I still don't see the point of how she's rewarded for missing a skillshot. Making her miss her E already creates a wide area that'll sleep the next opponent who're in contact with it, so that's already rewarding enough. She doesn't damage amp & sleep duration as much as her first cast.
Boulderox14 votesLong Range High damage High CC Low CD
NocturnalSheild9 votesHigh damage??? Lawl.
Think about 11 mages deal more damage.
2 seconds INTERUPPTABLE CC is now high ?
And she has a single damaging spell u want it at a 8 second cd or something?
Boulderox22 votesHigh damage??? Lawl.
Think about 11 mages deal more damage.
2 seconds INTERUPPTABLE CC is now high ?
And she has a single damaging spell u want it at a 8 second cd or something?
Watch the video...
Faker said zoe in unbalanced, same with doublelift, and I think they know more than you and I combined bud...
she has high cc because most mage stuns are not that long with 1 point invest.
all other mages have weak cc with 1 point of invest and or require more than 1 ability 
to CC that scale up better as the game goes on or other random mechanics like 
stun.
The fact that the ability can be as long as any turrain + 800 units is ridiculous, it is safe, doesn't punish her for missing as it leaves a zoning trap, and rewards CD for hitting a powerful CC... the only other CDR for hit is 
E and 
Q , which are balanced by how they are designed to GO IN, NOT sit in the back.
NocturnalSheild14 votesGood thing that unbalanced champion is losing to almost every mage in the game.
Hell she has a 38% winrate against malz.
One of the lowest range mages.
Faker is simply too good at the game. Its like reksai after the nerfs.
She had an abysmal winrate in almost every elo yet was still being played in pro and challenger games because her CC and blind sense were simply too good to the 0.01% of the players who could use it.
A champ can 100% be balanced for 99.9% of the elos yet still be unbalanced in challenger.
Shit i think anivia does amazing in master tier/challenger yet you never seen her? Why is that if shes so strong???
Boulderox9 votesGood thing that unbalanced champion is losing to almost every mage in the game.
Hell she has a 38% winrate against malz.
One of the lowest range mages.
Faker is simply too good at the game. Its like reksai after the nerfs.
She had an abysmal winrate in almost every elo yet was still being played in pro and challenger games because her CC and blind sense were simply too good to the 0.01% of the players who could use it.
A champ can 100% be balanced for 99.9% of the elos yet still be unbalanced in challenger.
Shit i think anivia does amazing in master tier/challenger yet you never seen her? Why is that if shes so strong???
Ornn had a shit win rate, then got buffed patch after patch and then he is cancer incarnate atm.
had the same problem, lowest winrater in 4/5 positions, but look at her now.
Buffing a champ after 1 week of the champion being out, no.
And by your backwards logic, 
was changed because he had oppressive power at the highest level of play but subpar in the other elos, but 
gets a pass, YEEEAAA NO...
Dark Nephthys2 votesPersonally, I feel you don't see 
mainly for the fact that in lower elo's, teams won't capitalize on her wall as much (and some low elo Anivia's don't abuse her wall as much)..That and everyone is doing so much damage so quickly which is much harder for her when she needs to stack 
which games basically end by the time you finally do.
Thats at least my opinion on why she isn't played as much. I know this didn't really offer anything to your conversation but just thought i'd put my 2 cents in about Anivia.
LunarHanyou2 votesGood thing that unbalanced champion is losing to almost every mage in the game.
Hell she has a 38% winrate against malz.
One of the lowest range mages.
Faker is simply too good at the game. Its like reksai after the nerfs.
She had an abysmal winrate in almost every elo yet was still being played in pro and challenger games because her CC and blind sense were simply too good to the 0.01% of the players who could use it.
A champ can 100% be balanced for 99.9% of the elos yet still be unbalanced in challenger.
Shit i think anivia does amazing in master tier/challenger yet you never seen her? Why is that if shes so strong???
Vs ahri she has a 0% winrate Cus of her mobility and R safety, I dont even bother banning her cus I got the Advantage. lol
Not to mention she is Paper-thin.
