Rammus W

Râmmus Bot·May 23, 2017·6 votes·1,033 views

So the rammus changes were really good in my opinion. But i feel the 60% movement speed reduction on W is really really bad. It makes sense to add something like that to limit him, but the only time it can be used is in team fights but you cant actually do anything besides hope the enemy team is hitting you just to hit you. You cant actually keep up with anyone at all so your W is never up for longer than your taunt. After taunt is gone the enemy can just kinda kite you or walk away and you cant do anything about it because you have 240 movement speed. I don't know how to really explain it but that much of a movement speed reduction and he has no presence. The best way to counter him was with cc, now thats even more true i guess? see rammus in W? just hit him with another slow and watch him turn into a slug

19 Comments

Truly not GayMay 23, 20172 votes

I have no problem with the slow. My problem is that it is for the entire time. I think it should decay to nothing over 3 seconds. That makes it so you can have it up when you taunt someone and after the taunt is done you can keep it up and still move.

TerricusMay 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Truly not Gay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gqvKiBR8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-23T20:02:22.325+0000)

I have no problem with the slow. My problem is that it is for the entire time. I think it should decay to nothing over 3 seconds. That makes it so you can have it up when you taunt someone and after the taunt is done you can keep it up and still move.

This is an interesting idea. In fact, perhaps Riot should have added the slow to his taunt in a decaying form, and not his W.

The problem is that any ability like W should have some way you worry about when you use it. Cooldown timing is even less of a concern now than before, and so what tradeoff-worry can be added to the ability other than a big slow?

ElsewiseMay 23, 20172 votes

Had an Urgot literally halve my armor WITH W UP when he landed his E and Black Cleaver. Made me cry.

Shuyin178May 23, 20172 votes

I can understand giving him a slow, but a 60% self slow is stupid. Reduce that down to 20% at least Riot or scaling down with level 60/50/40/30/20%.

VoraciousXMay 24, 20172 votes

I've played Rammus a couple of times since the rework and I feel like everyone's farming faster than I am, and the enemy team is always playing under their tower. The times I do get a good gank off usually end well for our team but then when teamfights start breaking out I can't seem to deal any good damage or stick to anyone without a taunt, and then I'm just so easily kiteable it's ridiculous. His Q, W, and E defines him(in my mind), His W is important because without the W you take way too much damage despite building defensively. I feel like the slow should be on the E, personally. His W doesn't feel like it should be a toggle either because considering how slow you are and how weak you are without your W, you're likely not getting out anyways. He's REALLY good in ascension though, lol. Btw for the one who said maxing Q or E is interchangeable because Q speeds you up more and E determines taunt duration, Q doesn't increase your movement speed while in it, it only increases your damage from Q and the 1 second slow. The only reason you're probably gonna wanna max Q is if you go for a damage build and want that Q damage, or for WHATEVER reason the 80% 1 second slow is important for you(don't think it matters tbh since after the knockup you have 0.75 seconds to E them).

TerricusMay 23, 20171 votes

I understand what Riot is going for, but from casual player perspective, the extreme slow initially feels very clunky and seems like it could use more design thought. Ganking feels good/balanced, but in any prolonged fight where you seek to deal damage, chase, or run, you're forced to never use (or immediately deactivate) W unless he can deal a killing blow, which is a HUGE change to Rammus. All of his other changes were basically small, interesting tweaks by comparison.

W was and still is the ability that most defines what Rammus can do for a team comp. Outside of farming monsters/minion waves, it dramatically defines how he chases down and damages targets as well as affecting how enemy champions chase him down. In comparison to before, the difference now, outside of farming monsters/minions, is that W only feels good in extreme team fights where Rammus isn't also trying to R, and that is a VERY RARE circumstance in comparison to the VERY SHORT cooldown on W—his ability that's up the most often is the one he must also use the least?

All in all, I like where Riot is going with Rammus, but I'm skeptical that they've arrived.

TerricusMay 23, 20171 votes

Concerning this quote from Riot: 'Rammus’s playstyle, like his vocabulary, is overly simple: if he can navigate through a fight and Powerball a juicy target, the rest of his abilities are basically no-brainers.'

That's true as far as ability use is concerned, but it completely ignores the zoning and navigational complexities Rammus had. That was the primary way players had to learn to get good with him. You might as well say Blitzcrank, Sona and whole host of other positioning and zone based champions have overly simple ability usage. I hope that wasn't Riot's only concern with Rammus.

