Morello, are there any plans for Zillean?

Rinky Dinky·May 24, 2015·6 votes·1,129 views

I really feel like he needs some buffs/changes.

He just doesn't have a place in this game right now. He can't support. He can barely mid. What is he supposed to do?

10 Comments

Duke AnaxMay 24, 20151 votes

I have just played some Zilean support, so far I don't see the issue.

DisasterSolaMay 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fqQEEL53,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-05-24T12:36:21.747+0000)

I really feel like he needs some buffs/changes.

He just doesn't have a place in this game right now. He can't support. He can barely mid. What is he supposed to do?

Hah. Haha. HAHAHA.

Have you played against a zilean? Its stupid how much damage, safety, and zoning he has. Last game i played against one he did the nidalee thing and was just chucking bombs at us forever because the cost for them was so low.

Rinky DinkyMay 24, 20152 votes

Um, no.

DisasterSolaMay 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fqQEEL53,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-05-24T13:08:02.031+0000)

Um, no.

Massive AoE bombs with good scaling. A spammable strong movement speed buff. Low CD mega zoning with a long duration. a potential 5-man 2 second stun.

And not to mention his iconic GA ult.

Rinky DinkyMay 24, 20151 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ahiUhEvE-permaslow-passive-point-and-click-harass-that-can-crit-aoe-global-ult-huge-heal-cleanse

Permaslow passive, point and click harass that can crit, AOE global ult, huge heal + cleanse, and an aoe buff that boosts his allies stats with a passive that increases his AD and MS.

See? If you only name strengths, the functions of a kit and neglect to acknowledge or speak about the champions weaknesses and counterplay all together, you can make anything sound overpowered. And this is one of the worst champions in the game currently.

Please be mindful of this when discussing champion balance because it's hard to have any real discussion with anyone when they refuse to accept or acknowledge basic counterplay and weaknesses. If you refuse to do this, it's plain as day you aren't trying to actually discuss anything but that you're trying convince very narrow minded people that you're right with shortsighted skewed information.

Thanks friends

You were saying?

DisasterSolaMay 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fqQEEL53,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-24T14:02:40.938+0000)

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ahiUhEvE-permaslow-passive-point-and-click-harass-that-can-crit-aoe-global-ult-huge-heal-cleanse

You were saying?

Cute. Difference is... Zilean does all of the things i listed, and the way they interact in the game isnt fun to play against.

I explained why Zilean was strong - possibly even to strong - in his specific role of support. All you did was "Lulznope nub". Welp, if all you want are sheep to kiss your ass and agree with you, ya should probably go join up with Amy's Baking Company.

Fact is, in actual play, Zilean is extremely difficult to lane against if he is in a duo lane. His intense zoning and good harass lets him push enemy champions away in the early phase, whilst his spammable speed buffs and long stun allow him to escape easily after being caught out. His low cost bombs being both very damaging AND on relatively low CDs makes his harass game very strong. And he can just toss bombs out and hope you walk over them because they stay around for something like 5 seconds.

Rinky DinkyMay 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Cute. Difference is... Zilean none of the things I listed in practice, and the way they interact in the game is hilariously fun to play against because he does nothing in lane.

I explained why Zilean was weak - definitely the worst champion in the game- in his specific role of support. All you did was "Lulznope nub". Welp, if all you want are people with brains to discuss and bring up valid claims, ya should probably go join up with ~~Amy's Baking Company.~~ People with game knowledge

Fact is, in actual play, Zilean is extremely easy to lane against if he is in a duo lane, His non existent zoning and awful harass lets him feed enemy champions to hell in the early phase, whilst his oom inducing speed buffs and impossible to land/impractical stun allow him to feed easily after being caught out. His high cost bombs being both very damaging AND on relatively low CDs makes his harass game very strong on paper, as his bombs have an awful hitbox and are hilariously easy to dodge, and he can just toss bombs out and hope you disconnect so he can land them because they stay around for something like 5 seconds.

Thanks for making several key points for me.

Next up we have his trash range coupled with how squishy he is, meaning he puts himself in danger every time he tries to harass to the point where your bombs are actually useless. Zero reason to pick him over the likes of Sona, Nami, Soraka, Lulu, etc. Gangplank support offers more reliability than Zillean.

