And Eve's Stealth has to be bad because of her Charm.
These two points in her kit are mutually opposed to one another (sneak up on people VS oh hai guys I'm ganking now 'mkay?).
If either of those components are ever going to feel good to use (without absolutely breaking the game ala OLD old Eve) then one of them is going to have to go away. Either the Stealth or the Charm needs to be cut from Eve's kit.
Dope Solo13 votesW - make enemy walk in the opposite direction.
Rebonack9 votesW - make enemy walk in the opposite direction.
Isn't that what the live version of Eve's W does already?
"W: Target walks toward their tower/nearest peel source and chills there for five seconds."
OyddAWqJ5r6 votesSounds like an effective tool for making your opponents move predictably.
TitanAnteus10 votesEve's charm isn't bad. It just has too much counterplay. Oh it's coming, gotta run, or gotta hind behind minions to body block that Q. Since she no longer has any engage like her old W and her stealth range is insane, her ganking potential is bad. If she had bonus movement speed shrouded and longer range on her E, her kit wouldn't feel as wonky.
Rebonack13 votesEve's charm isn't bad. It just has too much counterplay. Oh it's coming, gotta run, or gotta hind behind minions to body block that Q. Since she no longer has any engage like her old W and her stealth range is insane, her ganking potential is bad. If she had bonus movement speed shrouded and longer range on her E, her kit wouldn't feel as wonky.
See, that's the thing.
She lacks all those things because she has her Stealth and Charm. It's been straight up confirmed by Meddler. If she didn't have a Charm no one asked for, the rest of her kit could actually be pretty great still.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesNo, it'd go back to having the same problem old Eve had. MS alone is no way enough to compensate for the lack of Utility, and so you'd have to shift more power into her damage as a result, resulting in Old Eve's pattern. It's also a incredibly huge assumption, to say that Eve can't have a longer range on E, something that has some actual skill expression for the player and counter play.
Levu11 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm7lZBLs,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-22T01:52:34.635+0000)
No, it'd go back to having the same problem old Eve had. MS alone is no way enough to compensate for the lack of Utility, and so you'd have to shift more power into her damage as a result, resulting in Old Eve's pattern. It's also a incredibly huge assumption, to say that Eve can't have a longer range on E, something that has some actual skill expression for the player and counter play.
Old eve didn't have a problem. She just needed a visual updade and a new R.
Rebonack8 votesOld eve didn't have a problem. She just needed a visual updade and a new R.
We were even told by Rev that this was going to be more of a modernization ala Warwick rather than a completely new champ ala Sion.
Guess Riot changed their mind?
ModAcademy Kayn8 votesTake a look at old Sion, and now look at new Sion. They are entirely different champions, in terms of playstyle, character, and theme.
Now look at old Warwick vs New Warwick.
They still play as a diver, they still look like a werewolf, and they still have the character of a feral hunter. Now look at Evelynn vs New Evelynn.
https://www.buytra.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/gift/16-10/league-of-legends-3d-model-for-youth-hero-evelynn-diy-paper-models-79860.jpg?itok=86AAIFcI https://lolstatic-a.akamaihd.net/frontpage/apps/prod/rg-evelynn-reveal/en_US/225e290f807d02696f99c4ddb7df41a6a7bd20f9/assets/vids/evelynn-poster.jpg
They still play as an assassin, they still look like a lust demon, and they still have the character of a sadistic kinky killer. Just because that their kit changed more than you wanted it too, doesn't mean that they didn't have a Warwick level rework. They didn't completely reinvent the character like they did Poppy or Sion. It isn't even close.
Rebonack5 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm7lZBLs,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-22T06:29:16.027+0000)
They still play as an assassin, they still look like a lust demon, and they still have the character of a sadistic kinky killer. Just because that their kit changed more than you wanted it too, doesn't mean that they didn't have a Warwick level rework. They didn't completely reinvent the character like they did Poppy or Sion. It isn't even close.
Lore Original Eve: Expensive hired killer, exact source of her unique magic unknown. Lots of room to explore character growth. New Eve: Literally a demon that feeds on pain. Motivations are purely instinctual. Has about as much character depth potential as a puddle.
