@RIOT: Could you please accept the Ancient Coin rework was a failure and just change it?

Raoul··24 votes·884 views

I dont even care if you just change it back or change it to be totaly different, but as item 3301 is right now, its just a failure of an Item.

It was already the least popular choise before the quest updates, but right now its just garbage.

Its either item 3302 or item 3303 , even supports that would normaly choose item 3301 over item 3303 will now buy the second one, just because of how bad the coin Items became.

The problem are actually so obvious that it isnt even hard to point them out.

  1. The coin pickup system is a bad mechanic conbsidering the type of champion who would buy the item. Relic shield suffers the same problems, but the champions buying it are normaly tanky enough to handel a shot or two, but Coin CHampion are squishies who want the sustain the item provides. The change from HP sustain to mana sustain was kinda ok, even though I really miss it, but that just means changing your playstyle. But now you are forced to get harassed if you want the money or the mana... and its super easy to preict where you are going to be...

  2. The quest reward is useless. Plain and simpel. We are talking about Support champions here, Champs that are build around being lower level than everyone else. One more skillpoint is no powerspike for them. I mean, seriously, lets just compare the rewards: item 3401 : A nice passive shield, that adds to your sustain and is pretty easy to refresh after a trade. item 3092 : A nice Speedboost after you hit an enemy, allowing you to either chase him down or get back to safety before you take damage yourself item 3069 : You can give one of your abilities another point a bit earlier... Useless in lategame and meh in midgame (see above for reason)

  3. The stats it gives just... suck. 5% CDR is nearly useless that early into the game where you are heavily gated by your mana pool (and no, the coin drops dont change it enough), so basically the only stat you get from the item is the 2 Gp10... Which makes you even more desperate for these coin drops, which are on top of it a RANDOM MECHANIC! And it doesnt get better when you upgrade it. Hell, item 3096 gives you the same effective stats as a freaking item 1006 + 10% CDR.

So in short:

  1. Coin Drop is a bad mechanic
  2. The reward is useless
  3. The stats are bad.

There isnt even a real way to fix this broken Item. Either put it back to the state it was before with a new Quest, or rework it completely.

30 Comments

SpaghettiVase3 votes

I stopped playing Janna all together because of it.

Leaf on Bush2 votes

Isn't the extra mana nice?

Raoul1 votes

Its not worth having a so slot and gold inefficient item...

Leaf on Bush1 votes

If your solution was not playing janna anymore then you are kinda contradicting yourself.

It still is the best option to get coin.

Raoul1 votes

Just try your luck with item 3303 , it will be worth it later on...

SpaghettiVase1 votes

It's not enough to make me wanna buy it, the risk outweighs the rewards early and late.

Revali2 votes

it was aimed at making people like soraka actually have to do something in lane other than press w

or janna and press e.

and it fixed that pretty much.

Raoul3 votes

Honestly, with Soraka you are way better of just buying item 3303 .

And for Janna the only reason to use it is that you just cant use the other items effectivly.

You have to admit, the quest reward isnt worth it.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

If the change to Coin pushes Soraka to buy Spellthief, which forces her to get into range and harass to get gold, it is a success.

Janna is objectively the strongest support in the game. She can have a shitty laning phase.

Leaf on Bush3 votes

Except for those players that never used coin on Soraka for a long time. xD

This whole coin + W max was inefficient as fuck ever since they assigned the self heal to levels in Starcall and also made it easier to slow people with Starcall, while increasing the W cooldown and reducing the flat heal.

This pretty much screams: "max fucking Q, poke and rely on Rejuvenation in laning phase and only use W to pass the damn Rejuvenation!"

But most Soraka players kinda refused to reconsider their playstyle. I think many still do.

crippler384 votes

tbh I max w just for the cdr so I can use it more than once every 2 centuries.

Nymzo7 votes

Yea let's make the only 2 supports that sacrifice lane pressure for safeness unable to play passif, genius!!

CasterGilgamesh3 votes

the logic astounds me even to this day

sardiniii1 votes

Or that the previous gameplay style was unhealthy.

Being able to sit at your tower, earn the same amount of gold and just sheild your adc is not a healthy way of playing the game

Nymzo1 votes

{quoted}

Or that the previous gameplay style was unhealthy.

