Besides yasuo's ult, whats the diff of knock up vs suppression

All Day Tay Tay·Apr 6, 2017·5 votes·2,193 views

Title. Not reduced by tenacity, cant be cleansed. GP orange/qss can stop suppression, even tho its supposed to be the ultimate cc. I am just wondering

45 Comments

MarshbouyApr 6, 20175 votes

The difference is that suppression usually CCs the caster too : ^)

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20172 votes

Well kind of I mean, theres Malzahar, Warwick, Tahm Kench, Urgot, and Skarner. Between these guys Suppression really isnt consistent

Malzahar, and Warwick and Urgot all have to stop moving and are 'CCed' along with their target

Malzahar and Warwick though deal damage over the duration

Skarner and Tahm can still move, though Tahm moves really slow

Of all of these Skarner is the only one that can activate other abilities while also suppressing his target.

All Day Tay TayApr 6, 20171 votes

is tahm a suppression?

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20172 votes

When he eats someone yes, they a suppressed and 'nearsighted'

MarshbouyApr 6, 20171 votes

That's why I threw in the often. I knew there was some champion that had no issues when he was suppressing someone but, uknow, its skarner, he's never played. So I forgot the specific champ.

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

Except for that time he had a 86% win rate

MarshbouyApr 6, 20171 votes

######fucking what

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

Were you not here when they did the 'Juggernaut' class update? When they updated Skarner Darius Garen and Morde? And Skarner had a 86% win rate Morde had a 78% win rate and Darius had a 65ish% win rate? and Garen was trash, dont know how that happened but it did.

MarshbouyApr 6, 20171 votes

I was there I was just playing bot games and I was sub level 30

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

Ya lol thats what their win rate peaked at, skarner had even reached 76% within the first day after the patch. Basically if your team had Skarner and Mordekaiser and the enemy team didnt, it was statistically nearly impossible for your team to lose.

420 gramsApr 6, 20171 votes

Riot isn't always crystal clear with effect names though. Teemos blind is different than quinn or Graves; jax e blocks all basic attacks but not yasuo q which is "treated as a basic attack"

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20172 votes

Quinns and Graves say blind when they hit you but they are actually described as 'Nearsighted' and Jax E Blocks all basic attacks but only reduces the damage of AoE abilities by 25%, Yasuo Q is an AoE that is why it isnt blocked, while GPs Parrrley and Ezreals Mystic Shot are both fully blocked.

All Day Tay TayApr 6, 20171 votes

theres only 3 suppressions, so not many subjects to create a "most often" happens. need more test samples than 3 to create a theory. 2 of 3 stop the caster as well, and the one that isnt fully stopped, skarner, cant attack only move. so yes you are right that it disables them too, but they could just make a suppression that doesnt stop them

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

You fUrgot about Urgot,

Didnt expect you to know Tahm had a Suppress though, but like you read in my above post, there are 5 suppressions in the game

ZexvainApr 6, 20172 votes

Yasuo's ult is it's own special form of CC, that being "suspended". It can be removed by GP oranges, or if you QSS and use a movement ability, IE, Vayne tumble, flash, Riven E, etc.

All Day Tay TayApr 6, 20171 votes

didnt mean like what is yasuos ult, i mean that knock up procs his ult. Im saying besides that knock up LETS YASUO ULT, what is the difference

ZexvainApr 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=All Day Tay Tay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gTUZkXxv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-04-06T01:11:23.626+0000)

didnt mean like what is yasuos ult, i mean that knock up procs his ult. Im saying besides that knock up LETS YASUO ULT, what is the difference

Trust me, I know it's confusing, I made a post about this earlier today. The difference between a knock up and a suppression is simply this: A knockup is a brief form of cc that makes a unit unable to move, unless you QSS, then use a movement ability, such as flash. A suppression, on the other hand, is a form of CC that can simply be QSS'd, or GP's W. No movement ability required.

GULAG 4 UApr 6, 20171 votes

Don't forget abilities that make you untargetable, such as Master Yi's alpha strike, and Xayah's ultimate.

