How is Mordekaiser supposed to cs in duo lane against ADC and supp?

Cibreca·Dec 19, 2015·4 votes·1,144 views

Yeah I saw a few pros pull it off--but seriously, he's not even remotely ranged.

Can't his e have higher range at least? At least to cs.

24 Comments

Malicious MetalDec 19, 20155 votes

You have to try and trade/poke in order to establish lane dominance.

Fail and you're going to have a bad time.

CibrecaDec 19, 20151 votes

Against two other champs tho?

What's a good matchup for him?

So far I fought a Soraka and Draven-- lost lane; a Ashe and Alistar--lost lane; a Leona and Kalista?--lost lane.

How do you win a lane against 2 champs? When either both can be ranged or one can cc you down.

Malicious MetalDec 19, 20156 votes

You don't win against two champions.

You win WITH your support against them.

Leona, Blitz, Nautilus. Someone that's tanky, wants to brawl and has a lot of pressure. You don't play like an adc, farm. farm. farm. farm.

You go HAM and try killing them over and over.

CibrecaDec 20, 20151 votes

Hmm... I did not know this. Thanks.

Still hard when they can farm, poke and kill you easier than you they.

Malicious MetalDec 20, 20153 votes

Yeah, it does suck but riot insists on making mord a duo laner, thus resulting in these frustrating situations.

DeathBurstDec 21, 20151 votes

I disagree. I spend at least until level 6-7 just farming and mostly ignoring them, except if I can reach them to load my shield faster. I brawl only if I have a clear advantage (gank incoming, level advantage, dragon ghost, etc.). You should be able to outfarm a traditional lane simply with the fact that you push faster and can repeatedly shove them under tower, except maybe against a Sivir/Morgana.

KnightOfEloHellDec 21, 20151 votes

This. Yes. You got it bro; I do the same.

BastionKrossDec 21, 20152 votes

Just add to this: The support really does matter. Unlike most marksman, who can safely farm most of the time no matter who is supporting them, Morde needs a support who will get up in the enemy player's faces if he wants to get some CS. The best time for Morde to CS is when his opponents have taken so much damage they have to back and play passive, so he's free to waddle up in melee range and start last hitting seriously.

I remember one time I took Morde bot and had a support Janna . The discussion went something like: Janna Don't worry, if they jump on you, I'll cc them so you can kite. Mordekaiser I'm melee, I don't want to kite. And I want them to jump on me. Janna Uh oh...

That was... not a fun laning phase for either of us. Thank god for the jungler.

Maximum MordeDec 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MzlAY7nl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-19T17:03:26.687+0000)

You have to try and trade/poke in order to establish lane dominance.

Fail and you're going to have a bad time.

Seconding this. With Morde, you pair him with someone beefy like Alistar, Nautilus, Rammus, Leona, Thresh, Blitzcrank, or even a killer like Riven, Jarvan, Xin, you get the picture. You then proceed to beat the shit out of the enemy laners to the point where you are like 3 levels ahead of them because they had to back or die multiple times, while you also CS. Then they just can't even touch you until they catch up late game. You need to leverage that early lead as hard as you can to close out the match before they start catching back up.

DeathBurstDec 21, 20151 votes

This is absolutely cheesy and not viable in competitive games. How do you manage to win the early trades, if your opponent has half a brain and just play safe? You can't, since you have no range and that the tools you have that are supposed to compensate for that are not available yet. you basically can't fight at all before level 4, and even then it's a close call. Now, when you are level 7 it's another story, and you can destroy pretty much any lane. But how do you manage to reach level 7?

Maximum MordeDec 21, 20151 votes

Which is why his winrate and play rate has plummeted. However, it can sometimes work, you just can't blindly pick it like you can with any other ADC. For instance, enemy team picks Sona, or some other relatively squishy support, your team picks Naut/Blitz Thresh Support, you can then freely pick Morde and go for the pick off on Sona. You win the early trades by your support sticking with you so you can use the healing from your W and Relic shield plus Mordes shield to come out ahead. You can win most all ins from the very first level so long as you started W and can actually get onto a target, even though it's been nerfed a ton.

It isn't easy, and he's even more Binary than ever before after his rework. You either dominate from the start or you are never relevant. Why do you think us Morde mains hated it so much?

DeathBurstDec 21, 20151 votes

Yeah, but it's much more reliable and safe to just farm until you get some advantages, and it's possible with much more lanes combinations than just Blitz into Sona. I disagree that the way you play Morde is the best way to play Morde bot. It's how he was played before, but it's not how he still should be played now....

I have won regularly with a Sona support on my side, and Morgana is not too bad either, if you know how to adapt.

Maximum MordeDec 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but it's much more reliable and safe to just farm until you get some advantages,

I'm gonna have to say that there is a huge catch to this statement. It's only safe and reliable if your team's mid or top has great lane siege potential, and the enemy has poor siege.

By picking Morde, you choose to go for a champion that has relatively poor objective taking power compared to others in the same Marksman role. If you let the enemy ADC be on equal footing with you gold wise, you pretty much lost as Mordekaiser because that enemy team has the ability to take objectives that you just don't have.

ZephyrDrakeDec 19, 20153 votes

he has a shield so he barely takes any damage unless the enemy all ins him and that's what Morde wants since he can just Q your face in if you do

CibrecaDec 19, 20151 votes

From what level forward? He doesn't seem to be able to cs. And his shield is never really strong until he has a full item, in my experience. It's like 25% max health at most, which is like 130 damage--or 3 basic attacks (never mind that he's fighting two champs.)

DeathBurstDec 21, 20151 votes

From level 3. Keep in mind the shield generates much faster if you hit champions than if you hit minions.