StaconaMay 23, 20172 votes

Its so you have a reason to turn off your shield, the cooldown got lowered to 6 seconds same as Anivia ultimate to compensate creating a decision if it is a good time to use it or not and if you should turn it off or not, rather than always yes for turning on and never yes for turning off.

W does not define Rammus at all, Powerball and his Taunt do (I wanted them to rename his taunt to "Okay." and with the period); everything else can be removed and replaced with a new ability and Rammus will still feel like Rammus.

TerricusMay 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Its so you have a reason to turn off your shield, the cooldown got lowered to 6 seconds same as Anivia ultimate to compensate creating a decision if it is a good time to use it or not and if you should turn it off or not, rather than always yes for turning on and never yes for turning off.

W does not define Rammus at all, Powerball and his Taunt do (I wanted them to rename his taunt to "Okay." and with the period); everything else can be removed and replaced with a new ability and Rammus will still feel like Rammus.

Uhh, W is the ability that lets Rammus farm jungle, tank teams, and hurt ADCs, but that doesn't define him 'at all'? Wrong.

Yes, you want a reason to turn W off, but you also want abilities with short cooldowns (the current W almost feels like a toggle) to have plenty of reasons to be used frequently and often, and that currently feels missing from everything I can see.

StaconaMay 23, 20172 votes

It doesn't. You can easily completely rework it and grant an entirely new ability, Rammus will feel like Rammus with a real and interesting ability, and have something that ACTUALLY clears the jungle and still grant a tank steroid.

Râmmus BotMay 23, 20173 votes

As a rammus main with 313k points on him i can say his W is what defines him. with his passive too. There is only one other champion in the game that has a shield like rammus and thats annie.

StaconaMay 23, 20171 votes

You just need to get used to it. It is to give a reason to turn off W and allows Rammus to get buffs like not having a useless ultimate with the slow and more CC with the powerball cooldown reduction. Granted these buffs also nerfed Powerball since interrupts can now stop the powerball i.e. stuns, suppress, silence, knock-backs, knock-ups, etc. while taunts, charms, fears, blinds, darkness, slows, etc still do not stop powerball.

Other buffs allows him to max W last so he can max Q or E first and second (there is a reason to max Q over E and E over Q, but W is no last always rather than always first) so he can increase his mobility with Q max (and more CC for support Rammus) or longer taunts and better ganks with E max (which E max helps jungle rammus out with the bonus attack speed)

Only thing I can potentially see though is that 70% resistance boost may be (probably is) too low for rank 5; could potentially be better if it was 50-70% damage reduction rather than increase resistance, would make Rammus less feast or famine this way (would just be a straight buff for support Rammus) where it becomes stronger if Rammus is behind but a lot weaker if Rammus is ahead (could justify and make the massive self-slow feel more "worth it" too).

Râmmus BotMay 23, 20173 votes

The 60% slow on W makes it not worth using at all without taunt up. Yeah its a reason to not always keep it up but for the duration that you can have it on you may as well not even use it. with W and E the enemy gets maybe 2 or 3 autos off then your useless garbage until your abilities are back up, assuming you have not yet been kited to death. I would be fine with a 20% or 25% slow, or a decaying slow. You also have no escape with rammus or anything to spook the enemy off of you. You have Q but now its a cast that can be stopped, and you cant use W to stop the mass flow of damage. I cant think of any other champion in the game that has a ability with such a bad trade off

StaconaMay 23, 20172 votes

its on such a low cooldown you can use it reactively to mitigate damage

Râmmus BotMay 25, 20172 votes

id rather a longer cooldown than get slowed to oblivion

StaconaMay 25, 20172 votes

And then there is no reason to turn it off, which defeats the purpose of the change

Râmmus BotMay 26, 20172 votes

That's a garbage way of doing it. Taking one of the most kiteable champions in the game and making him even more kiteable? Out side of W he has no self defense. He dies waaaay to fast without W on and he cant move with W on. You can try to Q away but its extremely simple and easy to stop it. It would be the easiest thing ever to force a rammus out of W too. That 60% slow alone has made him one of the easiest champions to actually fight

Râmmus BotMay 26, 20171 votes

In fact to prove my point that they made him worse........ http://champion.gg/champion/Rammus/Jungle

TerricusMay 30, 20171 votes

For Rammus W to require any skill, it needs to have really good uses as well as really bad, and it should be difficult to tell those situations apart. Neither of those criteria currently apply.