Personality Original Eve: Wants to murder some folks and have a fun time doing it, moves like this in heels despite difficulty. New Eve: Cringey innuendo jokes. Has no trouble moving like this in heels.
Champion Archetype Original Eve: Diver through and through. Like all Divers, she could be built more damage-y or more tank-y. New Eve: Mage that can also be an Assassin when her Ult is up.
Playstyle Original Eve: Ambush predator looking for the perfect moment to strike. Plays with her food, kiting with Q and W if she can't attack head-on. She's in control. She's untouchable and she knows it. New Eve: HAI GUYZ IMA GANK NOW, IS THAT OKAY?
Damage Pattern Original Eve: Okay burst with strong sustained damage follow-up. Mostly front-loaded due to Ult and E. Not very Ult-reliant. New Eve: Massively telegraphed damage, burst and then no follow-up. SUPER Ult-reliant.
Team Niche Original Eve: MASSIVE early game pressure, can build reactively depending on team needs. Solid late game. New Eve: Pre-rework WW-level early game pressure. Pretty good mid. Typical Assassin uselessness late. AP is the only real option.
Appearance Original Eve: Smurfette with hair-dye and questionable fashion sense. New Eve: Likes body-paint.
So yeah, no, she changed quite a bit.
WW got one new ability. And it was the least interesting ability he had. Everything else kept its old function (healy chomp, OnHit passive, running down injured foes, pounce Ult) though the execution was altered.
Eve got a new sustain passive in exchange for SUPER nerfed stealth. She lost her swiftness in exchange for lockdown CC. She lost her sustained damage in exchange for more burst. She lost her initiation Ult in exchange for a focus-break and an execute. Perma-stealth is the only thing that survived the transition.
ModAcademy Kayn5 votesYou're nitpicking the details to suit your argument.
Lore doesn't count, because even Warwick got a very sizable change to his backstory. The only "Relative" lore we had to go on was the lore given as a Placeholder until the VGU came, so it's hard to say that was even anything solid. Before that, all we had was "oooooohhh so mysterious, she kills people because she was hired too, and is kinky for some reason".
Character is still the same, and we're not talking personality. If you look at her from the perspective of a new player, both are going to see a lusty killer, the only real difference being Old Eve was closer to BDSM. You also can't take personality from just the jokes.
Read all her Voicelines, she kills because it makes her feel good, because it's orgasmic to make others suffer. She's a demon, she doesn't abide by human standards of "personality". What she does, she does for entirely due to her self-nature, not due to her culture or youth.
Eve, originally, has always been an assassin from her first design. The only reason she was a diver, was because her assassin nature was nerfed into the ground. They returned her to her original nature, an assassin.
You're over flavoring her playstyle from before, in order to discredit the newer version. You ruin your credibility as someone who can offer actual critic about new Evelynn.
That niche was toxic and unfun for the people playing. VGUs are meant to help the champion themself, and the champions who have to play with them. Her "build viability" is once again ONLY because they nerfed Assassin Eve into the ground from the past.
She changed as much in appearance as Warwick did. She's still sexual, still half naked, and still rocks some awesome hair. Just like how Warwick is still werewolf-like. She just doesn't look like a BDSM reject.
Just because Warwick got slightly less major changes, doesn't mean Eve didn't have a Warwick scale update. It's still the same, you can't exactly go 100% similar to another project, else you limit yourself in solutions to solving problems.
Rebonack2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm7lZBLs,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-22T08:05:46.103+0000)
You're nitpicking the details to suit your argument.
Oh god, people focus on the facts that support their argument to make rhetorical points? How awful.
- Lore doesn't count, because even Warwick got a very sizable change to his backstory. The only "Relative" lore we had to go on was the lore given as a Placeholder until the VGU came, so it's hard to say that was even anything solid. Before that, all we had was "oooooohhh so mysterious, she kills people because she was hired too, and is kinky for some reason".
