was considered a trash pick in season 1 because she 'didn't do damage waste of a slot lawl'. Evelynn in season 1 with her stun was seen as a trash pick because 'lawl shes worse than twitch/shaco because she's melee her stun is useless lawl'. LeBlanc was a trash pick that no one thought could be played competitively, even with her silence until Faker played her in LCS. These are all champions I've played extensively since their creation. When I play Janna, I play her mid or top exclusively.

Please think critically and don't parrot what everyone says - the majority can be, and frequently is, wrong. Mid lane doesn't have to be '50,000 burst dmg or completely useless waste of slot lawlawlawlawll'. If you have a decent teamcomp, a lot of strategies can work.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i have also seen full ad janna top before. anything can work from time to time for it to be the norm and become meta is another thing... and i never said it wouldnt or couldnt work... i stated " full ap janna mid has been done before.... its a niche pick at best "

PermabannedGaren1 votes

Janna's Q, when charged up for three seconds, does 265+65% of her AP in magic damage.

Let's compare this to some other fairly meta mid laners.

Viktor's E once he upgrades it will do 410+120% of his AP in magic damage. So Viktor is much better at pushing than Janna is.

Ahri's Q alone does 270+70% of her AP in mixed damage. Like with Viktor, she doesn't have to charge her main wave clear ability for three seconds.

Lux's E is marginally worse at 240+60% of her AP, but she is known to be bad at clearing waves early on and once more doesn't have to charge it for three seconds.

Syndra's Q does 230+75% AP, so somewhat worse base damage but better scaling. Also much lower cooldown, mana cost, and delay.

Basically the point I'm getting to here is that Janna's wave clear isn't good. In fact, it's actually pretty fucking bad. She has to hold her Q for the entire three seconds only to barely reach what some mages can do and fall short of what others can do. Furthermore, this is her only waveclear ability. Syndra can assist with her W and E and Ahri with her W.

Sorry, but the very idea that Janna can has great waveclear as an AP mid laner is frankly laughable. Numerically it's total bullshit. There is no debate against this. Her Q is slow, doesn't deal much damage, has a somewhat long cooldown, and a fucking enormous mana cost, though that's admittedly less of an issue due to Janna's own large mana pool and decent mana regen.

I doubt Janna's effectiveness as an AP mid laner, but I won't deny that it's possible that she could work as a utility mid. In terms of wave clear though? She's awful. Sorry.

Dracocrash2 votes

You cant define janna's effectiveness with her waveclear. She also offers utility which other mages u stated cannot offer.

dakota saturn1 votes

Also one thing Janna has that the other mages don't is enormous range. Ahri/Syndra/Brand, etc all have to get relatively close to wave clear, opening them up for a LB/Talon to jump over the wave and combo them. Also if Brand/Syndra are pushing a wave and get caught, they will probably get killed. Janna can easily get away from 2-3 people chasing her down, even if she's way pushed up and autoing the turret, giving her team the opportunity to pursue other objectives.

Until Janna has a lot of AP and Luden's, she won't oneshot the wave, that is true, BUT she can simply charge 2 tornados in quick succession, and even in a push can lay down the tornados way before the wave hits the tower. Along with her shield working on turrets, and having 600+ HP, she is excellent at countering a push.

Even most typical mages can't oneshot a wave unless they're very fed.

Dracocrash1 votes

I'm going to try this out and if i feed im blaming you x3

dakota saturn1 votes

There's no reason you should outright feed if your mechanics are decent. Janna is one of the most difficult champions to kill.

Dracocrash1 votes

itt was a jokeee

dakota saturn1 votes

ofc it was ;]

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