The New Jungle

Cale017··3 votes·570 views

Hello fellow summoners. I want to preface this by explaining that this is in no way a QQ thread, just me voicing my opinions on the new jungle changes whether positive or negative.

First off, I'm a jungle main. Listed as Bronze V, but that's just because I happen to be associated with a team that is. So before the ranked elitists come in, I'm technically unranked and would prefer to keep it that way. So whether I'm any good or not has nothing to do with my rank, it has to do with my abilities, and I'd like to think I'm not a bad jungler. Like anyone else there are moments, rarely, when I tunnel vision or a lack of communication results in misplaced ganks or bad follow ups. All in all I do love the new jungle and I've been keenly following the changes that have been made.

So first, the positives. Yes, it looks good. But aside from just LOOKING good, it's got a much more atmospheric feeling to it. The jungle as it was always seemed like sort of a Halloween thing with a little bit of fantasy mixed in. Like a Jim Henson jungle instead of what I would expect to find in a world like Runeterra. I thoroughly enjoy the idea of fighting a giant frog, or a bunch of... mutant... raptor... eagle... things. It's great fun, and the landscape lends itself much more to a lively, rich area than the old jungle did with it's darker hues and feeling of being almost trapped between the trees at times. It's not something I was ever aware of until I played on the new Rift, but looking back that's definitely the feel I get from the old one.

The items are AMAZING. The array of choices being granted is awesome, and being able to mix and match your jungle style with how you plan to play your champion in fights is perfect. It's exactly what a jungler needs if they're trying to fill in a more varied role, which let's be honest is what a jungler is there to do. You aren't locked into any one path, and that feels really freeing.

In addition, I really love the ideas being used in making the jungle more tactical. There are more objectives to control, which means that a jungler can now have a larger impact on the map, and you don't need to waste a ward at the Baron or dragon pits any longer with the crabs around. The effects of the new buffs are great, especially the slow on red buff, and the emphasis on playing your jungle the way you want to (or rather, playing your enemy's jungle the way you want to if that's your thing) is perfect. Making smite able to interact with enemy champions based on your itemization is excellent as well; it gives synergy in just the right places, and you can tell that Rito really thought out who would likely be using which improved Smite. Now more than ever I feel as though being a jungler gives me a direct control of the flow of the game. Instead of just popping in and out of lanes at the right times to secure kills or push towers, I feel a bit more empowered to forage ahead into the enemy's jungle and stymie their efforts, or to make my own jungle impossible to be taken from me.

But all of this does still come with some negatives.

First off, this new jungle hurts. It hurts bad. It seems to favor junglers with heavy sustain built into their kits, and everyone else just sort of... flails. All of the camps hit much harder than before, and reducing the amount of potions you can buy alongside your Machete makes life a lot more difficult. The tanky junglers don't seem to have enough damage to kill camps before the damage stacks up, and the damage junglers don't seem to deal enough damage to take down a camp before they've taken an uneccesary amount. It's by no means enough to cause death after death, although I did find myself executed a few times in my first round on the new Rift, but it's enough that anyone who's used to the pattern of how you could play your main champions can just feel it I think. It's off, and it doesn't seem like something that can be circumvented by any learning curve. I had a hard time getting through the jungle as Nocturne, and that has NEVER happened for me before. I feel like I need to run lifesteal runes just to survive my first few clears. Making the jungle stronger isn't necessarily a bad thing, but making the champions seem weaker while they're in it IS. More than ever, now I'm worried about hearing a howl or a "HIKKUH" and suddenly being pounced on and killed at my red buff than ever before. Which leads me to my second point.

The new jungle favors counter junglers in excess. It seems to have exacerbated the problems that the average jungler would have on the old rift when playing against a halfway skilled counter jungler by giving those who already did it well the means to do it better. The Poacher item lets them escape practically scot free after stealing a camp right below your nose if you happen to be playing a slower jungler, or one who just doesn't have enough gap close to lay down retribution. Because the new jungle seems to have people running at lower health percentages more of the time early on it leaves you painfully open to being preyed upon in your own turf. It seems like the people who were already made to survive their own and kill you, like Lee Sin for instance who has a high amount of both damage and sustain, can now clear theirs and then clear yours for you, including you if you happen to be in the way. The junglers who already have high sustain may be loving it, but the tankier ones who just can't put out that much damage or heal it back seem to be struggling. On a more personal note, I feel like Zac being viable is farther away than ever and that just makes me sad.

Third, Warwick. I've been seeing so many Warwicks, hearing about so many Warwicks, it seems like he's on a rampage. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing, I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing. I've always seen Warwick as something like baby's first jungler. His kit is simple, but effective, in much the same way as Ashe's is good for learning ADC or Veigar's is good for learning AP mid. There aren't a whole lot of complex concepts involved, and once you figure out the basic playstyle you're solid. At that point it's just down to whether or not you know when to go in on engages and how to act in a teamfight. So then why is he being so heavily favored over champions who require more skill or finesse to play? A Warwick basically has one job: walk into lane and press R on someone. That's all it takes for a successful gank, and it's what makes him so obscenely effective. Normally it isn't so bad, yeah he's a bit annoying during the early stages of the game, but eventually you can deal with him well enough so long as the enemy team isn't overly fed as a result. But because he sustains so well in the jungle, and because he can wander into yours with a movement speed boost if you happen to be neary and low health, and a movement speed boost when he clears a camp and moves on, it makes someone who should be easy to handle much harder.

