"You shouldn't be allowed to win fights by pure stats"

GigglesO·Sep 7, 2017·48 votes·2,537 views

I get this response every time I ask why we can't have tank items that give fighters/tanks/divers better stats.

So what is it when the adc builds

Please remind me again how that isn't just having better stats... because to me it looks like they are winning through stats....

Please, can I get a real argument to why we can't have tanks be tankier without giving them more damage.

Why can't we have slot efficient and gold efficient tank items?

75 Comments

ZT XperimentorSep 7, 201718 votes

I know right? Riot guts tanks and bruisers for being 'stat checks', when that's more or less all marksmen end up being, with a few exotic exceptions.

EedatSep 7, 201716 votes

Well they dont. They have to kite aroud and orb walk efficiently. For example, if I can get on to a item 3031 item 3046 item 3033 item 3812 item 3085 item 3006 Twitch as my main with item 3142 item 3147 item 3071 item 3026 item 3074 MonkeyKing item 3047 I will DELETE him off the face of the planet every single time.

The thing that holds me back is when things like Janna Lulu make it actually impossible to get to the ADC, let alone do any damage through 3k worth of heals and shields

Lock OnSep 7, 20172 votes

Janna is laughable. Lulu on the other hand is somewhat busted given she can deal a lot of damage early in the game and continue to be extremely useful utility-wise late game. She's basically a better Janna.

EedatSep 7, 20173 votes

Captain Cockblock is no joke

GigglesOSep 7, 201711 votes

Ha, I haven't seen an adc orb walk since season 3.... Right now they just stand there and nuke you. Or even better yet jump on top of you. Tristana

skyskee008Sep 7, 20177 votes

Oh look, another Morde main saying things that aren't true. You probably haven't seen an ADC NOT orbwalk since season 3. Yeah, I'm sure a Tristana jumps on your face for a 1v1 because she'll DEFINITELY win that 1v1 against a Morde /s

Balance team is biased but Boards aren't biased. Because the actual player base is ACTUALLY 50% morde mains.

GigglesOSep 7, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Oh look, another Morde main saying things that aren't true. You probably haven't seen an ADC NOT orbwalk since season 3. Yeah, I'm sure a Tristana jumps on your face for a 1v1 because she'll DEFINITELY win that 1v1 against a Morde /s

Balance team is biased but Boards aren't biased. Because the actual player base is ACTUALLY 50% morde mains.

I should pull up the replay for the game I Was just in where trist jumped into rammus and morde and knocked away rammus killed me, and then killed rammus.... sure thing buddy. You can say what you want...

Skins ProjectSep 7, 201713 votes

pull it up then...

GigglesOSep 7, 20171 votes

takes too much work to placate you. Try playing a tank that isn't mao, sedj, or zac/cho and just watch how fast they die. Also don't build any support items like locket. Don't build the damage tank items like frozen mallet or black cleaver either.

Skins ProjectSep 7, 201713 votes

Just pull it up, jfc. Show me how they didn't kite and still did it, damage means nothing by itself. SHOW ME THE TRISTANA 1v2ing a jugger and a tank, and WINNING without kiting.

"sure thing buddy. You can say what you want..."

skyskee008Sep 7, 20177 votes

Yeah it never happened unless he misplayed super hard and in either case he's not gonna bring it up.

Skins ProjectSep 7, 201710 votes

Legit if you can prove it say it... But what the literal fuck?

He's like I CAN DO IT, but won't???

Then says "Nah you guy suk not doing it u do it!"

??????

I responded 3 minutes after his reply, he just doesn't want to because it's bullshit and he knows it

StairCasexdSep 7, 20171 votes

I mean if Ashe, Vayne, Sivir, xayah, mf, Draven, Varus, jinx (pretty much every adc who isn't named twitch with ult or kog maw with his buff up) are casually just clicking in you without repositioning or anything, that's probably a fault on your side. I mean, sure you could play them like that but any smart play will take advantage of that, especially especially if they can out do you. That tactic usually only works if you're opponent is being stupid. E. G: me playing ashe late game, I Q a xin Zhao yet he decides to run away (and ends up taking more damage and dies) when he can insta kill me.

Come on man, don't over exaggerate.

MizayaSep 7, 20172 votes

Then you aren't playing with or against good ADCs, straight up. If you have the mechanics and can reduce the time on your autoattack animation for free, why wouldn't you?

... and you have a 48% winrate on Twitch, yet make it sound like ADCs take absolutely 0 skill to play and just stat check to win.

By the logic of a good portion of gameplay boards, this Kog would have gotten a pentakill after he flashed in this clip rather than get instantly punished and destroyed, which he did. https://youtu.be/GOuxtVOhAFc?t=4m45s

GigglesOSep 7, 20171 votes

Most of that was from before the assassin nerfs, adc re-itemization, and cait ect nerfs. I mostly stopped playing him earlier this year. However I did just have a 19/1 game on him just a few days ago. I hit 100% crit and just stood there and attacked. No orb walking needed.