ZexvainApr 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Don't forget abilities that make you untargetable, such as Master Yi's alpha strike, and Xayah's ultimate.

If you're asking what counters it, any form of DOT ability, such as red smite or ignite.

GULAG 4 UApr 6, 20171 votes

Eh, just adding content.

RákãñApr 6, 20172 votes

Some suppression can be item 3140 like Malzahar ult I believe. You can't QSS a knock-up.

ZexvainApr 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Some suppression can be like ult I believe. You can't QSS a knock-up.

You can QSS a knock up, you just have to use a movement ability right after, like flash. It's been used by faker in the LCS. He got kicked by Lee Sin, so he QSS'd, then flash right afterward. It made it to where he didn't go the full distance of the kick, and instead, flashed to "avoid" the distance. You can look this up on YouTube.

RákãñApr 6, 20171 votes

Oh, didn't know that. That's pretty cool. Welp, If I knew that few days ago, lives could of been saved. lol

ZexvainApr 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Oh, didn't know that. That's pretty cool. Welp, If I knew that few days ago, lives could of been saved. lol

^_^

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

However using a QSS to get rid of a Malz or WW suppression does not stop the damage from happening, just the CC.

However Olafs ult will remove the CC and the damage tether from Malz and WW ult unlike any other CC removing ability.

RákãñApr 6, 20171 votes

You can stop the damage by walking of it if I recall correctly.

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

Maybe Warwicks, but Malzahars eye lazors will stretch to the ends of the earth and follow you I know, ive tried, the only way to stop his damage is to CC him, nothing else will do.

RákãñApr 6, 20171 votes

Yeah, only with WW, not Malzahar it seems.

WalkingInACircleApr 6, 20171 votes

Knockups also stop dashes.

Xivilai AnaxesApr 6, 20171 votes

If you get knocked up you can sue the guy for child support

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

Actually the 'strongest' CC is technically charm in terms of what it does to players hit by it, not only do you suffer the effects of being stunned (Cant activate abilities, control your character or attack) you also have to walk towards whoever charmed you.

GP orange (and dont forget Alistar ult removes CC on himself as well) and QSS can both stop Knock ups as well, BUT GP orange and QSS only remove the CC effect, if the supression comes with damage, like that from Malzahar or Warwick the damage will still happen even though you QSSed

Also the longest Knock up is Sions fully charged Q at 2.25 seconds, the longest knock up that doesnt require a charge time is 1.5 seconds. The SHORTEST suppression is Urgot with 1 second and Urgot doesnt want his suppression to be long, the shortest suppression where the main point is the suppression is 1.75 seconds for skarner who remains fully mobile while he CCes an enemy and drags them wherever he wants to go.

In other words the longest knock up that doesnt require a charge is still shorter than the shortest suppression where the point is the suppression, rather than what happens after the suppression.

All Day Tay TayApr 6, 20171 votes

tenicity stops charm tho, not knockup or sup

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

Youre not wrong, but the effect that charm has on people is a stronger effect than knockup or Suppression other than Skarners suppression which is basically like a stronger charm.

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

Oh also, the only tenacity in the game now is Merc Treads and Elixer of Iron, so if you arent a champ that uses Elixer of Iron (face it you wont build Elixer of Iron on and ADC or APC) you will only have 30% tenacity which means Ahris 2 second charm still lasts 1.4 seconds which is only .1 second less than the longest knock up in the game (other than Sions fully charged Q)

All Day Tay TayApr 6, 20171 votes

theres the mastery for tenacity, and irelia has her passive (which veries based on how many ppl vs how many ppl)

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

The mastery for tenacity is in the Resolve tree, and is in the second to last tier right before the keystone which means that you have to be a champion that can use a resolve keystone (aka a tank someone who you dont really want to aim charm at anyway)

Irelia only gets 10% CC reduction in an even fight and tenacity stack multiplicity So if she has the boots and an even fight then the best she will get is 33%? 36%? not even 40% thats for sure so it will still last at least 1.2 seconds which is longer than most knock ups seeing as how most knock ups are 1 second. However We can argue that Irelia will use elixer of Iron so she could probably get it down to like 1 second maybe .8 seconds. Sure if she is out numbered she can get it really low but if shes that outnumbered shes screwed even if she gets CCed for .5 seconds.

