#junglestruggle

Cale017·Dec 1, 2014·33 votes·3,070 views

Trying to play Diana jungle. Actually doing rather well, sustain is halfway decent so long as I'm spamming the shield. I get a Jayce that gets fed early off Riven, get Gragas an early kill on Swain, and a Trist who gets an early kill on Lucian because their Ali was afk. Farming up, all is well with the world, help save Jayce from a WW gank after he kills Riven.

I warn Jayce not to play so cocky because he's pushing like there's no tomorrow. He says it doesn't matter because he's the carry now. I warn him not to get cocky because all Warwick has to do is ult him and he's shut down.

Guess what happens?

Guess who he blames?

Gragas loses all semblance of positioning.

Ali comes back, Lucian and Ali start raping the bottom lane.

Warwick everywhere.

Blitz goes into a bush and doesn't move for the rest of the match.

I'm pinging for help bot and both Jayce and Gragas, who have teleport available, don't come down. They stay in their lanes.

Swain is fed. Lucian is now fed. Warwick is fed. Ali is fed off assists. Riven is 1v3ing.

"gg our jungler sucks"

deep breath

47 Comments

GundayMondayDec 1, 201418 votes

Yay dumb teammates! Just part of the gig. Keep your head up because it happens at every single mmr. Expect it.

You need to anticipate the dumbness and how the enemy jungler will try to abuse it. This game sounds winnable. Sure your teammates probably ride a shorter than average bus (from the sound of it), but that doesn't mean that YOU can't play off them and carry.

Jayce with a killing spree pushing up? Wait in the lane bushes to countergank. Use him as bait. If you have fast fingers you can Q + Ult + E to Warwick when he ults and cancel it. This allows your fed Jayce to bat away Riven and live while you murder the two enemies. Especially since you're ahead at this point.

item 3165 for Swain on either you or Gragas . Should stop him from healing in fights while you burst him down or have Gragas ult to disengage.

Diana should be able to jump on Lucian and blow him up with your burst combo. Diana with a item 3025 has a lot of peel and cc combined with her E, so she should help your team a lot in fights.

Another thing you can do. Warwick is pretty useless until he hits 6. So counterjungling is HUGE. Take all of his camps early game leaving one small creep to abuse the 100s respawn timer. Make it painfully slow to hit 6. Sure Diana doesn't have wall jumps or good escape tools pre-6, but it's not like Warwick can catch you without his ult. That would take a lot of pressure off your lanes too if Riven and Swain are hunting you in their jungle instead of laning. Big fan of summoner 11 on the wolf camp for the free vision when invading.

Just some thoughts for you on how to improve and learn from a shitty situation. Sure your lanes were jerks. There are mute buttons for that (I use them every single game jungling, even when I'm winning). But it's going to happen most games because people don't like to come to terms with their own ineptitude ("Stupid jungler making me play poorly"). Ignore them and play your game.

Good luck and carry hard! #JungleSolidarity

Cale017Dec 1, 20142 votes

I can't really tell my teammates what to build, but I can see the merit of a Morellonomicon on Gragas, yeah.

It might sound winnable, but it really wasn't. By the time they were taking our inner turrets it was only minute 23, which is when I started the surrender vote. The main issue, them being fed aside, was that my team refused to group. Sure I can wait in the bush to countergank top, but I can't do much against four people with just an overly cocky Jayce you know? I wasn't even able to finish my third item, let alone consider trying to build an IBG.

I don't know if that's the best idea, is it? Counter jungling Warwick honestly sounds like suicide right now, especially when I don't have my ult either, so most of the burst in my kit is gone, and he has significant sustain compared to my shield early on.

Believe me, I tried to get to Lucian. But he was never without a wall of CC between him and I. His positioning was superb, it almost felt like I was playing against a smurf. The guy held his own against a Blitz/Trist lane. He knew what he was doing, and I couldn't find any openings. Granted, I'm still sort of new with Diana, but I can tell when it's a bad idea to Q-R into an Alistair, a Swain, and a Lucian.