He isn't a bad champion, he has a job and he does it well, and he can be built a few different but still effective ways. But playing a higher skill champion shouldn't feel frustrating when someone who's only job is to heal and ult is bearing down on you because their kit lets them practically get away with murder. Actually it doesn't practically let him, that's exactly what it does. He murders you, feasts on your corpse, and walks away because he's so simple that in the new jungle he's overly effective.

To put it plainly, it feels more like people are being rewarded for picking Warwick than for playing him.

Over all, I like the changes that are being made. But I feel that we should all be giving feedback, and this is my bit. The jungle needs to be a bit less harsh on tanky, less damaging junglers, and high sustaining counter junglers either need nerfs to compensate for how much easier their job has become, or the tankier junglers need buffs so they can keep up. Aside from that, keep up the good work Rito.

Thoughts, opinions? Obligatory "git guds"?

8 Comments

Angry Monster1 votes

I am stuck on the "my 5s is b5 and i want to be unranked solo q, but do not judge me" comment.

you play at the lowest measurable level. And refuse to solo q. Why should your experience(at the lowest level) even matter? I have seen b5 games its scary stupid. Yet you want us to think you have valid experiences....

Sry.

Cale0172 votes

You seem to misunderstand. I just don't want people attacking me for my rank on the game being listed as Bronze V. Why should me wanting to play unranked with friends make my experience any less valid though? That doesn't mean that either

A) I'm inherently a bad player or

B) The only people I play with or against are bad.

I do not play at the lowest measurable level, I play at a level that's essentially anonymous. If the best you can offer is that my being unranked means I'm not able to reasonably analyze mechanics in the game then you're exactly the problem, not the solution. You're right, B5 games ARE scary stupid, and I just plain don't want to deal with them, or with the kind of people, like you, who think that rank rules all in this game. I want to play League with friends and enjoy the experience, not get frustrated at an AP support Darius in the bottom lane.

Sry.

Angry Monster1 votes

You are rated. B5. If your friends and you can only reach that point. That says enough. Their is no way that yourr much better than the gorup you play with our you would drag your friends off the bottom of the floor. You are in B5 with them. You may play at a b3 level while they are b5 but that still bad.

Just saying i am jungle main mean nothing. It does not tell the story of the skill level you play at. Experience matters in these discussions. You are trying to say do not judge me by my company but as what i think/actually am worth. We do not know you and must take what we can from your history. Your blocking it makes this the over all topic meaningless.

Cale0172 votes

You are rated. B5. If your friends and you can only reach that point. That says enough. Their is no way that yourr much better than the gorup you play with our you would drag your friends off the bottom of the floor. You are in B5 with them. You may play at a b3 level while they are b5 but that still bad.

Just saying i am jungle main mean nothing. It does not tell the story of the skill level you play at. Experience matters in these discussions. You are trying to say do not judge me by my company but as what i think/actually am worth. We do not know you and must take what we can from your history. Your blocking it makes this the over all topic meaningless.

I wasn't even there for those matches, so it's not my friends and I. I'm just listed on the team, and we haven't even played together in months because everyone's been too busy. Again, it's just a team to play with friends and nothing more. I could get higher if I cared to, but I have other things going on that take up more time than I care to give to League in order to play Ranked. I'll play a few matches for fun a few nights of the week with roommates and friends, but I'm not out to hit Challenger. Not wanting to play ranked doesn't make me a bad player, it just means I don't want to play ranked... and that's all.

I'm just explaining why I'm so focused on the jungle changes. If you want to know if I'm experienced, play with me. That or go take a look at another post I made explaining jungle basics and giving champion advice on the boards that was pretty well received. By people who don't care about rank, they care about knowledge.

So because you do not know me you instead assume that I must be bad? Why is it so hard for you to assume a neutral standpoint instead and just go off of "they're just another player"? Once again, all you're showing is the standard over-reliance of the average League player on rank, and the exact sort of mindset that's made me not want to bother with playing ranked games. But by all means, keep focusing on what you think instead of trying to learn.

Cale0173 votes

Or if you care to keep basing it on superficial arguments, I can just as easily point out that your lack of grammatical or spelling competency would show that your intelligence is too low to make me want to believe you have anything legitimate to say.

See how easy it is to play this game? You insult me, I insult you, nothing ever progresses. It'd be easier if you just decided not to be a douche about a small discussion and attempt to down another player instead of offering advice. You have not once mentioned the topic of the jungle changes, so unless you plan to I'm asking you nicely to simply stop and leave the thread for others who might actually want legitimate discussion.

Angry Monster1 votes

You are rated. B5. If your friends and you can only reach that point. That says enough. Their is no way that yourr much better than the gorup you play with our you would drag your friends off the bottom of the floor. You are in B5 with them. You may play at a b3 level while they are b5 but that still bad.

Just saying i am jungle main mean nothing. It does not tell the story of the skill level you play at. Experience matters in these discussions. You are trying to say do not judge me by my company but as what i think/actually am worth. We do not know you and must take what we can from your history. Your blocking it makes this the over all topic meaningless.

GanksLikeGast0n2 votes

I fail to see how this was necessary. Did you really just comment to put down another player? OP was expressing legitimate thoughts about the new jungle and attempting to have a conversation with the community on this topic. In the future, show a little respect for your fellow players.

Angry Monster1 votes

SURE TRASH

your trash not cause of what ever your ranked. But your failure to understand that the game experience and skill are need for a conversation like the OP is talking about.

This is like a 1200 rated chess player trying to offer his thoughts to a grand master.

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