Why is Zac Allowed to do That?

Limrick·Oct 1, 2016·6 votes·671 views

Best engage in League, insanely tanky, high base damage, a revive passive, insane mobility, crazy amounts of displacement and non-cleansable CC, he's just Gragas 2.0.

He's stupid broken. Basically a free win unless your entire team shits themselves all game.

Downvoted by mindless jungle mains and tanks that don't give a shit, yay

How is the average player actually this retarded? If you wanna disagree, fine, leave a counter-argument. Don't just mindlessly downvote and say "git gud". Now people won't get to see this post because you random jerks downvoted it to hell for no reason other than that you disagree.

55 Comments

AstôlfoOct 1, 20168 votes

Because you don't know how to deal with him?

LimrickOct 1, 20164 votes

There is no way to deal with him. He has the highest range non-ultimate dash in the game, and even if he misses, he can press R and lock you down anyways. His cooldowns are low enough that he can move around the map very quickly. His clears are fast and he takes zero damage from them. Even if you kill him, he has a revive, which can be made unstoppable with TP. His base damage is high enough to 1-shot a squishy pre-20 minutes.

He is extremely overpowered, and there is absolutely no excuse otherwise.

GimileeOct 1, 20162 votes

Not true, Sol has a higher dash bb :)

LimrickOct 1, 20163 votes

If you can call it that. Sol can't even cast it if he gets so much as sneezed on by an enemy. Zac can take 3000 damage and still jump over 2 walls to escape.

DreadlocksOct 1, 20163 votes

Thresh E can easily stop his initiation..

LimrickOct 1, 20164 votes

IF you're playing Thresh. And that's assuming the Thresh is halfway competent. And even then he just ults anyways.

DreadlocksOct 1, 20163 votes

Well you said he has the "best initiation" so technically im not wrong.

LimrickOct 1, 20162 votes

True I suppose.

RalanrOct 1, 20165 votes

Any hard CC stops his dash mid way.

LimrickOct 1, 20162 votes

Not if he's already in the air. Only knockups do, which isn't reliable to land on him mid-flight. And what happens if you don't have a knockup? You die.

RalanrOct 1, 20164 votes

Or you move out of the way.

LimrickOct 1, 20163 votes

Then he ults and flashes onto you. You still die.

RalanrOct 1, 20163 votes

Congratulations, he wasted his flash and can't do that again for five minutes.

You're dead, but he can't do that again for five minutes.

LimrickOct 1, 20163 votes

Congratulations, you still died. Which means your lane opponent gets to push in the wave, costing you more CS, they get to them roam and potentially kill more people, or they could go take an objective. The kill itself isn't much, but everything that comes with it is well worth the jungler's flash. And that's assuming he misses the jump. Even in high ELO, Zac players rarely miss someone who doesn't have flash or a mobility spell. It isn't easy to dodge, especially if they time it so you're locked into an animation.

You're usually pretty reasonable, but there is no excuse for Zac, and defending him is pointless.

RalanrOct 1, 20164 votes

Riot's already planning on looking into Zac next patch. Most likely making his shadow more visible.

LimrickOct 1, 20162 votes

Good, can't wait.

Milodic MellodiOct 1, 20161 votes

His dash and Tristana's dash are the same. Things like Veigar's and Jinx's Es with ground him like any normal dash, he's not effect-free just because he's flying. Riot doesn't have a Z-Axis implemented, and likely never will, so it's just as though he's running on the ground.

AstôlfoOct 1, 20165 votes

It'd be easier to see how to play against him if you wiped your tears away first. Just saying. shrug

LimrickOct 1, 20164 votes

Downvoting all my comments because you disagree is awfully immature.

AstôlfoOct 1, 20165 votes

Not sure why you're assuming I'm doing that. I honestly couldn't care less about up/downvotes.

LimrickOct 1, 20161 votes

If you aren't, my apologies. But given that all of my comments were downvoted within seconds of your reply, it was my first assumption. My bad.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 1, 20168 votes

maybe someone else is reading your comments and think they are pointless crying and are downvoting

Not xPekeOct 1, 20162 votes

He is, not a coincidence that I had the same thought, and I just read your comment.

He most definitely is. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Milodic MellodiOct 2, 20161 votes

Go away Iago, Jafar needs some company. Because, you know...he's just parroting what the topic creator said. Puns for the win?

Not xPekeOct 1, 20162 votes

You are because magically the same just happened just after you started replying to me. You even went as far as downvoting every single post to other people and I'm starting to believe in other threads as well.

So sad man.

Oh wait, I bet you blame coincidence or believe you're actually right and someone else must be agreeing with you. Nice joke.

AstôlfoOct 1, 20163 votes

Hmm, aight buddy.

Continue on. The irony is hilarious.