Lore counts in terms of how easy it is to make new stories about someone. The old Eve lore was really vague, yeah, but it easily could have been expanded on. A contract killer who's strange, though still human, is someone that can be explored and have their character grow over time. A monster like Pennywise the Dancing Clown, however, really doesn't lend themselves to that. When (if) Eve pops up in other lore, expect her to be a challenge for someone else to overcome.
- Character is still the same, and we're not talking personality. If you look at her from the perspective of a new player, both are going to see a lusty killer, the only real difference being Old Eve was closer to BDSM. You also can't take personality from just the jokes.
Read all her Voicelines, she kills because it makes her feel good, because it's orgasmic to make others suffer. She's a demon, she doesn't abide by human standards of "personality". What she does, she does for entirely due to her self-nature, not due to her culture or youth.
The new Eve torments and kills because she's hungry. That's really all there is to her. There's no true malice (and spite) to what she does.
- Eve, originally, has always been an assassin from her first design. The only reason she was a diver, was because her assassin nature was nerfed into the ground. They returned her to her original nature, an assassin.
Eve has never been an Assassin in terms of design. No more than Pantheon is an Assassin. You could build her more heavily focused on damage rather than durability, but that's true about any Diver. Until the most recent remake, Eve has never had a focus-break, which is the kit component that most strongly resolves between Assassins and Divers. Instead, she had durability boosts (heal originally, then a shield) to allow her to weather some degree of focus.
Strong target selection, poor ability to break from combat, good sustained damage, lower (relatively) burst, and durability tools to help stay in the fight. These are all hallmarks of a Diver and they've all been components of Eve's kit since 2009. Simply building pure offensive gear on a Diver doesn't make them an Assassin. It makes them a really squishy Diver.
- You're over flavoring her playstyle from before, in order to discredit the newer version. You ruin your credibility as someone who can offer actual critic about new Evelynn.
That was meant to be a humorous contrast, but I'll spell it out plainly. The old Eve was an ambush predator. Pouncing on someone from out of nowhere (like Twitch still does) was her whole thing. That was the gameplay hook for her. Eve's lack of target access (outside blowing her Ult) and her new W doesn't support that hook. Loudly announcing your presence to the whole lane is about as far from an ambush predator as you can get.
- That niche was toxic and unfun for the people playing. VGUs are meant to help the champion themself, and the champions who have to play with them. Her "build viability" is once again ONLY because they nerfed Assassin Eve into the ground from the past.
And this here comes down to a difference in design philosophy. Riot has been on a crusade for a long time now to add outplay potential to everything that previously lacked it, and it has resulted in class balance being thrown massively out of alignment. Burst (and CC for that matter) has become far too conditional, spread out over too much time, or simply watered down. As a result, classes Burst is meant to check are centralizing the game too strongly.
I've been saying it for years now. Focus should be on 'is this fun to play as?' rather than 'is this fun to lose against?' because no matter how awkwardly Riot twists kits around, losing is always going to be unfun. Making a kit 'fun' to play against simply means you're removing agency from the person playing that champ. The fun of the scrub who complains about something being unfair should not be valued over the fun of the player taking advantage of a strong mechanic to win the game. At least not if this game is meant to be competitive.
- She changed as much in appearance as Warwick did. She's still sexual, still half naked, and still rocks some awesome hair. Just like how Warwick is still werewolf-like. She just doesn't look like a BDSM reject.
I agree with this one, actually. Riot did a good job of updating her look while maintaining her feel.
Just because Warwick got slightly less major changes, doesn't mean Eve didn't have a Warwick scale update. It's still the same, you can't exactly go 100% similar to another project, else you limit yourself in solutions to solving problems.
I can tell we're not going to agree here because I'm operating on 'what Eve was' while you're operating on 'what Eve ought to have been' and those are two pretty different starting points.
ModAcademy Kayn2 votesOh god, people focus on the facts that support their argument to make rhetorical points? How awful.
No, you focus on the very teeny specific detail that fits your argument, while you ignore the rest of what is also going on. You focus on what Eve was, instead of what Eve was originally in her initial design, which is an assassin. The entire point of a VGU is to bring them back to their original design, but refined.