I didn't know that knockups cancel Warwick's ult though. Even if you cleanse his suppress with a QSS/Mercurial Scimitar, the damage still goes through anyways. I would assume knocking him out of the suppression functions the same way wouldn't it?

To be honest I've been trying to avoid playing lately because I'm getting sick of the Warwicks. I don't mind too much when I get stomped by someone who's just plain outplaying me, but getting wrecked by Warwick after Warwick? It feels cheap. And dirty. Pretty sure the entire rift could use a flea bath at this point.

GundayMondayDec 1, 20141 votes

Yeah Warwick is perma-banned around diamond mmr right now. No one wants to deal with that crap.

Every game is winnable. Refuse to think otherwise. I'm trying to give advice on how you can avoid the enemy taking your turrets at 23 mins, versus what to do after they're already super fed. It sounded like you did a good job setting your team up for success, but needed to keep the snowball rolling. Sharing how I would do it!

Counter-jungling means taking his camps, not fighting him. You definitely don't want to sit still trading autos with a Warwick . He's extremely slow, so the idea is to get in, steal camps, get out, while he's on the other side of the map. If he shows up, walk away. If he chases you, he's not farming, and you're still doing your job. See what I mean? Counter jungling is how I beat diamond Warwick players, so it should work at other mmrs as well. Will also put the enemy jungler on tilt sometimes, and then he's trying to counter jungle you (free kill for you or your lanes).

What wall of cc? They have Alistar headbutt, knock up. They have Swain snare. They have Riven knock-ups and stuns. They have Warwick ult. That's it. Warwick is ulting your carries, so no need to worry about that. Swain has one snare which you can dodge with a quick Q + R. Same drill with Alistar if he knocks you back. Just Q + R back into the fight. If Riven 's on you with her cc, then she's not on your carries, which means you've done your job correctly. Your carries should be in position to burst down Warwick or anyone but Alistar in these fights. Part of the selfless nature of being a jungler/meat shield for your frail and fragile carries.

That's my two cents. Take it or leave it. Maybe more Diana players can chime in and give their perspectives?

Cale017Dec 1, 20142 votes

I see what you're saying about the counter jungling, yeah. Honestly, counter jungling is my weakest skill as a jungler right now. I usually wait until my lanes have taken out turrets before I try to counter jungle, since I know their jungler is feeling the pressure right about then. Doesn't help that most of my favorite champs are either really squishy early (Nocturne) or lack dueling potential early (Rammus, Volibear) when compared to the current state of the more sustain oriented junglers in the new jungle.

It's not a wall technically but I hope you can see why trying to ult into a snare, a stun, a suppress, and a knock up makes a wee lil' Diana feel a bit uneasy haha. I know that a Q R combo can save me from a lot, but I can only get one of those off at a time, even if I can still hit R a short time after to get another quick dodge in, but that's if I even get the chance to, you know? My entry into a fight, and most of my damage, comes from that initial Q R, so it's what I use to gap close to my target. After that it isn't available until Q comes back off cooldown eightish seconds later. Makes me queasy about going in THAT hard during a teamfight when I'm not fed enough to guarantee an instagib on their carry.

Oh, I'm well acquainted with being the meat shield. Sucks when they don't realize you doubled back to give them some extra time and try to go back in with you.

Hopefully they can. I REALLY like her kit, but I've only done well with her hit and miss. Maybe it's just because I'm jungling with her? I've seen it work before.

I appreciate your advice, I really do. I can see the merit in hopping around a fight like that, but I need my team's support to do it without getting completely stomped on and I just didn't have that. Hopefully sometime soon I can be in a position where I can try out those sorts of dodging maneuvers beneficially instead of suicidally.

GundayMondayDec 1, 20141 votes

Definitely man! Just throwing advice around, doesn't mean you need to listen to all of it. Most important thing is to think about what YOU could of done differently versus your less than competent team mates. Sure you can blame them every game you lose, but then you'll never improve. Focus on what YOU can do differently to change the situation into a victory, and you will.

And mute button OP. That's important too.