And considering most actually good players know Zac isn't OP because they actually know how to play against him, I'm not sure what you're rambling on about. :)

Not xPekeOct 1, 20162 votes

You really need to look up the definition of Irony haha.

Yeah because many pro players haven't said Zac is actually OP, especially NA players like Meteos? No right?

And because didn't many casters and analysts say Zac is very strong right now during Worlds? No right?

Even high elo streamers in Masters and Diamond say the same.

But keep denying without actually embracing a healthy debate. Just shows the kind of person you are. Fine with me.

AstôlfoOct 1, 20163 votes

Considering you fail to realize what it is, you really shouldn't be replying in kind. But ah well, it's hilarious I guess, in a sort of sad way. Do continue on entertaining me.

You do realize casters are like broadcasters for any other show? Yes, they're usually knowledgeable. If they also just state plain, ordinary crap, it's boring and no one cares. They make a fuss and exaggerate just about everything to make it more entertaining? Same applies to streamers for the most part. The person is the reason they're watched. Not their gameplay.

But feel free to continue on complaining when you are unable to even look things up. It's hilarious. I like having things to laugh about. Thanks :)

Not xPekeOct 1, 20162 votes

The only one entertaining someone is you with your trolling. I guess I gotta admit you got me good. Good job. 9/10 troll.

The reason I know that you are trolling is you keep putting words in my mouth and twisting the reality of what is being said.

I am not "complaining". Someone made a post, to which I commented on, because I so happen to agree with his general thought on the subject. God forbid someone have an opinion on a champion and not be whining about him. Let's all follow Nep2une's beliefs or we'll be labelled crybabies. Ok mate.

You don't agree with me and your only comeback is to discredit my opinion by labelling it as whining or complaining. Now that is truly laughable at.

AstôlfoOct 1, 20161 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/VY78LxgV-is-zac-gonna-get-nerfed-anytime-soon?comment=0007000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Regard this post, typing what's essentially the same thing twice takes too much effort.

PermabannedGarenOct 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Because you don't know how to deal with him?

I guess Dyrus doesn't either, who thinks Zac is one of the most broken junglers in the game. I guess SKT or C9 (I forget which) just needs to get fucking good since they banned Zac at worlds today. I guess all the high elo players who ban him or think he's busted just need to learn how to play against his ability to jump up your asshole from way beyond the fog of war.

AstôlfoOct 1, 20164 votes

I wasn't aware people thinking something automatically made them right. And if I remember correctly, Dyrus barely plays anyways anymore.

I don't see how banning = OP. Bans, at an actually high level, are used to counterban picks or picks that'd disrupt a teamcomp.

All the """high elo""" players that think he's busted should listen to the actual high ELO players and learn how to play against him and ward the fucking spots he'd jump from.

PermabannedGarenOct 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I wasn't aware people thinking something automatically made them right. And if I remember correctly, Dyrus barely plays anyways anymore.

He plays every day and streams his play every day. He has a youtube channel dedicated to his League play that is updated frequently.

Also, you said you relied on higher elo players and data to get a read of what's what in League, since you acknowledge that your own experience is not a valid gauge of champion balance.

http://champion.gg/champion/Zac

So here's some data. Zac has one of the single least experienced playerbases in the entire game. He has one of the highest jungle win rates and play rates, as well as the second highest overall performance. Experienced Zac players have a near 59% win rate (somewhat above average). Based on this data, he is, at worst, a good deal stronger than average.

I don't see how banning = OP. Bans, at an actually high level, are used to counterban picks or picks that'd disrupt a teamcomp.

I don't know who the fuck told you that. Do you live in a fantasy world where overpowered champions don't exist? Sure, you can use them to ban a player out or because they counter you, but they are just as often done to ban OP bullshit, hence Mordekaiser's 100% pick/ban status at Worlds last year.

Zac is definitely not as disgusting as Mordekaiser was, but that doesn't imply he isn't too strong.

All the """high elo""" players that think he's busted should listen to the actual high ELO players and learn how to play against him and ward the fucking spots he'd jump from.

Oh? And what high elo players are those? Name some.

Oh, and no one can ward all of Zac's ganking spots. He has the most diverse choice of ganking positions in the entire game, while also being the single hardest jungler to kill in the game, while also dealing more damage per game than any other tank jungler but Sion (and I'm not counting bruisers who get cinderhulk like Dr. Mundo as tank junglers), while tanking more damage than any jungler per game save Mundo or Trundle, etc.

So why do you think Zac is okay?

AstôlfoOct 1, 20163 votes

Because he's been doing just fine till now? He's strong, no one doubts that. He's just not OP.

Nothing changed for him specifically, except maybe an itemization change or two somewhere. The matchups he goes through are what got changed. His matchups get nerfed, so obviously he'd do better.