Durzaka4 votesshe has high cc because most mage stuns are not that long with 1 point invest.
its a good thing its a sleep instead of a stun.
It lasts longer because it breaks on any damage.
If it lasted the same length AND got broken by damage, it would be weak as fuck.
Boulderox2 votesits a good thing its a sleep instead of a stun.
It lasts longer because it breaks on any damage.
If it lasted the same length AND got broken by damage, it would be weak as fuck.
it is a stun with a different name and 1 rule... that can be reduced IF they are dealt damage, she sure is gunna deal lots of damage to you before she revs up her omega Q.... totally...
Somebody Love Me3 votesBut she has a team. If they touch you before her Q hits, even with an auto, you're free to go.
The smart thing to do would be to chain cc, but that would be a waste of the damage amp.
HeimerLmao1 votesOf course her team will be there during laning phase. Yeah sure.
Succubús GF2 votesPlay... inside.. your minions???
HeimerLmao1 votesMinion... block... thanks but no (also her ult can be used to jump sideways and hit you)
Somebody Love Me1 votesIt doesn't do crazy damage in lane, and if you get hit by an E or Q in lane phase, it's on you. It's no different from Veigar landing his E, or Syndra hitting her stun. Even Lux landing her Q.
X Arashi X1 votesJust so you know if it was a stun then why can you reactivate abilities and such being put asleep?
Boulderox1 votesJust so you know if it was a stun then why can you reactivate abilities and such being put asleep?
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Sleep stun and asleep classify and do the same thing as one another mechanically. sleep just has a clause that doesn't come into play a lot
Durzaka1 voteswhat? i specifically said it wasnt a stun, whats your point?
notice me Sin pi2 votesi think it's more like pre-mini rework and current 
overpowered than like 
overpowered.
way too OP in faker and doublelift's elo. Somewhat well balanced in most boards users' elo.
xelaker2 votesto be fair if you interrupt the cc you get a fair chunk of true damage.
InfinitexMortal3 votesSounds a lot like 
And all of those also have a low cd insta kill ulti 3 of which can kill multiple people at a time. Fail to see how zoe with 1 dmg ability is broken
Somebody Love Me2 votes
forgot one
Stars Shaper2 votesIf you let Xerath land more than one shot of his ult you are being outplayed by a lot.
HeimerLmao1 votesHer e does dmg. Her q does DMG. Check the ap ratio. Done? Now look at her e. Bonus damage on her next q, and a guaranteed hit of said q. Also a wide range trap with dumb hitbox. And that e goes through walls to make it even worse. Her one ability does more dmg than Lux ult. And has around 4 seconds cd with cdr and ranks. ALSO she has bonus flashes, ignites, tps or whatever, that grant her bonus HOMING DAMAGE (1 dmg ability, sure). Now go back to her passive. Bonus damage on autos AND Q. All those mages have lower damage, similar CC, similar range and a TON less of mobility.
Gubaguy3 votesLong Range High damage High CC Low CD
Meanwhile kat deletes zoe before her sleep can even trigger... so can zed, and talon, and... well most high damage burst midlaners, because they have multiple damaging spells, while zoe only has 2 which are extremely easy to dodge and extremely telegraphed.
Boulderox1 votesMeanwhile kat deletes zoe before her sleep can even trigger... so can zed, and talon, and... well most high damage burst midlaners, because they have multiple damaging spells, while zoe only has 2 which are extremely easy to dodge and extremely telegraphed.
katarina has to dive INTO the enemy to do any damage though, zoe doesn't have to risk anything for her damage...
Gubaguy3 voteskatarina has to dive INTO the enemy to do any damage though, zoe doesn't have to risk anything for her damage...
Katarina has no mana costs, CD reset, gap closer/escape tool, and can hit multiple targets at a time, zoe has on actual damaging ability, a delayed CC that only deals damage if you can hit them after it lands, and her only 'gap closer' is teporary and leaves her extremely open to counterplay becuase its so predictable and shows where she is going to be for 3 full seconds.