Cale017Dec 1, 20141 votes

I really want to get good with Diana, so I think I'll start by trying to improve how I build her in games to work on my own mistakes. She makes for a great assassin, but I bet she'd make for a great fighter too with just a Nashor's and a Rabadons, then a Zhonya's and two tank items. Or just a Nashor's and a Zhonya's and three tank items depending. Hrmmmmmm....

I try not to mute people so long as they aren't spamming or being outright abusive, because you never know when someone might actually try to clean up their act and give some key information in the chat instead of pinging, or try to throw out an idea to help.

rinsujoDec 1, 20142 votes

I tend to play fighters/tanks much better than assassins, so I prefer Diana in that sort of role, when I was jungling her s4 I'd try for item 3191 and item 1001 first back; item 2049 (vision op), and finish item 3157 as early as possible, item 3206 second, and then if i'm ahead item 3115 , if i'm losing to AD, item 3068 (almost never happened, zhonya's op) or if i'm losing to ap item 3001 or item 3190 . item 2043 in the last spot, or if the game goes really long, item 3026 in a bad game, or item 3100 item 3091 in a good game. I almost never got to full build though, after abyssal anyone died pretty easy.

rinsujoDec 1, 20142 votes

Stuck in B4, i'll openly admit i'm a bronze baddie. Managed to go something like 9/3 with Diana s4 though, 75% winrate felt really good. She has to find the right items s5, it's going to feel weird playing her for a while now. Anyway, gunday, it sounds like you build di a lot tankier than I do, I've never felt that I needed a gauntlet on her, I usually rush zhonyas though, which would allow someone to dive Lucian pretty hard and not have to worry as much about the cc, QRWE in, maybe proc passive once and then zhonyas as they try to cc me. I feel like a decently fed di could wreck Lucian fairly easily. However if this Lucian player was able to survive solo v blitz/trist, either blitz was missing every hook, or that is a slippery Lucian. Fuck WW. Fuck him to hell. With the damage coming from new jungle, i'd be uncomfortable counterjungling post 4, afraid he'll catch me when I get low. if my lanes were snowballing hard, maybe, but with the lack of teamwork in this game, it sounds like something i'd try to avoid. That being said, both of your posts are really helpful, and I'll probably take notes for next season. it definitely sounds like you build a much tankier Diana than I do, i'll have to look into that, and i'm definitely going to start using my aggressive teammates for bait.

Cale017Dec 1, 20143 votes

Blitz wasn't exactly awful, he landed most of the pulls that I saw him attempt. But he didn't attempt nearly as many as I would if I'd been him, and then he just hid in the jungle about 15 minutes in.

Yeah, perhaps a Zhonya's would have been better instead of working on my Lich Bane. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have been as worried about my core build as I was about just surviving long enough to do damage period.

That post 4 is exactly what I'm worried about. Sure he's slow, but if he happens to be at the same place at the same time as I am, there's not much you can do. By then he's got 2 points in his Q, and both his W and E are available so you probably won't be getting away. Even if you flash over a wall, so will he. Just feels like it's not worth the risk.

As for Diana, I considered building a Nashor's Tooth instead of a Lich Bane to help with her clear speed. And looking back, perhaps it would have been the better idea since it would have given me another 10% CDR to spam my knockup and shield a bit faster, and it would have let me put out more consistent damage a bit sooner than the Lich Bane, which has a peak and then becomes useless. Playing her as a fighter instead of an assassin might not have won me that match, but it might win me one in the future if I sense a disturbance in the lanes.

GundayMondayDec 1, 20142 votes

item 3025 is a great item for bruiser/tank champs (Built in item 3057 proc for extra damage) . Especially ones like Diana that need some extra cc for sticking power since a lot of her damage comes from auto attacks. Another reason I'd be building her tanky is because my team ( Jayce Tristana Gragas Blitzcrank ) should have plenty of damage and their team wants to get up close and personal. + hooks pulling Riven into our team XD.

