Message to the rammus rework team

Râmmus Bot··80 votes·5,255 views

The short: rammus isn't as fun to play, Q is debatable if it needs a fix, W needs move speed nerf taken off or scale down with more points in W. Ult needs to feel more impactful. I don't believe win rate determines if a champion is good or not. So if you comment with something along so lines I'll probably ignore it. Constructive criticism is welcome. If you post your annoyed about the rammus posts just move on. Want I want the developer to see is that when you rework a champion, talk to its fanbase. We know what we want on the championside we care about and what could make them fun and interesting.

Q might be faster but its the worlds easiest thing to hit him out of it. May as well not even use it to engage a enemy team because you will get the tiniest bit of cc and stop in your tracks. Don't try to use it to escape either because i promise you wont make it.

Q) should stay the same as it is now but make the damage scale off of movement speed or a mix of movement speed and ap. And remove the channel. But if the channel is removed maybe reduce the speed or length of travel a tiny bit. Old Q was fine.

W is a utter joke. You don't punish a player for using a champions ability. Want extra defenses? Ok you are now literally a rock. No moving allowed with 60% slow and whatever cc slows roots stuns.etc you take from the enemy team added on to that. Have fun trying to catch up to enemies to use taunt, but its not worth using taunt with out W. Want to move faster? Ok but you are going to become a glass vase.

W) remove the 60% slow. Or even make it a 60% slow that scales down the more points you have in W. Don't punish the player for playing rammus. W is suppose to be his bread and butter.

E is actually a good change but is garbage because it requires you to be in your 60% slow for the refreshed attack speed buff. Which ties into W. The only time you use W is farming jungle or when you taunt a champion and thats for two seconds. if your W is up for longer than your taunt your doing it wrong.

E) keep the same this is actually a good idea. Since you are giving a straight tank attack speed buff on taunt it might be interesting to have the E cooldown a bit longer but reduces per auto attack since his E gives attack speed bonus. Not sure how the balancing would work with the attack speed buff refresh, but its a idea that can be scaled or fixed if it doesnt hold up.

R they nerfed the damage output to champions and made it only good on turrets (which is was good on turrets beforehand). "But it has a stacking slow now silly!" Great. A stacking slow that doesn't really do anything. Its not hard to walk away from rammus. The only time its viable for use is in team fights. Even then it does not do much.

R) revert it. Maybe a longer cooldown but more damage to turrets. If kept the same please make the slow more impactful, just not a thing that you press and tickle the enemy champions with a feather.

"But at least you have shorter cooldowns!" Nice my Q is on a 6 second cool down because you definitely Q every 6 seconds in team fights. Nice W is on a 6 second cool down. Not worth using because you become a literal rock and your taunt is on a longer cool down than W. "Just use QEWR on the carry!" Ok you are only useful for 2 seconds then your gonna die or your team is gonna lose in a 4v5 unless none of them fell behind and or ahead.

You provide nothing what so ever for your team as a rammus besides locking down one champion and one champion only. And that is if you actually manage to break through the enemy line and reach the carry. There is only 3 results of this. You die a horrible death, you get to the carry and keep them busy for 2 seconds then they just don't even look at you, kill your team then turn on you because you have no presence. Or you make it to the carry and pray to god your team wasnt behind what so ever and could take care of themselves. Which leads me into my next point.

Rammus early game is garbage. Trash. Rammus may have a better time clearing jungle but you can't fight enemy invades, you can not 1v1 at any point in the game, ganks are weak because someone just needs to cc your Q engage and if you fall behind your done for the game. may as well not even play. I see one of the reasons why riot reworked rammus was because "you dont have many choices and options". WRONG. With old rammus aslong as you were decent you could max either QWE and do just fine. You could build full ADC or AP (atleast i could) go full tank you name it. Now his W is so bad you don't start it first or max it. You do not start or max Q. You start and max taunt. If you start and max anything else your in for a world of hurt because you will probably be invaded. You max E every game. And you only build full tank now. You could argue full AP but i dont think AP is as good as tank.