You focus on what Eve had, and ignore how much she lacked. She had problems more than just her ult. She was an assassin forced diver due to the extreme amount of nerfs the assassin playstyle has gotten, and you use that as a basis to why she should be a diver.
You use an already vague and undeveloped Lore as decently enough established character. Hell, we don't even know if she's human, all we know was that she was mysterious and likes killing people. Once again, it looks like you think "Well I don't like the New version, so the Old Version has to be better", without actually looking at Old Eve's problems.
And finally, from what I've been reading, I think you fall into the same small group of players that complain about a VGU. You keep trying to play New Eve the same as the old version, and become disappointed when it doesn't work. You hold the Old Version so high on a pedestal, that you can't change how you play because you think that is how she should be played.
Try this. Don't use her passive stealth to get close to a target. Use it to get behind them, or in a spot where you can predict where they'll flee once they see the mark. Coordinate with allies to start a fight first, which you then swoop in to help, especially if they try to run once they see you coming, your Q easily out ranges a flash.
From what you've been saying, it sounds like you just haven't changed your playstyle to accommodate the changes that were made. Eve may be a little weak at the moment, which might also influence your opinion on the rework. Give it time, adapt.
Rebonack3 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm7lZBLs,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-22T17:53:44.590+0000)
No, you focus on the very teeny specific detail that fits your argument, while you ignore the rest of what is also going on. You focus on what Eve was, instead of what Eve was originally in her initial design, which is an assassin. The entire point of a VGU is to bring them back to their original design, but refined.
You focus on what Eve had, and ignore how much she lacked. She had problems more than just her ult. She was an assassin forced diver due to the extreme amount of nerfs the assassin playstyle has gotten, and you use that as a basis to why she should be a diver.
Going to try this one more time to see if it sticks.
Evelynn.
Has never.
Been an Assassin.
Ever.
I've been playing her since open beta. I've seen every single change Riot has made to her. At no point in her history did she have a focus-break (defining Assassin trait). At all times she had durability tools for shrugging off focus paired with high target selection and sustained damage (the MO of Divers).
Building a Diver with nothing but damage items does not make them an Assassin. Building Jman or Vi with pure damage gear does not make them Assassins. Building Diana with pure damage gear does not make her an Assassin. Building old Eve with pure damage gear did not make her an Assassin. When Deathfire was still around, Eve was able to go pure damage with a high degree of success. Riot didn't like that, and they nuked Eve's whole kit with nerfs to prevent her from going glass cannon. This didn't remove any Assassin-ness from her. It just forced her to be more conservative with her build like Divers typically do.
Glass cannon AP Eve existed for, what? Three patches? Four, maybe? For the other seven years of her existence, she was always a Diver.
She was not an Assassin any more than Pantheon building nothing but AD items and getting exploded instantly is an Assassin.
The new Eve is an Assassin-
-when her Ult is up.
When it's down she's a Mage.
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesShe has no traits of a diver either.
She doesn't have a gap closer other than a movement speed boost, one that resets on kill, almost like an assassin. Camille, Jarvan, Irelia, Vi, and Jax do.
She doesn't have any natural defense steroids outside of her ult, which before the rework, was not how it was originally designed. Jarvan, Vi, Hecarim, and Camille do.
She doesn't do diver level damage while building tanky, nor has any CC of a diver. Jarvan, Irelia, Jax, Vi, Hecarim, and Camille do.
Read Riot's blog about Evelynn, they very clearly have seen her as an assassin for a long time, but the assassination playstyle has always not been healthy. Diver Eve has always been the compromise between Eve not being Urgotted.
Her literally biggest theme, is being sneaky and roaming around the map invisible. How does this not scream assassin. The archetype that likes being sneaky, and murdering people, for the heck of it.
You don't make out her lore to be an assassin, and then make her gameplay a Diver, not purposefully. That's a disconnect between Character and Gameplay. Look at every other Diver, and they are rough, tough, big people. People who look like they'd actually take a hit physically, and keep going.
Eve does not. You are making her out as something she has never been, even with outdated lore and appearance as an example.