Happy to give more tips if you need any. Started streaming pretty regularly and always answer questions: http://twitch.tv/gundaymonday

WereScribDec 2, 20141 votes

Oh I absolutely agree. I may not be a particularly great player. But there are very few games in the relatively disorganized world of solo queue and normals that are unwinnable. Hell, counterjungling is why I've had some success with Eve lately. (Even if I can in no way get Poachers on her, Trailblazer into Devourers is a must) because she functions best right now (in my experience) as a roaming counterjungler using her extremely fast clears to farm as fast as possible. Basically I'm playing Eve like an especially sneaky Shyvana. Devourer, Wit's and if I can get it, Sunfire.

Chromatic EagleDec 2, 20142 votes

Every game is winnable. Refuse to think otherwise.

According to Riot, 4v5 games aren't winnable if the 5th player is AFK or trolling, so I can understand his frustration.

GundayMondayDec 3, 20141 votes

I've won 3v5s against diamond players. Every game is winnable.

TooterpillarDec 1, 20149 votes

The struggle of the life of a jungler.

/surrender

YoellaDec 1, 20146 votes

Blitz goes into a bush and doesn't move for the rest of the match.

THIS.

Diana "... It's been 5 minutes Blitz wtf are you doing?" Blitzcrank "..." Diana "Blitz?" "STFU Diana I'm trying to gank."

As someone who plays jungle somewhat often, I feel you.

When someone gets mad at me after they keep doing something stupid in lane I go to their lane when the enemy is extended, and take the kill instead of giving it to them. I might say "Sorry" in chat, but I am definitely not sorry, and I will continue to KS that person for the rest of the game whenever it allows. I know there's a special place in hell for me for doing that, but I only do it when someone's being a grade A sonuvabitch.

Passive aggressiveness ftw!

Cale017Dec 1, 20144 votes

I've found that Skarner is amazing for this. Anytime I'm dealing with a pretentious AD carry, it's pretty easy to ult and start walking away. Reverse your direction at the last second and it'll put whoever you have suppressed on the other side of you, ripe for a quick stun and another Q or two while your ADC complains.

I know it's not the best thing to do for the team, but it can be oh so satisfying... especially when you end up 11/3/13 and 1v3ing the enemy team.

And they say Skarner isn't viable... heh.

doviendeDec 1, 20142 votes

Skarner really isn't viable due to the current game-breaking bug on his ultimate, which is that he can't ult anyone who has a revive (like zac / anivia, or anyone who buys a GA). Like really can't ult...GA just cancels his ult as soon as he casts. You only get the sound.

Cale017Dec 2, 20143 votes

That's odd. I've never run into that glitch, but then again I've also never used my ult on someone who was already at low health. I usually use it to keep them from doing anything while I drag them back a ways to put them where I want them, or simply farther away from their turret so they have to walk around me to get to it. I don't use it for kills.

doviendeDec 4, 20141 votes

No, you don't understand. It's not the GA revive, just having the GA in inventory. I'm not killing them, they're at full health. The bug is that you cast on someone who just has GA in inventory, and your ult will fail no matter what. It will not do damage or do CC, and the person just walks away, still full health.

Cale017Dec 5, 20141 votes

... huh. That's odd. Good thing I've never run into someone who was using GA when I was using Skarner then.

Bouffon dAnglaisDec 1, 20144 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/PYxELyEB-yep-just-blame-the-jungler

Pretty much wraps it up, in a GIF.

I hear you, bro.

Cale017Dec 1, 20142 votes

It's so true it hurts.

junglerboy16Dec 2, 20144 votes

So true, but all us jungle mains know that really, the reason we keep coming back is for that one in a million game where it all falls gloriously into place: three lanes fed, wombo combing the enemy team if they so much as look at you, eating turrets like minions, and carrying all your lanes. Sometimes it is hard to deal with all the carp that you get, but those few games where both teams just say "O_O... woah." in end game chat because you basically just beat both the enemy team and your own team's stupidity at once make it all worth it.