And the worst part of all of this is the people who don't play rammus and liked the rework, or the people who do play rammus and liked the rework but have no idea what they are talking about. These people who support a clear nerf to a champion who does not even deserve a nerf.

I feel this rework could have gone better and smoother and definitely needs work.

I waited 2 patches for a fix or a mention of rammus. And all i get are rumors that his dance speed with scale with movement Rammus You will be forever missed in my heart and it was fun being with you.

Extra note: I dont claim my suggested changes to be better or more balanced than the new rammus. It's just my idea on what could have been a more interesting rammus. But at this point i kinda consider anything else to be better.

Extra Extra note: sorry to add on to this, but please share this around. Even if i get hate for this kind of post, i just want riot to see it and understand that they had so much potential with rammy and i want nothing more than for him to be playable again. Or atleast acknowledge that this was not a good rework.

wow there's quite a few people out there that seems to think they know better than someone who has played the champion for years and win rate is all that matters. Or seems to be under the impression all I care about is damage when I more care about everything but E being a nerf and that his gameplay is not fun at all. As one person said "when has a rammus player every thought, "I wish I could nasus W myself""

160 Comments

Naching32 votes

Riot destroyed totally a cool, fun and balanced champ....

But why? Its crazy

I never complained about nerfs, but with Rammus isnt a nerf, its a deleted champ.

Râmmus Bot11 votes

{quoted}

Riot destroyed totally a cool, fun and balanced champ....

But why? Its crazy

I never complained about nerfs, but with Rammus isnt a nerf, its a deleted champ.

Rammus did not deserve what happened to him. He needed a rework that made him fun and actually good. It was not hard to counter him before and its certainly even easier to counter him now. Counter junglers dominate him, carries which rammus is suppose to be good at locking down cant even do that anymore. If rammus ever becomes a threat you literally just get item 3139 and he is useless for aslong as his taunt is down. Atleast with old rammus you could keep pace with the enemy and auto them with extra defenses.

korg0234 votes

I said this 1000 times and i will keep saying it every time this thread pops up. Wise words sir!

ZT Xperimentor13 votes

"And the worst part of all of this is the people who don't play rammus and liked the rework, or the people who do play rammus and liked the rework but have no idea what they are talking about." The rift of several season old mains and new players regarding every rework.

Râmmus Bot2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=85XohKyf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-27T09:04:52.220+0000)

"And the worst part of all of this is the people who don't play rammus and liked the rework, or the people who do play rammus and liked the rework but have no idea what they are talking about." The rift of several season old mains and new players regarding every rework.

Sorry its two am, im pretty tired, not sure what to make of this comment.

OP Garen Support4 votes

He probably means new players like the rework not the old 1s who actually have experience in the game.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

What MrBreakTime said, but also including players who never played the champion significantly before the rework as well as the new players.

LankPants9 votes

They did the same thing to Sejuani, Maokai and tank items too.

The best thing Riot could do at this point would be to revert everything they did in the midseason to do with tanks, apologise and not fuck up another class with one of their garbage class reworks ever again.

korg0234 votes

dont get the down votes but they actually did, they made all of those champions worse after tank update. I used to have fun as Maokai,Senjuani and Rammus i no longer have fun playing any of them. This game is becoming really dumb.

Melledoneus7 votes

As much as I agree that Rammus isn't in the best place right now...

Congrats you literally ruined my favorite champion to play.

^ No designer in their right mind would want to partake in any discussion where this is the first sentence. I understand your frustration and I personally agree Rammus needs help, but if you want to actually help make a difference then it is better to foster discussion rather than hatred and anger. As much as I hate to preach like some disgruntled old man, it saddens me to see that the promoted discussions of the boards brew anger more than invite discussion by the people who worked on the rework.

i just want riot to see it and understand that they had so much potential with rammy and i want nothing more than for him to be playable again

^This is the message that you should have promoted. This is what you should have started with, and built your post around. You truly love Rammus and wish to see him in a better place, but the rework did not succeed as well as you'd hoped. It is alright to be angry or sad, but how you convey your message is very important and affects how much actual constructive discussion happens in your thread.