A Bepi1 votesI agree with your point +1 even her lore said she was one of the most expensive assassins and was even called the "widow maker" which means she kills and leaves widows to agonize for their loss. Diver eve was extremely unhealthy because it encouraged tank builds amd hybrid eve was not healthy as well like riot said, its just easier to have her play as an ap assassin rather than both.
I also agree that most people keep playing eve as a diver when they should be going behind the target unseen and killing them before they even have time to react which is what assassins already do and even old eve played a lot like an assassin because she could burst targets really easily, the only reason she felt like a diver at some points was because of her ult and her semi tanky builds 
Edit: im also glad her stealth was nerfed pre 6 because that means she doesn't have to pay much power to budget around her passive and now she can have a good assassination ult which i completely love
Muzét1 votesGoing to try this one more time to see if it sticks. Evelynn. Has never. Been an Assassin. Ever. I've been playing her since open beta. I've seen every single change Riot has made to her. At no point in her history did she have a focus-break (defining Assassin trait). At all times she had durability tools for shrugging off focus paired with high target selection and sustained damage (the MO of Divers).
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2345003
Because Evelynn has always been the consummate assassin in League of Legends, we really wanted to preserve that bloodthirsty feeling of stalking an enemy champion.
Additionally, we've modified Ravage so that it not only functions as a nuke but also provides an Attack Speed bonus to help her quickly take down her victim.
Evelynn also faced challenges participating in team fights. To give her some additionalstaying power when entering the fray, Evelynn can employ her new ultimate ability Agony's Embrace.
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesOkay, see, now you're just ignoring the problems old Eve had.
You can say that's "Risk and Reward", but no other Assassin plays that way save Rengar, and we all know the mess he is. Every other assassin has a way out if they mess up, it's why they're assassins, they're meant to be slippery. Because of that, Eve was played as a Diver, not an assassin, not until that build reappeared early in Season 5. Before that, was commonly played as AD-Bork user into full tank. I remember, I played her back then.
It dilutes the champion kit, where half the kit is useless depending on the build.
You can not say that her kit was entirely fine save her R. Her R was not her only problem, and I think you're looking at her through rose tinted goggles, because you don't like the new version, the old version had to be better.
Liveey1 votesJust to add onto this thread I feel like the permanent stealth was always a way of engaging AND escaping.
I always saw Eve popping out on nowhere killing someone and popping back into stealth and running away. Arent assassins supposed to be played like that? Getting the ONE kill that mattered and running away until they are ready to burst down the next target?
Thats just how I see it any way, arent divers champions that could take turret shots get the kill for their team and perhaps even turret and still have HP as long as the adc wasnt sitting there eating your armor like candy?
idk guess I am just stupid and never saw Eve played ever before her rework.
Rebonack1 votesJust to add onto this thread I feel like the permanent stealth was always a way of engaging AND escaping.
I always saw Eve popping out on nowhere killing someone and popping back into stealth and running away. Arent assassins supposed to be played like that? Getting the ONE kill that mattered and running away until they are ready to burst down the next target?
Thats just how I see it any way, arent divers champions that could take turret shots get the kill for their team and perhaps even turret and still have HP as long as the adc wasnt sitting there eating your armor like candy?
idk guess I am just stupid and never saw Eve played ever before her rework.
It is. Well, sort of. In about the same way that Vi can Q into a fight, fight for a little while, and then Q out again. OLD old Eve could do that, sort of. Move in, pounce on someone, run away, get healed from her Ult, stealth, go in again. Old Eve could do that with her W, too. But because of the way they functioned, they needed to be able to take some real hits while they were in the fight. But neither could just poof away the way that New Eve can when she uses her Ult. That's very much an Assassin thing.
'Divers' are reasonably durable champs with nice sustained damage and pretty good target-selection. Usually their target-selection is some kind of dash, hence the diving part. Though a dash isn't the only form of target selection. 's why I'm not super fond of the term 'Diver', since hooks and invisibility afford strong target-selection, too. They usually don't have any way to get out of a fight aside from left-clicking the ground somewhere enemies aren't and hoping they make it.
Assassins, by contrast, have focus-breaks. Some mechanic that makes it so enemies can't target them so they can 'break focus' in the middle of a fight and back off to wait on cooldowns. That's exactly what Eve's new Ult does.
