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Riot, do you have any plans to address marksman bullying creep in S5?

mi ramfan··5 votes·1,667 views

Ever since Graves, every AD carry has been a harder lane bully upon release then the one before them. If you count Vayne as a lane bully (she might have been when she released, I wasn't around for that one), then it goes all the way back to Caitlyn.

For those of you who don't have the list, I'll post it up here:

AsheSivir Tristana Twitch Corki were part of the original 40. Sivir and Twitch both got reworks later on.

In 2010, we got

Ezreal KogMaw Urgot MissFortune in order. Remember that Urgot was an incredibly strong lane bully before he was gutted (in fact, he was usually picked to shut down the enemy AD).

In 2011,

Caitlyn Vayne Graves were released. Graves was especially noteworthy for routinely going mid lane and absolutely crushing people. These are ADCs we're talking about.

In 2012,

Varus Draven came out, Varus with powerful early harassment and Draven with an amazing all in with his old passive bleed.

In 2013, we got

Quinn Lucian Jinx, all of whom had EXTREMELY strong laning phases on release. Quinn still sees time as a niche TOP LANER, Lucian is probably the hardest lane bully in the game at the moment, and Jinx is Jinx.

How do you intend to balance the inherently strong late game of ADCs when you just keep releasing AD carries who are stronger and stronger early? AD carries used to be weak enough that they needed supports to keep them alive against the "whatever champions we want on our team but who don't do well in solo lanes" bot lanes in Season 1. Now, AD carries are so strong that most supports picked are only there to secure the ADC more kills. The focus has gone from "if we get this guy to late game, we win" to "screw it let's just kill them a thousand times".

This really shows best when you compare the support roster in S1 Worlds and today. In Season 1, the most played supports were

Nunu Alistar Janna Sona Soraka Zilean (though Zilean was played more as a mid laner back then).

These are all supports that are focused on protecting the AD carry and helping them farm and trade. Then the nerf train steamrolled whichever support was most popular each patch for the next 2 years, and now we have

Thresh Braum Leona Morgana with a little Janna thrown in. All of these supports except Janna are focused on catching and killing the enemy AD; Janna only survives because of Zed/Yasuo/Fizz mid lane. Why not just take a tank or mage when your AD carry has the burst damage of a mid laner early game?

AD carries have been the problem for a long, long time. The AD carries who are strong early need to really be SIGNIFICANTLY weaker then the other AD carries late, especially if they have mobility. I mean, Kog'Maw may have the highest theoretical DPS in the game from ridiculous range, but nobody gives a shit when you've got Lucian who bursts enemy squishies 100-0 and can actually win lane (and usually does) or Caitlyn who just sits there going pew pew pew from outside your range while still having an escape.

Nobody with the late game DPS of an ADC should be a lane bully at the same time.

4 Comments

Trostani1301302 votes

I think this is great insight, and while I have not played League for long, I can see the problem. ADC's who are strong early game will be strong the whole game, since the role itself means you'll be fed late game. Champs you are weak early are strong late, this stays try with otehr roles and should stay true with every champion, and it should go the otehr way too. ADC's should only be lane bullies if it will deny them too much farm to be viable except to set up a kill.

Also, Braum does protect his squishy, he provides then armor and MR, as well as block shots, as well has having plenty of CC. Other than that, I think this post is spot on.

Done251 votes

I don't mind Marksmen having a strong early game. Just not when they also hit for 1000 dps come late game with no mana gates to keep them in check like a Mage would have to worry about. I wouldn't mind Riot removing critical and placing more emphisis on abilities like Varus's Blight stacks or Caitlin/Sivir's Q. Just anything more engaging/skillful than "click on then wait for them to die."

I don't mind getting outplayed by the Vayne who Condemned me into a wall. I mind when she walks up to me and I die because she critted twice in a row.

McAllister1 votes

I agree. The relative effectiveness of ADCs should start high and drop Lucian , start low and scale hard KogMaw or be pretty good throughout MissFortune (?) As it is, the late-game hypercarries aren't better enough to justify their poor early game.

SolusInCadere1 votes

Yea, I thought being a lane bully was the job of the support. Sit there in the bush, poke the ADC when they go to last hit, if you eat counter harras, you have heals, shields or are tanky, so it's okay

It looks to me like the role of the support is to instead let the carry do all the poke and last hitting, then secure a kill on the weakened enemy Carry with hard CC and pulls.

ADCs with strong early game are not ADCs, or at least shouldn't be, becuase they shouldn't scale into late game as well, becuase of their strong early game. They also denied the enemy team and ADC, so even if they were a little underfed, it was nothing compared to their lane opponent.

The problem with a weak early game is that it's hard to carry if you were shut down, so strong early game carries got more popular becuase they could shut down the older type of ADC, then still carry hard off of kills and free farm while their opponent was on death timer. Supports adapted to this new mentality of kill lanes.

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