His mid laning is slightly better than his supporting (Which is sad in itself), but is still awful due to how easy he is to shove in and bully early game. Even then there are better picks for the midlane if you want a utility mage, such as Lux, Galio, Orianna, Lulu, Kayle etc.

Zillean is simply put a weak champion right now. He has no place in this game. He has zero reliability due to his bombs randomly locking onto minions instead of champions, and even if you land the first one, the second one will simply lock onto someone standing next to your initial target. And, once again, even if you do manage to set up a stun, you are probably dead.

You are forced to go into E range to even have a chance of double bombing, and while you do that, your enemy will simply kill you. "oh but my ult'". Great, you just used your revive on yourself, excellent. Your team appreciates that.

Its not like any other champion has an AoE stun that is easier to use, and then that said champion has a better kit in all anyways Sona Annie Morgana

As a support, you either max his bombs and be annoying for 2 seconds early game, then totally useless from 7 minutes onward until 30 minutes ingame, or you max E, be totally useless in lane, and be decent midgame if you didnt get rofl stomped which is exactly what will happen.

He feels awful to play, is unrewarding, and is just a shell of a champion. They nerfed his ult, passive, his Q's damage and reliability, auto range, armor, and some even say nerfed his E.

He sits at the lowest pickrate in the game. 0.17%.

On paper sure, he looks amazing. But in practice? He's annoying and unrewarding to play, and even when you play perfectly, all your thinking is (I had to try that hard.... for that? Why didn't I just play (List any other support or utility mage here)

khorneyMay 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fqQEEL53,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-24T15:03:50.896+0000)

Thanks for making several key points for me.

Next up we have his trash range coupled with how squishy he is, meaning he puts himself in danger every time he tries to harass to the point where your bombs are actually useless. Zero reason to pick him over the likes of Sona, Nami, Soraka, Lulu, etc. Gangplank support offers more reliability than Zillean.

His mid laning is slightly better than his supporting (Which is sad in itself), but is still awful due to how easy he is to shove in and bully early game. Even then there are better picks for the midlane if you want a utility mage, such as Lux, Galio, Orianna, Lulu, Kayle etc.

Zillean is simply put a weak champion right now. He has no place in this game. He has zero reliability due to his bombs randomly locking onto minions instead of champions, and even if you land the first one, the second one will simply lock onto someone standing next to your initial target. And, once again, even if you do manage to set up a stun, you are probably dead.

You are forced to go into E range to even have a chance of double bombing, and while you do that, your enemy will simply kill you. "oh but my ult'". Great, you just used your revive on yourself, excellent. Your team appreciates that.

Its not like any other champion has an AoE stun that is easier to use, and then that said champion has a better kit in all anyways

As a support, you either max his bombs and be annoying for 2 seconds early game, then totally useless from 7 minutes onward until 30 minutes ingame, or you max E, be totally useless in lane, and be decent midgame if you didnt get rofl stomped which is exactly what will happen.

He feels awful to play, is unrewarding, and is just a shell of a champion. They nerfed his ult, passive, his Q's damage and reliability, auto range, armor, and some even say nerfed his E.

He sits at the lowest pickrate in the game. 0.17%.

On paper sure, he looks amazing. But in practice? He's annoying and unrewarding to play, and even when you play perfectly, all your thinking is (I had to try that hard.... for that? Why didn't I just play (List any other support or utility mage here)

Agreed he has awful harass because his bombs are not reliable like they used to be . to me as of right now he works as a solo lamer better then a supp. He is weak because of the bombs I would gladly trade in the stun skill shot for the more definite single target spell

khorneyMay 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Hah. Haha. HAHAHA.

Have you played against a zilean? Its stupid how much damage, safety, and zoning he has. Last game i played against one he did the nidalee thing and was just chucking bombs at us forever because the cost for them was so low.

Um zil q is ultra stupid I would trade the possible stun for the definite single target q any day of the week

TenryushinMay 24, 20151 votes

Here is my take on a few changes that could be explored and would be interesting: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/dYBervck-ok-new-zilean-idea

I agree that the bombs have a high skill cap now and require him to stay at a distance. A little CC and he is done for. His passive is basically negligible now but is still think the xp boost needs to say there.

I really do hope the balance team is reading.