MizayaSep 7, 20172 votes

If you're 19/1 you could probably get away with it. Back in the day (S2) I'd build two PDs, IE, LW, and old tiamat and maybe even BC and kill an entire team in 4-6 shots with ult. That's nothing new. If you're not ahead though, you won't be able to do much without positioning and autoattack animation efficiency.

Pumping IronSep 7, 20174 votes

Tristana/Twitch are strong but the real problem are supports like janna/lulu/soraka/

SomeOneButNoOneSep 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Well they dont. They have to kite aroud and orb walk efficiently. For example, if I can get on to a as my main with I will DELETE him off the face of the planet every single time.

The thing that holds me back is when things like make it actually impossible to get to the ADC, let alone do any damage through 3k worth of heals and shields

Supports are retarded right now. Ardent cancer & locket are an actual joke. And then you get a redemption on top healing 500-1k... ADC's are nothing special rn. Ardent Cancer is the problem. Tristana was dead until every Janna/Lulu rushed it. Now she's getting nerfed next patch lol.

FairyfleurSep 7, 20171 votes

Not to say Censer isn't an issue, but you can't ignore the fact that a lot of crit items were made cheaper. And, honestly, locket isn't an issue at all on any support. Locket is only a problem because tanks are making 2k shields with gargoyle.

FairyfleurSep 7, 20171 votes

You right everywhere else except about Janna and Lulu making 3k health shields, they don't. They may have a lot of good peel, but locket stoneplate tanks are what's doing that.

Meep ManSep 7, 20171 votes

That situation is literally just "Who shoots first?" as Twitch could probably decimate a Wukong with that build if he has full build with just few shots. If Wukong jumps on Twitch and can live for a solid second or two, he can kill Twitch. The main difference is Twitch has tons of range and Wukong has to make his way to Twitch. Regardless of if the support is present, the match-up begins in Twitch's favor unless Twitch is wandering alone through the jungle or has piss poor vision.

If Twitch has red buff, he basically wins because of the permaslow and his ultimate.

EedatSep 7, 20171 votes

You're kinda trying to tell a Wukong OTP how a fight between Wukong and Twitch goes down. Red buff does jack because the movement speed on my ult far outclasses the slow. I hunt ADCs. Free food.

zarxus1234Sep 7, 201712 votes

tanks are already super strong and you want to buff them....If they lost damage than sure make them tankier but as of right now they already do too much damage.

5050BSSep 7, 20174 votes

{quoted}

tanks are already super strong and you want to buff them....If they lost damage than sure make them tankier but as of right now they already do too much damage.

ONLY tanks with SHIELDS and with a Support who SHIELDS (and abuse AC riots balance teams stupid idea)

Crit damage is OFF THE WALL right now. ALL AD champs that smoke build IE first item.

GigglesOSep 7, 20178 votes

You either shield/heal, are a cc bot or you were left out in the rain to build pure damage and try and insta-nuke the enemy before they do you. I saw yet another full ap malphite today. He was more useful than had he built tank.

TheSingularitySep 7, 20172 votes

A few specific cases are very over bearing, being Zac Sejuani Maokai . I refuse to count JarvanIV Chogath as tanks, one is an assassin with a tanks CC and the other is simply busted.

Most other tanks have perfectly reasonable damage with the power curve they should, strong>good>weak, early>mid>late-game in comparison to other classes at the same phase of the game.

They need more costly, more powerful items.

Warmogs and randuins used to cost 3000 each. Frozen heart was actually cheaper for more stats, spirit was 2900 and they all had the stats to boot. However tanks have been given cheaper, weaker items which on the whole make them feel weaker as a result.

Old randuins has 800 HP+80 armor, 1000 HP warmogs, 100 armour on a 2500 ish frozen heart and spirit gave 500 HP+70 MR

lojicianSep 7, 201712 votes

I love playing a game where the entire balance team consists of biased adc mains who think it's completely acceptable that they can take one of their broken champions in any lane or even jungle and faceroll champions actually designed to be there by having better damage and infinitely better mobility.

GigglesOSep 7, 20175 votes

What really funny is the sheer number of upvotes and down votes that I'm seeing on this post. Its like "shit, hes onto us". Honestly as long as we have a damaged biased balance team we won't see true balance.

lojicianSep 7, 20173 votes

Just wait until riot nerfs the fighter jungle item because of ezreal.