Boulderox1 votesKatarina has no mana costs, CD reset, gap closer/escape tool, and can hit multiple targets at a time, zoe has on actual damaging ability, a delayed CC that only deals damage if you can hit them after it lands, and her only 'gap closer' is teporary and leaves her extremely open to counterplay becuase its so predictable and shows where she is going to be for 3 full seconds.
E damages and amps Q damage, 
and 
have 1 damage ability and at least they are somewhat balanced.
Gubaguy1 votesE damages and amps Q damage,
her E BARLEY does damage unless you let it run its full duration and hit them afterwards, and theres nothing balanced about Zil, have you faced a full AP zilean? He permastuns you while chunking your HP, and trundle doesnt need more then one damaging ability becuase he can outsustain almost everyone in game with items. Thats like claiming trynd has only one damging ability and therefore is balanced, while having an ult that literally makes him unkillable.
Boulderox1 votesher E BARLEY does damage unless you let it run its full duration and hit them afterwards, and theres nothing balanced about Zil, have you faced a full AP zilean? He permastuns you while chunking your HP, and trundle doesnt need more then one damaging ability becuase he can outsustain almost everyone in game with items. Thats like claiming trynd has only one damging ability and therefore is balanced, while having an ult that literally makes him unkillable.
i hate ap zilean as much as the next laner, but if he is SOOOO ounbalanced, why is he not being picked all the time for being so powerful?
Gubaguy1 votesi hate ap zilean as much as the next laner, but if he is SOOOO ounbalanced, why is he not being picked all the time for being so powerful?
Why isnt thresh or blitz being played in every game when they both have level 1 suppression? Why isnt Kat or zed in every game when they are some of the highest damage and safest burst champions in the game?
Beucase not everyone WANTS to play the champion, and not everyone knows HOW to play the champion.
Nocalex2 votesLong Range High damage High CC Low CD
Because velkoz doesn't have high damage... Did you think about what you said? In case you haven't played her she is quite fun. Her Q can do a lot of damage but you have to position well and time it correctly, not to mention that it has a very narrow hitbox. So it's actually not super easy to hit but when you get that max range q it is rewarding. Maybe it does a little to much damage, and I mean a little. Maybe it should be tuned down as far as it's max damage goes. Keep in mind though that it does next to nothing if you just shoot it right in front of you and unless the enemy is cc'd it is super easy to avoid as it only goes in a very predictable straight line. She reminds me of the old nidalee. A 1 trick champion that is based almost entirely around 1 skill, but if you hit that skill in the best way possible you blow people up. This is literally the most fun champ I think riot has released since zed. Her cc is nice but breaks on any damage, her range is long but her positioning can be tricky. If riot leaves her as is I highly doubt she will be a main pick in high level play and tournaments. Seems to me like you got blown up and got mad.
Boulderox1 votesBecause velkoz doesn't have high damage... Did you think about what you said? In case you haven't played her she is quite fun. Her Q can do a lot of damage but you have to position well and time it correctly, not to mention that it has a very narrow hitbox. So it's actually not super easy to hit but when you get that max range q it is rewarding. Maybe it does a little to much damage, and I mean a little. Maybe it should be tuned down as far as it's max damage goes. Keep in mind though that it does next to nothing if you just shoot it right in front of you and unless the enemy is cc'd it is super easy to avoid as it only goes in a very predictable straight line. She reminds me of the old nidalee. A 1 trick champion that is based almost entirely around 1 skill, but if you hit that skill in the best way possible you blow people up. This is literally the most fun champ I think riot has released since zed. Her cc is nice but breaks on any damage, her range is long but her positioning can be tricky. If riot leaves her as is I highly doubt she will be a main pick in high level play and tournaments. Seems to me like you got blown up and got mad.
is the velkoz sarcastic or not? cus velkoz has 0 mobility, while zoe has no inherent mobility, her ult and W can be used to get her out of sticky situations briefly or entirely in the case of lucky W pickups.