Also max W, not E. W is crap in solo lane, but in duo-lane where you always have your support, the W is the grail: generates more shield, pushes waves faster, heals you in the end.

KnightOfEloHellDec 21, 20151 votes

Grab cdr and AS early. I rush nashors for AS to get off q, AP for damage, and Cdr for ability spam. The CDR and AS keeps up shield. My Mord build is listed sonewhere on this thread.

Just play safe early, ALWAYS. use w and e as last hitting tool. ALWAYSshield and heal wgen you can, if they come too close.

Watch out for Sivirs and Tristanas

DeathBurstDec 21, 20152 votes

I'm currently 29 wins for 17 losses on Mordekaiser bot, so I think I've a fairly good grasp of it.

Start Relic Shield. More sustain, and your support will like you.
Max your W. It heals, a lot, and it push waves faster than E. It's your main farming tool.
Communicate with your support. It's really important, as much as with Kalista, or when you are Leona and you want to engage.
Stay safe in the brush until the first minions get low. Then go out with your W and your support next to you, use E just to load your shield a bit, kill the minions with W, and re-activate it to gain health back on the last 2 or 3 minions.
They will poke you. You don't care. Between your shield that you will naturally load by farming minions with W and the heal at the end, you have more than enough tools to shrug the poke.
Your support ALSO gets the heal from W. While you farm, he should be rather aggressive, even if the trade is slightly unfavorable, because he will get the heal in the end to compensate.
E gives instantly 15% of your shield (on top of the normal conversion from damage done) per champion hit, and the heal from W is 4 times stronger against champion compared to minions. If you have to take one more auto-attack to get in range of them and land the spells on them, it's still worth it most of the time.
In the beginning, just farm and endlessly push waves under their turrets. You should be able to outfarm them, just because their turret will take some of it. Remember to ward the river, but you shouldn't be pushed too much anyway: you push so fast that each wave should reach their turret before the next one arrive, and every wave should meet in the middle of the lane. Rince and repeat.

The only lane that seems to be completely unwinnable to me is Braum support, unless you have Morgana support yourself. His passive is so strong, and since you are melee, you have absolutely no way to avoid it. That being said, depending on your ELO, the Braum player may not realize it and let you farm safer than he should, and I managed to win a few matches with Braum in front of me.

Good supports for Mordekaiser are:

Sona: can shield+heal you when you go in for farm, poke them back if they focus you instead of her.
Morgana: can shield you (her black shield prevents the stun from Braum), help you push waves faster with her area and her CC is good for when you finally want to fight.
Leona: good CC for when you want to fight, W on her let you close in after she engaged and automatically procs her passive. She can even E+aa+Q+aa then retreat while you farm, and if you reactivate your W just before she retreats, she will end the trade with as much life as she begin with.
Thresh/Blitz/Nauti: good CC, and threatening enough to scare most of the pokers away. Thresh is especially good, his E is hard-counter to Leona's E and his lantern can give you the mobility you lack, if he positions properly himself.

Zyra can work but is not ideal. Bard is probably bad. I never tried with Nami or Lulu, but I can see some good points with them.

KnightOfEloHellDec 21, 20152 votes

Bliz supp is the best eith adc Mord. Leina, Thresh, and Naut are also good.

I play duo lane Mord like solo lane Mord: I play safe early and farm, gaining shield by e when the enemy is too close. I time my w for when I need it. Use deactivate w and e as last hitting tools, and remember to capitilize on your heals.

Have they poked you and are close? Be sure to turn on w when they approach, and deactivate when you need health. ALWAYS SHIELD.

I play a strange Mordekaiser, but carry super hard MOST games, and I normally go top, lol.

In duo lane, i start amp tome, ward and pot. Start w. When there is an engage, get your ass close to your supp and glip w asap. E when you can. Than q when you have it at lv. 3. Run ghost/flash or heal/ghost for mobility and escapes(much needed) as well as stickyness when you know 3 qs will kill the enemy.

HYPER FOCUS FARM; MORD IS ITEM RELIANT.

MY TYPICAL GODKAISER BUILD: (core): Nashors Rylias Guinsoos Distortion Swifties (situational): Dmp/SV Ludens(AP and movespeed and multiple procs from ult)/Deathcap/BotrK(fast and powerful qs)/Liandrys(OP burn on ult with DFT)/WotA(kick ass healing)

VictoryDance96Dec 19, 20151 votes

This is the reason I love to play Mordekaiser in the top lane against a melee like Darius or Garen... if you max his E first you out range them and can even push them out of farm, not to mention make them afraid of becoming a tanky ghost!

Mordekaiser "All things must die... yet I live on."

Edit:

Sorry, haha. To answer your question, you have to use your E constantly to gain the shield, since they will be trying to hit you. This will help you survive and let your adc farm, since I am assuming you are not carrying in the bot lane with Mord.

CibrecaDec 19, 20151 votes

Isn't he supposed to be the ADC? I think as a supp he offers nothing but poke. No cc, no engage, nothing.

I was under the impression that he was supposed to replace the marksman. That's not the case?

VictoryDance96Dec 20, 20151 votes

It is hard for him to be the "APC" because of the poke, as you mentioned, but also because he cannot handle any cc.

BastionKrossDec 21, 20151 votes

Morde should never be a support. Ever. If you play Morde in the bot lane, it should indeed be in place of a marksman on the understanding that your team will probably take a marksman mid or top or jungle instead.

Morde's W passive only functions if you're the one farming, and he brings nothing in the way of utility to help a marksman. Morde support is designed by Riot specifically not to work, and that's one of the few things his rework got right.