Cale017Dec 2, 20141 votes

It's so great when it all comes together like this. As someone who grew up playing Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem games, part of the chess club in whatever school I was in, it's just too perfect when you really feel like you're pulling the strings, making the right calls, and watching the pawns that are you teammates moving into just the right places to hit that sweet, sweet checkmate.

junglerboy16Dec 2, 20142 votes

Precisely :)

SaevumDec 1, 20144 votes

I also felt desperated after the 'warwick everywhere' line. It's so vivid.

Cale017Dec 1, 20143 votes

Right? You can just feel it.

YfrappefortDec 1, 20144 votes

I feel you. In a game I played recently, as Nautilus , it was really back and fort. However, everything changed on a fight that took place in front of our bottom inhibitor turret. I was close to oom, so before any sort of engagement, I pigned and said brb oom. I had homeguard, so that would have taken a few secs only.

But then our Irelia decided to engage the Tryndamere split pushing, then got caught by the rest of the enemy team. The rest of my team then engaged one by one and got wiped cleanly. I watched that happen as I was running to them, but quickly backed off since I knew the fight was already over.

They then pushed and ended the game. "Pussiest Naut NA", Irelia said. sigh. Better blame the jungler for everything...

Wînter FoxDec 2, 20144 votes

I feel your pain OP, I forgot the pure horror of being the jungler.

I've been jungling Diana for the passed week. In one game we had our Kassadin vs. enemy Nasus top, and Fizz vs. enemy Heimerdinger mid. So I made the decision to focus on ganking these two lanes and get these assassins rolling, especially with Heimer pushing like no tomorrow and Nasus is just a ticking time bomb. So we're doing well, I was 1/0/2 but our Blitzcrank is pissed I haven't come bot. So he literally comes up to harass me while I jungle: waits around, steals my large monsters, steals my red, etc. "I'll keep stealing your camps until you come bot" Meanwhile our Vayne is getting wrecked 2v1 obviously, so I concede and give in to this terrorist's demands and focus on bot. Turns out Nasus recovers and is able to grow enough until he becomes unstoppable, and despite having a 10+ kill advantage, all of us (except Blitz) having a positive KDA, and having dragon advantage, we lose.

I hate this game sometimes.

SpecterVonBarenDec 1, 20143 votes

I don't know, I kinda see jungling more like this most of the time.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/ce87e403910303a6028f6db57fed6e5b/tumblr_newhpwLS1g1r5h2ogo1_500.gif

Okay, I need to gank top to keep Nasus down, but I've been waiting for the enemy gank on our Veigar so we can get him snowballing, ugh, bot's pinging me for a gank and is pushed to turret... Well I guess nothing's going to happen mid, I have been waiting a while. Fine I'm coming bo- DAMNIT, he ganked just as soon as I left, and now top had a bad trade and b'd and nassus is wailing on his turret... BLARGMNKRNLGNL.

I can't juggle all these lanes at once!

junglerboy16Dec 2, 20141 votes

Oh the horror that is League ;)

DennnerDec 1, 20143 votes

When i gank as jungler i usually let the lanner get the kill, so im just building my income from cs and assist, but then if i gank, and the enemy out plays us what does my team say? "/All wow jungler so bad look at that 1 and 4 gg" people have to understand that since we dont get as many cs, and champ kills as they do our build will take time, and our damage comes from stacks we get with the FF (idk what the new item is, devourer?) and we wont always be able to make full builds, and level as fast as they can. The reason i dont take the kill is because i dont like it when im in lae and the jungler takes the kill when i can just do one spell and kill them.

Cale017Dec 2, 20141 votes

Yeah, I agree. I'm usually pretty giving with the kills in lane during a gank so long as I can see that an ally can actually get it. I don't even particularly mind if a support gets it, because it just means the team has more of a leg up, whoever is getting the kill. Only time I take it for myself is if I just flat out need a kill to start catching up, or if I doubt that the laner can secure it.

Although if I'm playing KhaZix or Rengar I can get a liiiiiittle greedy.

iainB85Dec 2, 20143 votes

Unfortunately unless you are playing a few select champions, you aren't going to have much impact as a jungler currently. All about dem lanes.