Next time you wish to post about an issue to be fixed, it helps to try to take a step back and see if you actually listed the problems and suggested changes/directions rather than let personal feelings bleed into the post and twist your thoughtful message into a rant. I believe that it is within everyone's heart to help fix issues they see in the game, so I invite everyone, including myself, to do their best to make these Boards about discussion again rather than what the nay-sayers call "the circlejerk of the week." Starting here.

Râmmus Bot5 votes

Fixed my post

Melledoneus5 votes

I appreciate your open-mindedness, DelexPSN. I assure you, changes like these are the first step to a better, more communicative Boards.

You have done a great thing this day. +1

Râmmus Bot3 votes

{quoted}

I appreciate your open-mindedness, DelexPSN. I assure you, changes like these are the first step to a better, more communicative Boards.

You have done a great thing this day. +1

Thank you and im sorry. Just seeing the champion i essentially one tricked turned into what it is now tilted me. He was my go to champion for when i wanted to relax and i just cant get that with him or any other champion right now. And its not that i dont want to adapt to his changes. Its just i feel like i cant with him now. Thanks for reading my post

Melledoneus4 votes

Hey, don't feel bad. It's natural to get upset when your champion gets changed to horrifying degrees (trust me, I main Shen, I know). Rammus feels quite off right now, and I agree. The best we can hope for is to start a post to raise awareness and hopefully Riot will start prioritizing fixing our last anti-AD jungler.

Velasan2 votes

{quoted}

Hey, don't feel bad. It's natural to get upset when your champion gets changed to horrifying degrees (trust me, I main Shen, I know). Rammus feels quite off right now, and I agree. The best we can hope for is to start a post to raise awareness and hopefully Riot will start prioritizing fixing our last anti-AD jungler.

Replying to this because I'm actually curious what was it about old Shen that was beloved? I picked up Shen after the rework and love him in his current version. I don't actually know what old Shen did except that he could still teleport.

Also, I felt the same way after the Viktor rework from like 2 years ago, despite the fact that it also technically made him stronger. He just has never felt the same to play.

hhaavviikk6 votes

even if rammus ends up being strong he just doesn't feel satisfying anymore, especially that W

Râmmus Bot5 votes

{quoted}

even if rammus ends up being strong he just doesn't feel satisfying anymore, especially that W

It's not even that I want him to be strong. He needed a good rework that made him at least playable and fun. This rework was the complete opposite

korg0234 votes

I keep saying this but ignorant people just respond with ( HE IS FINE ,LOOK AT HIS WIN RATE HE IS FINE)...jesus christ no one is talking about win rate i am talking about how utterly terrible it feels to play as rammus.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku6 votes

Rammus's dead ??? nice joke... Even at decent elo (not ur) he have >51%wr (diams).

Now his W is so bad you don't start it first or max it. You do not start or max Q. You start and max taunt

no u still start with W. http://current.lolalytics.com/champion/Rammus/Jungle/

Râmmus Bot5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=85XohKyf,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-27T10:47:54.699+0000)

Rammus's dead ??? nice joke... Even at decent elo (not ur) he have >51%wr (diams).

no u still start with W. http://current.lolalytics.com/champion/Rammus/Jungle/

People don't understand that you gain nothing from maxing W. You get a 5% increase of armor per level. Go read the guides and opinions on reddit. The people maxing W are the new players. And win rate doesn't tie into gameplay. He has no early game and so on. At this point I would just be repeating things I have already said. But take my words with a grain of salt I only mained him since s3 including the 300k+ points I had on him. I remember when he was a viable top lane. Oh wait.

korg0236 votes

Riot fucked up badly with Rammus, they dont want to admit it. I cant remember any rework gets this much backlash. Riot just fix it ASAP! stop ignoring it and pretending its going away. I will make sure there is post like this on main page every week!

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

" I cant remember any rework gets this much backlash"

Hahahahahahahaha! Rammus is a welcome with open arms compared to the backlash I've seen from other reworks.

Shablagoo5 votes

Rengar?

korg0235 votes

I am ashamed in Riots name but Rammus was way better before change. Not just better in terms of power but how fun he was to play. They made from fun champion to literally cancer to play as.

