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Off-Meta vs Unviable

Vicarious117··8 votes·829 views

So I understand some people like to play champions that aren't really part of the meta, for many reasons, one of my main champs is Aatrox and he's definitely not in the meta! But there is a difference between playing a champion that is off meta and playing a champion in a role that they rarely perform well in.

For example, just had someone lock in a Gnar jungle... now I get that Meteos has been wrecking with it, but that's freakin Meteos, not a silver/gold wannabe. I looked at this kids history cause honestly I'd love to play Gnar jungle if it worked! But after playing him in ranked 16 times his average kda was roughly 2/10/3.... that means you do not play that champion out of his position until you get better. I do not care if it's cause you need to practice or if it's cause that champion just does not fit in that position, with a kda like that after 16 games you need to stop trying it in ranked!

Also it didn't look like he'd even tried Gnar jungle in a normal match ever, he just jumped into ranked with it cause "Meteos did it!"

I mean I have played the likes of Thresh and Braum in the jungle, Rengar ADC, or AP Skarner in lane in normal matches, cause that's a normals match, and I've actually done just fine quite a few times! I just don't get why some people are so adamant to play something "unique" in ranked when they obviously have no idea how to do it, especially when it's not even recognized as viable in a specific position right now.

So yeah if you're playing like Kassadin ADC or something and someone questions you on it don't just call them a "meta follower" or w/e, cause you're not just breaking the meta, you're playing something much weaker then others in the same position and it's very unlikely you'll do as well, so until you can PROVE you can do it keep it out of ranked.

21 Comments

ZeeDrakon1 votes

Agreed. For example MF is out of the meta but quinn is unviable as adc. Lux is out of meta but midlane nautilus is unviable etc ;)Kass adc belongs in a third categorie, since it has no chance to do well and is therefore a troll pick IMO

usul12022 votes

Quinn is absolutely not unviable. If you go to diamond+ then yea, she'll lose quite a bit. but below that, it's a skill matchup, especially with her recent bug fixes.

ZeeDrakon1 votes

Well im p1 so this might influence me but i can stomp quinn in lane 8/10 i guess. And her beeing able to win doesnt mean its a skill matchup

IcyPepper1 votes

And her beeing able to win doesnt mean its a skill matchup

...how is it not?

ZeeDrakon1 votes

Because she has good matchups and bad matchups and not everyxthing is a skill matchup that is winnable LOL. just because caitlyn can win against graves its not a skill matchup o.O

usul12021 votes

Quinn is played less than most ADCs for several reason. on the flip side, i think she's on the FTP rotation more than any other adc. a good number of bad Quinns exist, because they play her like a throughput adc, which she isn't.

Also, if someone is considered a weak champion, then them winning is absolutely a skill match up, unless they're a hard counter, which i don't consider Quinn a hard counter to any other adc.

ZeeDrakon1 votes

quinn isnt a hard counter to any other adcs, but its not straightly a skill matchup just because its winnable. skill matchup means no champ has a clear edge and skill decides. quinn is at the worse end of most matchups, making her winning require more skill, but its not a skill matchup...

usul12021 votes

But see, i disagree that she's on the bad end. I'll admit that I'm not a great player, I'm still fairly new. but MMR has put me in a fair spot in normals, and i win ~50% of my games as her. The issue is that people don't play her enough to know how she's properly played, or just don't care and try to play her like an ADC anyway.

Especially with the E buffs she just got, I'd put her on even footing with any adc.

ZeeDrakon1 votes

She might be on even footing during the laning phase but her kit is just not made for adcs, since 60% of her damage lies within her ult and the valor spells, that are MELEE, which is like the DIRECT OPPOSITE to what adcs normally do. I dont know wheter positioning doesnt matter where you play or if you just build her according to her kit (IE a bit tankier and not full crit/attackspeed like normal adcs) but if the second one is true youll inevitably have the problem that you deal less damage than any other adc with a build that allows her kit to be properly used

usul12021 votes

This is exactly what I've been saying. you can't play her like a standard ADC. you will lose the 8/10 games if you do. Treat her right, and groom the bird, and you'll do just fine.

ZeeDrakon1 votes

Okay so i appearantly misunderstood you, sorry.

But then again, thats the exact point i made in the first place and the argument to why shes not viable as adc (but as toplaner). you CANT build her like a usual adc, because her kit doesnt allow it. so you have to build otherwise, and then you lack the damage that an adc needs.

usul12021 votes

Just because you don't play her like an ADC doesn't mean you don't put her in the ADC position. She has plenty of damage, and the AS and damage steroid from harrier and ult is actually pretty damn nice when itemizing, its just that you must be much more conscientious about trading and when to all in.

Vicarious1171 votes

Honestly playing Quinn as an assassin in bot lane essentially removes a crap ton of your teamfighting presence mid-late game, since you're essentially a suicide bomber with Valor form.

This works as a top laner so your team still has an adc to keep the damage up from a distance, if your jungle is a tank usually, but as an adc you severally cripple your team by playing Quinn and building with her best item path, that of an assassin.

usul12021 votes

Okay, clear the winds here. She is not an assassin. her execute is pitiful. Her passive has no effect when in valor (burst) form. her base defenses are quite sad, and wouldn't allow for the bruisery-ness needed for that kind of assassin. she's a bursty proc based ADC who excels in skirmishing duels and anti-(adc)carrying.

Vicarious1171 votes

I agree that she doesn't fit the definition of assassin well and doesn't match up to the assassination ability of other champs like Zed and Talon, but you still build her like an assassin and play her like an assassin who targets the other adc.

But that's why she's not so great atm, you basically try to do an assassins job as a non-assassin, or you build her like a typical adc and you try to do what other adcs can just not as well, again.

I'm not saying she's unviable, just to make that clear, she just doesn't fit the role of adc in this current meta very well.

usul12021 votes

............... I just said building her like an assassin is why people think she's unviable. Flat trying to be an ADC is better than an assassin. This right here is why people say

{quoted}

Well im p1 so this might influence me but i can stomp quinn in lane 8/10 i guess.

because that's not how you build or play her. she is a unique champion in that she doesn't fit a specific role well, and is, hence, non-meta. Very viable, but non-meta.

Vicarious1171 votes

She has two viable item paths basically;

BotRK -> Ghostblade -> LW -> etc

or

IE -> Phantom -> BT -> etc

Variations ofc, but those are the main item choices when thinking about buying at the shop. If you build the first, you are in fact building her like an assassin, those are dueling and catching items made for assassins and duelists (which are basically still assassins atm). If you build the second path you're building her as a basic ADC and she won't perform as well as any other ADC until late game, if she didn't fall too far behind ofc.

If you're building anything drastically different then that then you're gimping yourself.

Yandere Carry1 votes

there is a different beteen Meta picks, viable picks, AND doable picks. DOABLE picks aren't the same as Viable

Darth Pixy Misa1 votes

Just play Quinn like a Assassin and build her like Zed.

Vicarious1171 votes

That really only works as top lane Quinn where you can avoid harass more easily, which is an off meta pick and is viable as a counter to certain (most) top laners, not something to be considered unviable.

usul12021 votes

This doesn't work. Her execute isn't good enough, and her base resiliances aren't high enough to destroy anyone quickly enough or survive long enough. It might work sometimes, but it frequently won't, ESPECIALLY in team fights, which is when you need that adc power.

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