An Open Letter @Riot—Before You Knee-Jerk Nerf Sated Devourer.

junglerboy16··3 votes·1,024 views

So there has been a lot of community outcry over the new "OP item on the rift", Devourer/Sated Devourer, mainly in the form of "Omg, Vayne so broken" or "Why is Yi so STRONK?" and similar posts. Really, this item is in all certainty the best iteration of a "farm jungler" item you've created yet Riot, since it encourages farming but also has a stack limit (about time you got that in :D) while having the final transform be tailored to the champs that ought to use it and not being good on laners when it shouldn't be. Also, it has innately built in scaling in that it isn't too strong on its own but scales excellently with other items. In light of that Riot, I ask that you do a few things for us before going in and nerfing this item like so many people are asking you to.

  • Please hold off on nerfs for a patch or two to allow people time to adjust and remember how to counter power farm junglers.
  • If nerfs are needed, nerf champions that are exploiting the item first rather than the item (i.e. nerf jungle Vayne before nerfing Sated Devourer if she's actually breaking the game).
  • If you are going to nerf the item, do it in baby steps (don't just go and lop off 20 damage from the item or force it to stack twice as long for the transform).

Right now, this item is being exploited mostly by fringe abuse cases such as Vayne proccing sliver bolts every 2 hits instead of every 3 and similar situations. Champions that synergize too effectively with the item (such as Yi) could be nerfed in simple direct ways, such as a lower damage on their innate on-hit effects or nerfs to other steroids.

If you do feel the need to nerf Sated Devourer, I have a few suggestions for ways to go about it (each with its own pros and cons):

  • Nerf the base on-hit damage back to 25 and increase the number of stacks needed to transform to 35.
  • Pros: Leaves the item effectively unchanged once completed, but is less powerful up front and requires more time to attain its full power.
  • Cons: Effectively encourages harder AFK farming, might over punish on-hit+AS reliant junglers that clear slowly (i.e. Warwick).
  • Nerf the number of attacks it takes to get the double on-hit proc from 2 to 3 (this is my personal favorite).
  • Pros: Nerfs abusive users such as Vayne and Kalista.
  • Cons: Nerfs everyone who uses it, some harder than the abusers this nerf would intend to target.
  • Nerf the base AS from 50% to 40% (more of a last resort if other nerfs fail).
  • Pros: Reduces the power of Sated Devourer as an independent item.
  • Cons: Nerf to all users, even the ones that aren't "OP", forces a more AS centric build and removes the viability of "Devourer then tank" style builds.

Thanks for reading, Riot, and please make sure to be thorough in your decision making about if/how to nerf Sated Devourer.

Thank you, A Jungle main hopeful for good news Soon™.

12 Comments

Mandang02 votes

The problem with nerfing the champ instead of the item is that you're locking that item into all of their future builds. If you balance a Vayne/Yi/Shyvana around the assumption that they're abusing Sated, then any other build that doesn't abuse Sated will be nerfed too, and will be guaranteed to be suboptimal.

junglerboy161 votes

No, it would be things like nerving Vayne so she couldn't use Runaan's. That didn't lock her into building it, it forced her away from building it. I don't mean to ask for nerfs to things like Vayne's damage (except possibly reducing the cap on her true damage to monsters) I mean nerving the way it interacts with devourer. We know Riot can differentiate between on-hit effects and on-attack effects, and for all intents and purposes, Vayne silver bolts are supposed to be on-attack effects, but because they aren't coded correctly she can exploit Sated devourer in an unintended way.

DrCyanide1 votes

If Vayne built Runaan's, without Runaan's ever being altered, Vayne would never be able to proc her silver bolts, as the last champion hit by the secondary attacks would be different from the one she was attacking, moving her proc at random every time there were 2 units close together.

When Riot started this season, they said that they wanted to take an approach of "change the item, not the champion". This is a prime case of where this approach is right. You can either change every single champion which has an "X# of hits does something special" ability, or you change one item.

junglerboy161 votes

You don't get it do you. They altered the way her silver bolts acted so that she couldn't use Runaan's to stack on several targets at once, which is the exact point of what I'm saying. Her silver bolts are an on-attack effect and could easily be recoded to not interact with Sated devourer at all without changing anything about her gameplay in any other role or build.

DrCyanide1 votes

Can you site your source on where Vayne was changed for that? Because the Wiki records no such change being made to Silver Bolts.

Regardless, Vayne is not the only champion that would need to be changed here. Your proposal is still going in the illogical direction.

junglerboy161 votes

No, she was never changed for it, she was coded that way initially that made Runaan's not work on her (in addition to not allowing her to stack it multiple times on several enemies at once).

My point is that there are very obvious cases where Riot has changed the way a champion's kit works (in Vayne's case, well before her release) so that it doesn't exploit something gamebreakinig.

We know Riot can code on-hit and on-attack effects differently (even Sated Devourer itself is an example of this), and all I'm saying is that an easy way to get Vayne out of the jungle is to change her Silver bolts into an on-attack instead of an on-hit. Boom, no more Devourer Abuse, standard Vayne sees absolutely NO change from current functionality.

Those are the types of nerfs I'm asking for, not "gut Yi, Vayne, Shyv, etc." but rather "recode these interactions so that they don't work with Devourer in an exploitably broken way when the majority of champs using the item are not exploiting it.

RISE Shlack1232 votes

If an item makes several champions overpowered, then the item, not the several champions, needs to be tuned. You address a problem at its source.

girlscantorgasm1 votes

[deleted]

junglerboy161 votes

You know, the fact that you've only played one game since the patch shows that you are basing your conclusion off of a group of 10 individuals who are likely unused to playing around the item and as a result are coming to the knee-jerk conclusion that the item is broken rather than considering that hard ganking can put the enemy team behind far enough that there's nothing their devourer jungler can do to make a comeback.

Koloss111 votes

The item just needs to be nerfed, like everyone is calling out for. It was a good idea, but it's too strong on several champions and as a result people are abusing it like they do everything that's broken. Cinderhulk was a good idea for tanks, and needed a nerf so it got it. Now devourer desperately needs a nerf already and it will surely get it as well. It's too strong plain and simple.

Pretty Dhizi1 votes

You're not even 30 and spouting out dumb shit.

jesus fuck man. The item IS broken. Yi should NOT be able to do 400 true damage in 1 second. You haven't played any matches to even see how disgustingly broken it is.

Yi. Udyr. Jax. Shyvana. All champions are abusing it for free wins in ranked queues. And in normals, it's nearly non-competitive how quickly people die fighting it. It's murdering game balance. It needs to be sent back to PBE for testing. It can come back later when it's fair.

junglerboy161 votes

Been playing nearly 2 years now (joined in the Jinx patch), and also, you must be new to boards if you didn't know that about 1 in 10 accounts here are sub 30s which are alts. Get smart about boards before spouting your own "dumb shit".

Yeah, I hadn't played any matches, and yes I think the item definitely needs a nerf (probably the change from 2 attacks to proc up to 3 attacks would do it best), but there are simple fixes to champions that shouldn't be jungling that could be applied without affecting their alternate build styles or making them dependent on the item, such as making Vayne's silver bolts an on-attack affect instead of an on-hit effect (essentially in dumbed down english for you, it wouldn't work with devourer anymore but wouldn't change at all for a non devourer Vayne).

It was a pleasure responding to your ignorance, come again when you have a real argument.

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