I don't see how it's different from any other time Zac had been out yet no one intelligent complained about him, considering Zac got no large changes in recent time.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 1, 20161 votes

they also banned nid in worlds. rumble. are they all broken too?

PermabannedGarenOct 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gnvxyIdT,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2016-10-01T07:07:38.496+0000)

they also banned nid in worlds. rumble. are they all broken too?

Nidalee is consistently one of the single most broken champions in the entire game, so yes actually, thanks for proving my point.

Rumble somewhat less so.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 1, 20161 votes

but what pro teams pick and ban for comps and contested picks are different then what the other 99.5% of people play

A little PeepoOct 1, 20167 votes

As a person who has played zac a good amount of games I can tell you that zac is a strong pick but he does have counter play to his kit. His ult and sling shot can be interrupted and even cancelled with a well timed knockup/knockback and let me tell you it's happened to me quite a few times. His passive can easily be countered with smite or even aoe damage.

Over all zac is a strong champion but for a tank he is fairly squishy until you build your items. As a tank he doesn't really have defensive steroids other than his ult, most tanks have a defensive steroid like rammus, sejuani, shyvana, malph, nautilus, ect and zac doesn't. Another problem that zac has is that he is really easy to see coming even when he slings himself, it gives the enemy a good amount of time to avoid the knock up and vision does indeed screw him over. Try playing zac and you will see what I mean that he is fairly squishy for a tank.

ProfDrDeathOct 1, 20165 votes

Learn to play against him?

I won't say that Zac is easy to play against, but I also won't say that he is particularily hard. You just need to change up your playstyle somewhat (which is something I know the playerbase hates to do, contributing to the hate for Yasuo Darius Zed ...).

Look out for the shadow.
Deeper wards.
Executioner's Calling, if you can get it.
In a fight with Zac, stomp the blobs.

LimrickOct 1, 20161 votes

I play squishy immobile mages lol. Deeper wards is fine and dandy, it makes it harder for him, but the insane range makes him able to gank from far too many places to ever have it all warded. The shadow is really hard for me to see, especially in the middle of the field of particle effects usually in midlane. I don't mind playing a certain way against him, but his counterplay is still extremely limited, whereas Zed is just "get hourglass".

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 1, 20164 votes

maybe if you see a Zac picked you change your pick so you are not a squishy immobile mage

LimrickOct 1, 20161 votes

No, that's stupid. I should not be forced to change my pick to an entirely different class because of one champion. And what happens if he picks after I do? So much for counterpicks.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 1, 20166 votes

lol ok then keep getting caught... that is what counter picking and team comps come into play. just like you dont pick annie into brand cuz brand beats annie...

wow the skull is thick with this one

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

LimrickOct 1, 20161 votes

And if he gets to pick after I do? So much for counterpicks. Countericks are not a good argument for a champion's counterplay. If you have to be a certain type of champ to stand a chance, then that champion needs changes. I'm not gonna pick Yasuo when I don't ever play him just because they MIGHT have Zac.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 1, 20163 votes

then get good

Feed DaddyOct 1, 20162 votes

He's just a tank.

Avoid all his abilities and ignore him

LimrickOct 1, 20161 votes

Just a tank. If he knocks you up you have to deal with the other members of his team, who aren't "just a tank". And avoiding the jump isn't always an option.

hOrnnOct 1, 20161 votes

big deal, his R only knocks you up once, same for his sling shot. theres alot of knockups in this game, after all you are here.

Milodic MellodiOct 1, 20161 votes

Zac's kit is based entirely around getting into enemy lines and knocking them up so his allies have a clean engage. He's extremely dependent on getting into Melee Range for his AAs AND Abilities, and loses health if he damages anything with an ability. If you have even a millisecond of vision of him, and good predicting abilities, you can dodge his E and R and shut him down before he thrashes you. You also don't need to AA his Passive; AoEs like Morgana's W, or simple skillshots like Janna's Q, can damage and destroy his blobs before he revives. Speaking of Janna, he's very weak to CC and relies on his E and R not being interrupted by that CC...so Veigar and Jinx can easily shut him down by focusing on him. He can be broken in the right team composition, but his success truly depends on how well your team works with each other. He's INSANELY dependent on teamwork, and if he Es into a 5-man team without his allies then it doesn't matter how many he knocks up -- he's going to die. R or no R, he's likely going to die simply because his team didn't come in with him because now the whole enemy team is zoning on him. It's better to let your team go in before you and then E in with the knock-up while the enemy team is focusing on your team. Funny little thing I found out though, apparently there's a hidden window of time you can charge up your E before you revive if you trigger Guardian Angel. I think it's a bug, but I've exploited it a couple times to good effect.