The trouble isn't how difficult it is to hit, under normal conditions that if fine, it's when her ENTIRE kit is designed to exacerbate her Q, and it's WHEN, not if, WHEN she hits her E it gives her ample time to guarantee a high damage shot. It is super fun to play her but is the most oppressive thing in the world facing her. which should be something that is thought of for balance, fun playing with and against them shouldn't be a problem cough cough pre nerfed 
By all means I hate zoe, It is the fact riot created a champion that can play as passive as they want, while having the power to nuke a squishy by just waiting until they hit an E, there isn't anything forcing her to risk anything. And how can you sit there and say she is balanced while PROS (faker and doublelift) are saying she is unbalanced, they know more than you and I combined, they know what is op and strong, and zoe is one of them.
If riot leaves her as is I highly doubt she will be a main pick in high level play
Zoe has a 57% winrate in challenger ATM Op.gg stats, so take that whatever way you wish.
She has the EXACT SAME problem that riot said needed to be gutted for, long range oppressive damage and lots of zoning power with while being incredibly safe. Winrate is Shit in every elo but highest level, and I will not stand by and allow one champ to have been gutted because of it and another be allowed because "it's different"
Nocalex1 votesis the velkoz sarcastic or not? cus velkoz has 0 mobility, while zoe has no inherent mobility, her ult and W can be used to get her out of sticky situations briefly or entirely in the case of lucky W pickups.
The trouble isn't how difficult it is to hit, under normal conditions that if fine, it's when her ENTIRE kit is designed to exacerbate her Q, and it's WHEN, not if, WHEN she hits her E it gives her ample time to guarantee a high damage shot. It is super fun to play her but is the most oppressive thing in the world facing her. which should be something that is thought of for balance, fun playing with and against them shouldn't be a problem cough cough pre nerfed
By all means I hate zoe, It is the fact riot created a champion that can play as passive as they want, while having the power to nuke a squishy by just waiting until they hit an E, there isn't anything forcing her to risk anything. And how can you sit there and say she is balanced while PROS (faker and doublelift) are saying she is unbalanced, they know more than you and I combined, they know what is op and strong, and zoe is one of them.
Zoe has a 57% winrate in challenger ATM Op.gg stats, so take that whatever way you wish.
She has the EXACT SAME problem that riot said
Litterally every "pro" sits there and says champs are broken. Xins broken, MF is broken, Ezreal is broken... blah blah blah. Also almost all of the player base is not challenger level and the game shouldn't be balanced around the top 1% of players and it's not. Zoe has an ult which you can dodge a skill shot with but I don't think anyone in their right mind would classify it as mobility as it's not going to get you out of trouble if anyone commits to the engage. And when she hits her cc she should be rewarded. You seem to think its so dam easy. It is slow moving and the are on the ground is pretty small. I have litterally not lost a single game to a Zoe yet. she is fun but she is easy to beat becasue she is easily the highest skillcap champ in league right now. That being said of course "pros" think shes op because they can play her at her max skill cap. almost no one else can. She has incredibly hard burst to land and if its a squishy they take alot of damage. Not Veigar amounts of damage but they do take a bit. I can't help but feel like you don't main mid and you don't play any mid champions.
Boulderox1 votesLitterally every "pro" sits there and says champs are broken. Xins broken, MF is broken, Ezreal is broken... blah blah blah. Also almost all of the player base is not challenger level and the game shouldn't be balanced around the top 1% of players and it's not. Zoe has an ult which you can dodge a skill shot with but I don't think anyone in their right mind would classify it as mobility as it's not going to get you out of trouble if anyone commits to the engage. And when she hits her cc she should be rewarded. You seem to think its so dam easy. It is slow moving and the are on the ground is pretty small. I have litterally not lost a single game to a Zoe yet. she is fun but she is easy to beat becasue she is easily the highest skillcap champ in league right now. That being said of course "pros" think shes op because they can play her at her max skill cap. almost no one else can. She has incredibly hard burst to land and if its a squishy they take alot of damage. Not Veigar amounts of damage but they do take a bit. I can't help but feel like you don't main mid and you don't play any mid champions.
according to op.gg, Zoe has: Champion Ban Rate Ranking 1st (102.33%) XD and is one of the highly banned in korea this patch and stats show a 68% banrate across all elos this month 70%+ in the last 7 days and 73% ban rate as of today Whether or not she is a new champion, that is abnormally high.