Taric The Gay5 votes

They could give him some sort of CC immunity /extra tenacity while he uses W. so he could be the real turtle, who shakes everything of, but is slow as heck

AL0003 votes

Does he still say "ok?"

Râmmus Bot5 votes

{quoted}

Does he still say "ok?"

He says ok but every time he says ok he is screaming internally

Prison AnaI3 votes

you see a rammus and its like oh no whats hes going to do, wobble towards me at 1km/hr

Flemman3 votes

rammus is the equivalent of champion of max range aurelion Q, fun to do but not usefull at any point

SanKakU3 votes

To me, he seems much better to play than the new Galio. And Galio seems much better than Sejuani. And Sejuani feels much better than Alistar. He also feels better than the new Shaco, for what it's worth.

Does that mean he doesn't need some changes to make him better? Absolutely not. I don't even play any of those champions much, if at all anymore.

It feels to me like the balance team isn't very quick about making sure the reworks feel good. And it's worth mentioning that Rammus needs some bug fixes besides the balances changes.

I may not believe in mains, but Rammus was my top played champion just before his rework hit. That top played champ was hotly contested by Kayle, Janna, and Varus. Rammus has been played quite a bit more since his rework by me, but that isn't because I adore the changes. More like I am trying to get good with him again and not succeeding at it as well as I would like.

V The Support V3 votes

This is more of a rant and a "Revert please" post, but it does have some good points.

May I just pitch a marrying of his E AND R? (Think old Galio) If so, it would then open up a slot for a new spell...

Râmmus Bot4 votes

Granted i do think a revert wouldnt be bad, i did offer ideas for each of the abilities i thought needed work and offered new ideas. Even for taunt i suggested maybe a longer cooldown with its cooldown being shorted slightly by autos because why does a tank need attack speed boost? I have plenty of other ideas but my post was already long enough. There was one ability that i said should be reverted entirely and that was his ult, and i didnt even say that it NEEDED to be reverted. I suggested that the slow should be more impactful. I also criticized his gameplay and how he works now in terms of options and choices. And i want rammus to have a rework. I dont want him to have a rework that makes him awkward to play and ruined him. If this isnt a constructive post that offers new ideas i dont know what is.

V The Support V3 votes

Doing God's work. Keep it up! +1

zlumpy3 votes

I miss the old days of just going really fast and having good periods of being nigh unkillable when I engaged. He used to be one of the best at gettin stuck in!

OP Garen Support2 votes

Feel your pain. Same thing happened to Malzahar He lost HALF of his damage but at least he got a worthless shield...

SEKAI3 votes

{quoted}

Feel you pain. Same thing happened to Malzahar He lost HALF of his damage but at least he got a worthless shield...

At least Malz is slowly being reverted like Morde. A few things will stick, but it won't be too much of a compromise in the end.

Verarticus2 votes

I'm just hoping that they hurry on his big rework he's suppose to be getting, but unfortunately he's probably gonna be Aatrox'd here...but with less follow up tweaking.

Râmmus Bot2 votes

{quoted}

I'm just hoping that they hurry on his big rework he's suppose to be getting, but unfortunately he's probably gonna be Aatrox'd here...but with less follow up tweaking.

Wait what i thought this was his big rework. That gives me hope and makes me even more worried lmfao

DragonShea2 votes

How to improve rammus:

  1. Make HIs Q knock back minion's cuz he shouldn't have to roll around them. that is an outdated design.

  2. Make his W reduce his MS by around 10 to 15% instead of fucking 60%. He can't catch people if he is that slow and with his ult up. he would be a close-quarter beast.

  3. Make his E refresh its duration from 3 auto attacks when you are not using your W or Ult.

Those are his Key issues the rest is fine.

Iźuku Midoriya2 votes

I know im bad for this but I was mid Q and accidentally hit W instead of E because i was new to rammus and people get away, i did it multiple times too

Râmmus Bot2 votes

{quoted}

I know im bad for this but I was mid Q and accidentally hit W instead of E because i was new to rammus and people get away, i did it multiple times too

I do it a few times to accidently but mostly because i fast finger W. There are times where i feel the need to do the QWER combo, but now its better to do QEWR because if you miss click taunt after going into W the enemy is gonna get away.