Being able to sit at your tower, earn the same amount of gold and just sheild your adc is not a healthy way of playing the game

I don't know what is it with people with passif enchanters. Do you think every single enchanter has to poke like Lulu, Karma or Nami? Enchanters already suffer from a lack of identity because they already all do the same thing except for some minor specific differences. At least Soraka and Janna have ''different'' playstyle because of that.

Also their gameplay make them very simple to pick up without make them a Garen and a comeback to the support role in mmo.

Also again, they lose lane pressure. They CANNOT do anything, all they can do substain and hope they do not lose lane, that is literally the laning phase for them. You can pick almost ANYTHING and you will not be punish. And their jungler? Yea except both of them also have no follow-up for ganks, so unless they have a LeeSin, you should be fine by just... running away.

Of course those 2 are going to be toxic for you if you one trick a poke/substain support, substain always beat poke. Try to play Soraka or Janna vs a good Blitzcrank, I want to see how unhealthy you would be when Blitz can just sit in lane and throw grabs without being punish.

Oh yea and them having the same amount of gold? I doubt it. Especially for a Janna, who the 3 support items suck for her right now.

sardiniii1 votes

My point is that its difficult to play against, as in that most champs simply forfeit laning phase.

Its also incredibly frustrating to play With, i have played a lot of adc, and when you have a support that plays too passively, especially when you have a adventurous match up if they pressure.

You get me?

sardiniii1 votes

Agreed

Leaf on Bush2 votes

item 3301 is the middle road and not supposed to do amazing things.

Its only almost must buy on Janna and Rakan.

YOu get it because you want the active or because your champion is not melee and also can't interact much with enemies.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

its only a must buy on Rakan because he cant use item 3302

HeeroTX1 votes

Agreed. I used to buy coin on supports when I didn't care as much about mana (so not going item 3303 ) but didn't feel like playing the last hit "mini-game". But with the coin mechanic, I don't have any reason to pick it over item 3302 and as noted, I never really picked it over item 3303 . CDR just isn't worth it in early game (over health or mana) and it's completely obsolete (on gold gen item) by midgame.

Raoul2 votes

Especially because every other Item gets CDR anyway, but is more slot efficient...

crippler381 votes

The item gives more gold than the other 2, 30 more gold per assist is a lot.

Raoul1 votes

30 gold is like 2 Pokes with item 3098 or 2 melee Minions with item 3097 ...

crippler382 votes

Those have cooldowns, and also require an enemy nearby, and you get 30 gold from the wave every wave as well.

The coin gives you more gold at essentially all points of the game I can assure you.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

I still don't understand why it item 3069 doesn't build out of item 3096 and item 3114 ?

Like,all enchanters support love the healing and shielding stat? Don't really have a problem with the item 3301 gold flow,but the range of how close you have to be to pick it up. That could use a slight increase.

EDIT:To aynone who downvoted me,you could have at least replied why you disagree.

Enrovy1 votes

It's not worth buying since adc these days can punish you for walking to grab the coins

Steelflame1 votes

They were working to fix it but they couldn't figure out a good change last patch.

I personally think Coin should have the CDR replaced with heal/shield power of the same value (5% on Coin, 10% on Medalion), and Talisman should drop the Raptor cloak for a Forbidden Idol making it a 20% heal/shield power item with no defensive stats.

This would effectively be reverting the item to before a change a long time ago for it's build path when they changed it for a few reasons (1. Mana regen was overstacked on support items. 2. Forbidden Idol was trash because it didn't have anything other than CDR and regen, the heal/shield stat didn't exist yet, and 3, Coin had to be nerfed massively because it was so uninteractive to play against.)

The only other change would be for the quest reward to make you be treated as one level higher for all purposes other than base stats. A ton of support items and masteries have level scaling. The current fake level up only helps you level another ability once.

Linna Excel1 votes

Thresh seems to like the item a lot because it works with his passive.

Just Blame Jenny1 votes

It does feel a little undertuned, but I'm not convinced that it's worthless. A quick perusal of challenger level games reveals that it's still being used.

Though I guess maybe those players are just bad?

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