DeMenditeDec 2, 20143 votes

All hail the mighty mute button.

HarbardDec 2, 20143 votes

They really keep whipping junglers every season. Trust me, every game, the blame carries onto the jungler apparently. What they don't know is that the jungler needs farm, timing, correct path ganking, and not to forget the counter invading.

But that's pretty much impossible to do while someone overextends and dies then whines all game about the jungler..

summoner 11 R.I.P

Cale017Dec 2, 20143 votes

From an outside perspective, the jungle is the "easiest", because you don't have someone harassing you like you do in lanes. But people don't realize that while the lanes have a constant supply of minions, if someone is harassing you in the jungle you're going to fall behind harder. You have to wait for those camps to come back, not just for another wave of minions to walk back down.

There are SO many moving parts, and I'd be willing to bet that most of the laners in the community wouldn't know what to do with all of them if they're forced into the role.

We can't be everywhere. We can't help everyone. But we're doing everything we can to make sure you do everything you can.

BudupopsDec 1, 20142 votes

noob jungler

chide da junglerDec 2, 20142 votes

Diamond jungler here to let you know it never gets any better. The only consistent way to play is to play OP carry junglers, take the kills for yourself and do all the lifting on every part of the map. Sucks, but people get so lazy sloppy.

Oh, and if you're gold or higher and all your lanes lose, you're statistically better off to throw the game for the ff20 and just get in a new game with non-retard teammates. Cause if you put the effort in to turn it around they will probably re-throw the game after 45 minutes anyway.

Cale017Dec 2, 20141 votes

See, that right there is why I'm worried about trying to play ranked. You're always told that most of the stupid people are in the lower ranks/ELOs, and once you get higher it'll be better. But then a higher level player usually says that it's just the same.

That's my other issue. When I can tell that a match is doomed, I'll usually start trying to FF as soon as I realize there's no saving it. It might look pessimistic, but in the twenty minutes it takes to get to where surrenders activate, I can usually tell whether or not a game has any chance left of being won. But both friends and random strangers will refuse, saying to play the match through every time, and that only ticks me off when I called way ahead of time that we're going to lose, and I'm right nine times out of ten, but because of my teammates I'm now trapped in a losing match for another 20+ minutes, knowing that my time is being wasted.

I'm sorry but if they're teabagging our inhib turrets, have complete vision of my jungle, and are rotating as a group while my teammates are still pushing out to try and farm, I'm going to go ahead and assume the match is lost.

SlackerboyTCDec 1, 20141 votes

Pantheon What struggle?

76SummersDec 2, 20141 votes

Omg Was i Lucian?

Cale017Dec 2, 20141 votes

Nah lol, I don't recall seeing your name in that game.

ZanathaxDec 2, 20141 votes

I knew how this was going to end as soon as you said WW as enemy jungler. His Ult is completely broken with some of the new items. A not bad WW can 1 shot pretty much anyone in the game with his Ult right now. Cut the number of ticks in half and double each ticks damage and WW is pretty much fixed. There is literally zero counterplay aside from QSS and Cleanse. It's not really on that long of a CD either.

WW will be 100% pick or ban until his Ult gets redone. If you jungle and haven't practiced WW, you need to. He's grotesque right now. Horrifically OP.

It's not your fault OP. Really. Diana has 0 chance to win vs. WW in the jungle right now.

bradDec 2, 20141 votes

people who take the time and effort to put in the champion and item pictures need to be removed from this website

2pudge1cupDec 2, 20141 votes

"fk juggler no gank repot"

That being said, in most games where junglers are blamed they have done quite a bit to screw up. It's a nuanced role so it can be hard to objectively look at your own errors. Take a deep breath after some of those games and rationally look at what you can do different. Too often I see junglers blame laners then as soon as anyone says anything about them it's "hurr teem alwayz blaim da jangle." It goes both ways.

From your perspective this doesn't sound like one of those games, though I can imagine hearing a different story from your allies' perspective.