Was Balance Team Sleeping During Mage Update?

Cibreca··5 votes·669 views

What do these champs have in common?

Zyra Leblanc Veigar Fizz Ekko

They delete you in one combo.

What's the point of buffing AP items, buffing AP ratios and buffing base damage?

Also why not have a hybrid (defense and offense) item update? Since there are so few decent hybrid items and there definitely isn't enough items to fulfill a niche.

Mages are playing like Assassins . . . and worse these mages have a single-target damage with AOE range.

e.g. between Fizz's R and E he has potentially 190% AP ratio, 774 base damage and to top it off, temporary invulnerability. So say if he had 600 AP which isn't even high in this update, he has 1900+ damage, in two spells, never mind that his other spells are point-and-click.

And Zyra, a big problem, who today 6/13, is the support with the highest win-rate and third-highest damage. She has 175% AP ratio, 730 base damage, and minions with 22.5% AP ratio. She's all AOE.

If I'm not a tank, building MR should be viable without making me lose too much effectiveness. Otherwise, even a Zyra supp could one-shot my Jhin, who, btw, won't likely one-shot the Zyra support!

Can the balance team wake up? Being deleted in-game by Veigar and Leblanc is not the best experience. Also, what the point of making AP affect towers. AD doesn't go up to 1000--unless you're Jhin or Zed--so why are these champs, on top of decimating your entire front line, also solo-pushing?

This is not balanced. Maybe shorten some range, but it's not balanced.

And while at it, can you guys look at the crappy ults in the game, that don't compare to Fizz's, Veigar's or Zyra's?

Fizz throws at a range of 1275 an ult that attaches to an enemy champion, slows them by 70%, makes all his attack stronger, and does 100% AP ratio on top of 450 AOE damage . . . but Kog'Maw, Kindred and Quinn do what? Also Jhin's ult should have execute crit every attack--or make him shoot through people. It's hard enough.

13 Comments

71883083DEL11 votes

to be fair fizz actually isn't a mage, he's a sea nymph [slayer-jinx-wink]

Cibreca1 votes

True. But when he puts on a item 3089 and holds a item 3027 he looks a lot like Veigar .

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Ekko and Fizz aren't mages though....

and LB unlike ahri is mostly assassin with almost no mage fall back thus just an assassin.

Veigar always did that, sadly people don't want him to have a better AP scaling cause he earns it a tad too fast and zyra well yea zyra needs a touchup.

Cibreca2 votes

I know they are not technically mages, but this mage update, particularly in items, really buffed them.

Used to be you'd see an AD Fizz and he'd outplay you where you would write "GJ" or an Ekko tank who'd run into battle and cause a storm. But now it's just one-combo dead.

The items were so buffed, there's no such thing as an AD Fizz or Tank Ekko. It's only super AP one-hit FIzz or super AP one-hit Ekko.

And I don't know if you played against LB recently, but when you do, you'll see what I mean by one-hit.

I think Veigar used to do one-hit, but that was unfair then, and now, he can do it to 2 people . ...

And yeah, Zyra was really who prompted me to post this. She's like the Soraka of Damage Supports.

Michael Sykes1 votes

Hey, LeBlanc actually became weaker after 6.9. Not because of the item changes, the current meta is more about tankiness and sustained damage. Fizz became stronger since he can reach maximum cdr easier but is going to be nerfed in 6.12, and Zyra just has been buffed a lot.

Cibreca2 votes

Even if tankiness more meta; only tanks make decent tanks.

I get if you draft pick, you can see a LB and pick a Malph, but if you Blind Pick or if you're an ADC, LB is pulling your pants down.

Tanky-meta is indicative of too much damage flying around, IMO.

Michael Sykes1 votes

this is true, but I am talking about both Swain and Vladimir. Additionally, Viktor and Anivia offer more sustained damage, which works better against those tanks.

Of course blind pick is a different thing. But be honest, blind pick sucks xD

Cibreca1 votes

Those four champs are outside of my elo. Haven't seen any in any normal games this last few patches. Admittedly, I haven't played as much, but I just don't see them. I don't even know if I ever saw a Swain in game (outside of AI) in any of the patches. So maybe those champs are great, but they are rare in my low tier. Plus, they aren't one-hitting like Ekko or LB. Like you say, they are doing sustain.

And I think blind pick is better than draft pick. Draft is TOO meta. You kick butt as Irelia in blindpick, then some AP Alistair counter-picks you and you're sitting wondering what's going on.

I get that the game is balanced around draft (particularly ranked), but blind--which I feel is more commonly played--should have some love too. Plus, one-hitting champs isn't niche (like Riot likes to emphasize.) When Rengar one-hits, it's ok, he gave you a warning. When Zed one-hits, it's annoying, but it looks sweet. But when Zyra support one-hits, it's too much.

Michael Sykes1 votes

I usually ban them, and don't get me wrong, I am in lower elo too. But then we got champs like Maokai, Irelia, Annie etc which are way more effective and have well opportunities to outscale those assassins.

I agree with you regarding the blind pick balance, but I think that way more people are playing draft pick since the championselect is so good. Additionally, it prepares you well for ranked games.

Cibreca1 votes

I really just don't like the long time it takes to start a game in draft.

But for me, the only horrible thing is a one-combo kill; particularly from a support.

I don't mind a support killing me: fed is fed. But when Zyra pushes top and as the ADC I rush to protect it, then she deletes me and pushes down my tower . . ..

Michael Sykes1 votes

yeah, what Zyra (and some other damage supports do) is the job of the midlaner, and that should not happen when the game (or in this case, the botlane) is supposed to be healthy

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

I know they are not technically mages, but this mage update, particularly in items, really buffed them.

Used to be you'd see an AD Fizz and he'd outplay you where you would write "GJ" or an Ekko tank who'd run into battle and cause a storm. But now it's just one-combo dead.

The items were so buffed, there's no such thing as an AD Fizz or Tank Ekko. It's only super AP one-hit FIzz or super AP one-hit Ekko.

And I don't know if you played against LB recently, but when you do, you'll see what I mean by one-hit.

I think Veigar used to do one-hit, but that was unfair then, and now, he can do it to 2 people . ...

And yeah, Zyra was really who prompted me to post this. She's like the Soraka of Damage Supports.

I think the LCS would disagree that Fighter/Tank Fizz/Ekko is completely gone. And to a point, people were asking for their tank builds to not completely outstrip their assassin builds. Speaking of which, they would probably be the first to abuse the Hybrid items you want so much. Since it would allow them to build both defense, and damage. On kits with Diver aspects to them. (Because you know, their Assassins.)

Although, the LCS probably would validate your complaint about Zyra. About the one who can go APC on a supports budget, and still take the support role. (And doing so simply by buying all the Magic pen Ever)

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

I just hate fizz's double E with hourglass otherwise he's beatable(Really Really want that nerf to happen sooner but at least it's finnally happening).

Ekko he's actually fine except for his W if they reworked that (and saved that ability for a different champ who isn't an assassin) ekko's assassination would be easier to deal with but if he lands it there's nothing you can do.

Veigar again just needs a slight trim on ap scaling maybe a 2.5/2/1.5/1/0.5 second unique CD per champion CD would fix it enough that's only issue I see his champion ap farming too quick early.

Zyra just needs a tad toning base wise but boost scaling wise her early is really good a long with a powerful late game just want that touch up on her for a easier early vs her.

LB is same as she ever was don't see any issue there she's simple to handle.

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