Essentially, old Eve could go in, but she didn't have a wholly reliable way to get out. That's why she needed the big shield that her Ult gave her in order to do her job. The new Eve has a reliable way to get out, so she doesn't need the durability tools old Eve had.
Liveey1 votesIt is. Well, sort of. In about the same way that Vi can Q into a fight, fight for a little while, and then Q out again. OLD old Eve could do that, sort of. Move in, pounce on someone, run away, get healed from her Ult, stealth, go in again. Old Eve could do that with her W, too. But because of the way they functioned, they needed to be able to take some real hits while they were in the fight. But neither could just poof away the way that New Eve can when she uses her Ult. That's very much an Assassin thing.
'Divers' are reasonably durable champs with nice sustained damage and pretty good target-selection. Usually their target-selection is some kind of dash, hence the diving part. Though a dash isn't the only form of target selection. 's why I'm not super fond of the term 'Diver', since hooks and invisibility afford strong target-selection, too. They usually don't have any way to get out of a fight aside from left-clicking the ground somewhere enemies aren't and hoping they make it.
Assassins, by contrast, have focus-breaks. Some mechanic that makes it so enemies can't target them so they can 'break focus' in the middle of a fight and back off to wait on cooldowns. That's exactly what Eve's new Ult does.
Essentially, old Eve could go in, but she didn't have a wholly reliable way to get out. That's why she needed the big shield that her Ult gave her in order to do her job. The new Eve has a reliable way to get out, so she doesn't need the durability tools old Eve had.
thats really informative, thank you for explaining that to me the way you did :) I get it now.
PokladnicaZla3 votesJust give her a bigger base MS.
To note,she's an assassin.She's supposed to be hard to play,getting to her target and procing her charm should be the hard part,because once you do,the target should be dead. It shouldn't be easy,but easier compared to live.
Tik1152 votesThe charm itself I feel isn't that big of a problem
What IS a problem is the pinpoint accuracy indicator, It points right where you are and says "She's right there" it would be better if the indicator was more of a "She's roughly around...here?" because as it stands even the narrowist of CC will work on her because of that indicator
Getting a burst of movement speed when it fully charges Or have the charm duration/MR shred Go up the longer it channels (similar to Xeraths E with distance traveled) I think would sort out part of her issue
Sukishoo2 votesLike the pointer should kind of go back-and-forth in the area rather than just point to where she is.
Tik1151 votesI think the easier solution is just to transplant Fioras Vital point graphic for it, having a 45% guestimate indicator for the charm would be fine
Sukishoo1 votesBut then it's not really unique if you just keep re-using things from existing champs.
Tik1151 votes.....
E, only difference is one needs terrain to knockup
E, Only difference is one starts with a dash
Both put the target out of action and they can move with them
WE NEED TO BUILD A WALL
Invunrability
We have 130+ champs, we have tons of reusing things, just look at all the "Adds a slow/Deals % health/At 3 stacks..."
Not to mention which is the lesser of two evils here? having the pinpoint accurate pointer move up and down distracting you or a rough indicator? this is just visual clarity over a potentially annoying change
Snake Prince2 votesi prefer to keep stealth compared to this shit ability that holds her back so much .
Rebonack1 votes[{quoted}](name=Snake Prince,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm7lZBLs,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-10-22T20:59:17.047+0000)
i prefer to keep stealth compared to this shit ability that holds her back so much .
I'm in the same camp. Sadly, it would probably be a whole lot easier for Riot to just scrub her perma-stealth instead.
TonyTonyMordecai1 votesIf they added movement speed while moving towards a cursed target (and while demon shade was active) it would help her ganks and help her do something early.
Rebonack3 votesIf they added movement speed while moving towards a cursed target (and while demon shade was active) it would help her ganks and help her do something early.
I mean, yeah, there are lots of things that could be added to make Eve feel better. But while she still has stealth AND her charm she'll continue to feel awful. Everything else has to be watered down to make room for those two components.
Really, though, Eve's kit is just completely out of whack with her lore. So she's this seducing demon, right? Who is... invisible all the time. And who charms people, but only while they can't see her? What?