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Ezreal

Athenes LuluSep 7, 201712 votes

item 3504 same dude

5050BSSep 7, 20179 votes

That is ALL the meta is. Abuse the SHIT out of riots stupid balance teams failings. That and cheating with Boosting/Scripting.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 7, 20171 votes

Man i have the feeling a LOT of people are actually using scripts. Not like some super obvious scripts but things like vision. I remember a few days ago as rhaast i was standing in botlane tribush below their gromp. It was pinked, no ward was before that. I didn't take any wave so no vision on me and i somehow doubt the enemy placed a ward at their t1 turret botlane. I was waiting for ezreal to push the wave back to ambush him. I was sitting in the lower half at the edge and not straight in the middle and he literally walked up to the brush completely focused and fired a Q into me. Someone who doesn't know what is in that bush would wiggle to it and maybe fire a random Q somewhere into the middle since this is the most common place. Nope he walks up focused to the bush in my direction, Q from max range and hit me. Very fuckin strange.

StairCasexdSep 7, 20172 votes

To be fair, I sometimes W random bushes as ashe instead of burning the E because people can be ANYWHERE. It's probably not some scripting master plan like you think.

IceKingChernobogSep 7, 20176 votes

Chogath item 3193 item 3800 item 3190 item 3047 item 3083 item 3065 Outplayed

VallalanSep 7, 20174 votes

adcs are a pure stat check class. that's what they do. they have reliable ranged DPS that is insane in exchange for fragility.

their fragility though is in question right now because support itemization is busted. once thats fixed I think ADCs will be finally healthy as they won't be too weak like earlier this year but they won't be everywhere like they are now.

KloqdqSep 7, 20174 votes

My favourite is how when we finally do nerf ADCs we will just have a new op back in the spot light because we never fixed the original problems in the first place. Just buff upwards instead of nerfing the strong.

GigglesOSep 7, 20172 votes

This is another problem in itself. They don't care to address actual issues with the game, and rather than commit to having slightly imbalanced match ups like vlad they just nerf it into obscurity so that it isn't played. "balanced"

KloqdqSep 7, 20171 votes

It is for sure what I'd label the main issue I see. They don't hit the strong and sit on it long enough to see how it effects everything. That or they just gut things until they are in a dumpster fire.

jwebb0113Sep 7, 20173 votes

cuz we dont want tanks to be "talkier" they talk to much as it is

GigglesOSep 7, 20173 votes

Edited, nice catch.

Xion The XIVSep 7, 20173 votes

It's because people will bitch that Tanks are too strong and need to nerf the tank and all Tank items. Look at cho'gath. A champion that gets to the point he is bigger then the walls and has to walk up to you to ult and his Q is slow as fuck and easy to dodge, unless in certain area's of the map. But since you can use Gargoyle and Ult he is too strong, when any range champion that rushes Executioners Calling will kill his lane pressure.

But yea we can not have that because Tanks will be able to use it and Divers will be able to use them Juggernauts will be able to use them. Because Tank items will be used by other champions that are not supposed to be main for they will nerf them into the ground. If any of the other classes can abuse it those items would be nerfed into the ground, except if ADC's can use it. If they can use it. It will be buffed and then given to Ranged only passive.

AFilthyCaitMainSep 7, 20173 votes

wtf so you want tanks to be hard to kill and be damage dealers? theres just no logic in that.

also item 3193 item 3190 gg ez

GigglesOSep 7, 20176 votes

{quoted}

wtf so you want tanks to be hard to kill and be damage dealers? theres just no logic in that.

also gg ez

I want them to be near impossible to kill and not deal damage. You get these things wrong....

SaiannaSep 7, 20173 votes

Rightclicking takes so much skill.

GigglesOSep 7, 20172 votes

Its exactly the same thing that people complained about in S1 when there was an extreme imbalance. Honestly S1-S2 possibly even into S3 was my highest number of pentakills on adcs I've ever gotten.

AirKingNeoSep 7, 20173 votes

Because stat check designs are unhealthy..

unless you're ranged...

GigglesOSep 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because stat check designs are unhealthy..

unless you're ranged...

Or you are the current balance team "we want this champ to be good"

AirKingNeoSep 7, 20172 votes

I'm pro stat check designs. Over-complexity in champions is ruining this game.

Just pointing out hypocrisy.

Sun Wu RyuumokuSep 7, 20171 votes

Please, can I get a real argument to why we can't have tanks be tankier without giving them more damage.

Is it a fcking joke ?? they already hit hard enough without invest in damage, don't go buff tanks. Its don't deserve ur goal to point BS state (adc state along supp) to justify anysht.

The Yetii RiderSep 8, 20171 votes

Because tanks should be tankier than fighters and divers. If divers are tanky "enough", then what is the point of a tank? Divers and juggernauts should be durable, but % health damage is the appropriate counter to these champions. They should be tanky through raw health, which is why we have so many AD health items ( item 3078 item 3071 item 3053 item 3748 item 3022 that juggernauts and divers want.