Besides shes just ONE champion who is particularly good against CC. The champions that you are supposed to be aiming you charm at are the ADCs and APCs, the people who DONT use the tenacity boots in the first place, the people who DONT get to use the tenacity mastery, the people who DONT get the elixer of iron.

The people you are supposed to be hitting with your charm are no different than the targets that you should be going for with the suppress or knockup. You arent going to waste your knock up CC on the tank Sej, you want to hit that juicy adc, you arent going to WW suppress the Amumu, unless its for peel you want to hit that ADC. You dont suppress and pull the Irelia into your team with Skarner, you go for, you guessed it the adc.

So since your CC target is all the same regardless of what type of CC it is, charm is the one that lasts the longest with the strongest effect. Even if reduced by the boots which is all anyone is really going to be able to do to defend themselves is still one of the longest CCes in the game.

All Day Tay TayApr 6, 20171 votes

From the wiki The highest persistent level of crowd control reduction in the game can be achieved by Irelia with 3 nearby foes for the maximum benefit of Ionian Fervor, any item bearing Tenacity and five points in the mastery Swiftness for 67% reduced crowd control. With an Elixir of Iron, she can achieve a further 4 minutes of 75% crowd control reduction, and if Cleanse is used on top of this, Irelia can achieve 3 seconds of 91% crowd control reduction, which is the highest reduction possible in League of Legends. With this level of reduction, the longest crowd control in the game, Nasus' Wither, lasts only 0.43 seconds.

Ferrous OxideApr 6, 20171 votes

And since when Does irelia use the Resolve tree? and since when does Irelia use cleanse? and if Irelia is surrounded by 3 enemies then she is probably dead anyway regardless of CC. Once again, that is ONE champion, in fact its one champion that has a 6% play rate compared to ahris 22% play rate irelia is the 49th most played champ compared to ahri who is the 7th most played champ. So not only is there only 1 real champ that can really ignore the charm chances are you are not going to be playing against her.

So my point still stands, charm is the strongest CC in the game. Though I suppose I should correct that now as Ahri isnt the only one with a charm anymore and Ranaks charm is not as strong as Ahris.

Though I do have more points to add onto why Ahris charm is the strongest CC in the game, every single knockback/up other than vaynes requires you to be in melee range, every single suppression except Urgot requires you to get in melee range (even if WW can fling himself halfway across the map) Ahri doesnt have to put herself in any danger to use her CC. So I stand by my point Ahris charm is the strongest CC in the game.

All Day Tay TayApr 6, 20171 votes

cho knockup, janna knockup, malph knockup (is ranged initially).

DrCyanideApr 6, 20171 votes

item 3140 can cleanse Suppression

Akali is SO HOTApr 6, 20171 votes

Displacement vs Lockdown

Edit: Read the title as knockback whoopsie.

RevaliApr 6, 20171 votes

Yasuos kockup ulti isn't actually a suppression, its a mix between the two, its a 'suspension' in which he holds you in the air, you can cleanse it and you will still take the damage, but he'll still be in the animation.

YoungSirJ0eyApr 6, 20171 votes

Knockups can be cleansed with the summoner spell, or any other method of cleansing. Sort of. It's weird, and I'm tired, so I'm not gonna bother explaining.

DunkinNoobsApr 6, 20171 votes

You can remove the moveblock on a knockup with mikaels/cleanse/GP W/Ali ult/etc. You'll still be prevented from casting abilities, but you will be able to flash.

LankPantsApr 6, 20171 votes

If you QSS a suppress you have immediate free movement. If you QSS a knock up you have to burn a mobility spell like flash to be able to move. That's really the only difference outside of Yas's ult.