Perma-stealth made sense when she was an assassin by occupation. She goes in, claws people to death, and vanishes. Great. Works thematically, works as a kit. Stealth skirmisher diver sorta thing.
Perma-stealth makes zero sense with the new lore. Just no sense what so ever. Being an Assassin also makes no sense with her new lore. She doesn't want to explode people instantly, she wants to prolong their suffering. Y'know which classes deal lots of damage over time? That's right! Skirmishers and Divers!
TonyTonyMordecai2 votesIf they made her charm last like half a second (similar to Naut root on basic attack) like some sort of Duskblade effect on her passive, then moved her stealth to her W as an active or something, with bonus movement speed and double that while moving towards champs, then maybe her stealth would be more balanced (and make more sense for her reveal range to be so big, because if she was moving at super sonic speed then it would be pretty terrifying if she appeared right next to you)
Rıots Bad Client1 votesTo be it feels fair.
...
But its not fun... at all.
Robertsmash1 votesImo she should gain true invisibility (like Talon) once the W mark fills, until it fades or she procs it. Adjust W mark time as needed.
SlashStriker1 votesIt takes her 2.5 seconds before she can charm you which gives you lot of time for you to figure out that eve is going to gank you. Her gap closer is the weakest thing eve have
Catastrop1 votesGet rid of that charm, while it fits thematically, it has no reason to be in her kit. Her entire burst rotation is balanced around the target being charmed which realistically is just not happening unless the Eve flashes. IMO this is a case of lore ruining the champion's kit. The charm had thematic value, but that's literally it, it does nothing to actually help her kit in anyway.
The Yetii Rider1 votesThe Stealth needs to be removed, but no one will let it go, so Eve herself just has to be bad. That's fine. Same with Nasus and his infinite stacking.
Rebonack1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fm7lZBLs,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-10-22T18:49:50.220+0000)
The Stealth needs to be removed, but no one will let it go, so Eve herself just has to be bad. That's fine. Same with Nasus and his infinite stacking.
Given the choice, I would rather seem the Charm go. But at this juncture it would probably be easy to remove the stealth and improve her other kit components, as much as I hate to say it.
Liveey1 votesIdk man I normally throw on the charm and immediately go in before the charm is ready. To make sure my opponent doesnt have the reaction time to get to turret or literally anywhere.
I like the slow, and I get more kills instead of waiting for a two second window that is pointless anyway because why would I be ganking a lane where the target isnt a squishy person who will die to an easy E Q anyway?
TwitchInMyPants1 votesWhy can't both be good
They removed her ability to gapclose by deleting old W, even if R compensates for the defensive function it absolutely doesn't address her pre6
Like if they want her stealth tied to lv6 it should either give more bonus, turn on faster, or have a shorter detection range. If they want to do none of that just make her W more reliable by cutting some of that delay.
Fargo791 votesthey should make it so eve can target a person the same as kindred can target someone.. that way she can bluff 1 lane for a gank and show up in another..
Red Wreckage1 votesdo you want Eve to charm from stealth???
like, how can some seductress lure some noobs into her trap without "showing off some goodies"
when enemy cant see anything, you want them to get charmed toward thin air?
Xurreal1 votesImplying that eve's charm isnt good.
My girls got surreal reach into warded territory.
Better than that, Charm has just the right amount of time to interfere with other Champion abilities, reposition to their reaction, zone out potential threats, Etc.
She has the tools to debuff again, part of her original concept. You are now useful against heavy threats like galio, Scion, and provided your ultimate is up Mundo.
Also, she ganks similarly to other jg champs pre6. Play the vision game.
Easy solution: Charm's arrow indicator appears after 1 second instead of 2.5. As-is, the charm arrow only shows up when the charm is already primed to be procced, meaning she has to have slow movement speed and a large detection radius to make up for it.
By alerting the victim 1.5 seconds before the charm is ready, it frees up power budget for the rest of her kit, namely her stealth and her movement speed. The charm is the least akin part of her current kit to her old one, and its addition is taking power away from the parts of Eve that are familiar.