Go on and on about how she is a problem in the highest tier only, and had to take that to the face for a while, there is no way I am going to stand by and allow this bitch to get a pass while azir was gutted for it.
It isn't about how easy or how hard it is to hit her CC, it is just a matter of when she does hit it, which results in serious damage or death. And balance of a champion around the enemy having 100% perfect timing and movements even for a pro is absurd. So when a champion is just a waiting game, there is a problem in my book.
Mostly a top laner, which is in an awful state right now that no role has to even think about most of the time, and because of that, we have to deal with the mid laners that can't compete mid so they have to harass top, but mid is my secondary with being my goto and if not was a fan fav even before his rework, so I do have more experience with mid then you assume I have. Not claiming I am the next faker but average at best.
resumed2 votesits the same as karmas mantra q
BeatzBoyFTW5 votesits the same as karmas mantra q
Does it amplifies your's & your teammates' damage to be able to chunk 80% of your HP by stepping into your circle?
Hèntaî 1 votesBut zoe procs the E with her own attacks. Its not even a damage amp, its just the E doing its bonus true damage.
Kitten of Evil1 votesIf you put it that way, it means her E has base damage up to 440+80% AP, on a basic ability, half-magic, half-true.
X Arashi X1 votesThe Aeo isn't the same.
DracosKasu2 votesDude if you walk into her E after she miss her skillshot it is your problem. It is quite easy to see since it is a big circle and butterflies.
You can also punish her R with skillshot since she alway return to her original position.
HeimerLmao1 votesNope, it has bullshit hitbox. I was at around half hp and she threw it between me and path away from her. I moved around it, was clearly out of range and it still caught me.
Karn Bishop2 votesriot design 101 counteryplay only exists for ap assassins.
Kitten of Evil2 votesFrankly I don't know why they shoved so much into her E. It's one of the most overloaded basic skills in the game.
The Ecdysiast1 votesSo no champion should get to use a spellblade unless the spell they USED to proc it hits a target?
ªTeemo4 votesLet's make bullshit comparisons shall we?
Nocalex1 votesI still don't see the point of how she's rewarded for missing a skillshot. Making her miss her E already creates a wide area that'll sleep the next opponent who're in contact with it, so that's already rewarding enough. She doesn't damage amp & sleep duration as much as her first cast.
It is reduced man, you can easily avoid the whole thing. It's not that big and it is super visible. Stop staring at your keyboard. In all seriousness though it is. If it his you then you take magic damage, if you step on it you don't. The only other part that does damage is if she interupts it with and auto attack you take extra damage on that auto. So to recap if you dodge it but somehow step on it you take less than half the damage it can do....
LuxannaVeritas1 votesIf an enemy gets hit with the "wide area" (emphasis on these quotation marks) right after the bubble popped, then she didn't miss her skill shot.
If an enemy gets hit with the "wide area" anytime after the bubble has popped, then they're playing poorly.
So I don't see the problem with her E. The area it creates isn't even that big; it takes up one-third of the lane.
Teridax681 votesI think the issue here is that Riot doesn't really consider Zoe's E trap "missing" the skillshot, as it's intended to also be laid down to block choke points or catch people unawares. The trouble with this, though, is that it means there are effectively fewer ways Zoe gets punished for a misplay, even though she punishes champions ultra-hard for just one wrong move. It just contributes to a general feeling of unfairness, particularly since this gives Zoe more agency at the cost of her opponent's.
In this respect, I think Zoe needs to lose one aspect of her E: either the ability stops laying a trap if it misses, as proposed in the OP, or it just doesn't auto-sleep a target on a direct hit. Personally, I'd be more in favor of the latter, because it would encourage Zoe to use the ability as a trap, and would give her opponents an opportunity to escape if she uses the effect like a generic skillshot.