Profirix2 votes

I was looking up Rammus' stats online and now I'm wondering how the hell Riven is one of his greatest counters? She has to weave in auto attacks to maximize damage... something is clearly wrong with the champion if this is the case.

Regardless, I like the fact that Powerball can be canceled but I agree that his W should not punish Rammus so much. The only reason a skill should EVER punish a champion directly is if the proper use of said skill or champion kit can result in an insane amount of power. I just don't see that in Rammus' case. Take Blitzcrank for example: his self-slow on W is god awful but I am willing to put up with it because the amount of movement speed you gain for a decent duration gives you the boost you need to get in range for a hook. All it takes for Blitz to be good is to land a hook. Rammus on the other hand has to keep the enemy sitting there fighting him, but ever since his taunt received its original nerfs a few seasons ago, combined with this 60% ridiculous self slow, what is keeping the enemy from walking away after 2.25 seconds (max rank, and taunt is usually leveled second). You have nothing to keep them there. They have no reason to attack you for 12 seconds (the cooldown on taunt).

Râmmus Bot3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tongue in Cheek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=85XohKyf,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2017-06-28T01:11:42.340+0000)

I was looking up Rammus' stats online and now I'm wondering how the hell Riven is one of his greatest counters? She has to weave in auto attacks to maximize damage... something is clearly wrong with the champion if this is the case.

Regardless, I like the fact that Powerball can be canceled but I agree that his W should not punish Rammus so much. The only reason a skill should EVER punish a champion directly is if the proper use of said skill or champion kit can result in an insane amount of power. I just don't see that in Rammus' case. Take Blitzcrank for example: his self-slow on W is god awful but I am willing to put up with it because the amount of movement speed you gain for a decent duration gives you the boost you need to get in range for a hook. All it takes for Blitz to be good is to land a hook. Rammus on the other hand has to keep the enemy sitting there fighting him, but ever since his taunt received its original nerfs a few seasons ago, combined with this 60% ridiculous self slow, what is keeping the enemy from walking away after 2.25 seconds (max rank, and taunt is usually leveled second). You have nothing to keep them there. They have no reason to attack you for 12 seconds (the cooldown on taunt).

I could get over or work around Q. But the W is silly. Atleast with old rammus you gained extra defense, some extra AD thanks to passive (its not much maybe 70 ad?) and you could chase and auto. You just cant do it anymore. And i know people say theres a certain combo and way you are suppose to do it now but i find most times 9/10 that it doesnt work as well like it should on paper.

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

I made a post about the new Rammus as soon as the patch hit, no replies. :c

However, I saved this image I made! http://imgur.com/j0oONtB

Râmmus Bot2 votes

{quoted}

I made a post about the new Rammus as soon as the patch hit, no replies. :c

However, I saved this image I made! http://imgur.com/j0oONtB

LOL THE TRUTH and yeah i made a few posts about rammus but they all caught flak and i got bm. This one really took off and im glad it did. Maybe riot will look at this and fix him

Forescythe1 votes

Seems perfectly inline with what they did to Sion, and many others. At first they came for the Sion mains but I did not speak up because I was not a Sion main. Sorry but your complaints will fall on deaf ears, just like everyone else's who absolutely hated the reworks.

Junglerz Fault2 votes

I keep seeing people saying "same with X champ". Saying these things doesn't fix yours or anyone else's problems you know. Maybe you should try harder to make changes than to try to bring others down.

Forescythe1 votes

I'm not trying to bring you down, best of luck to you buddy, just giving you my opinion, which is that you are wasting your time complaining about it. feel free to prove me wrong.

Junglerz Fault2 votes

Actually were not complaining at all. Were bringing up a constructive topic that needs addressed. It's pretty hilarious that all these people on here think this is a rant or complaining. Let me break it down for you. There is a problem with the new Rammus. We are bringing that problem up. What is so difficult to understand? How is this wasting time if it gets fixed?

Ambitions

Forescythe2 votes

best of luck.

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