Out of curiosity, why does Teemo not have a limit to the amount of mushrooms he can have out?

Nikushimi Zero·Feb 6, 2016·3 votes·7,272 views

I am genuinely curious.

I know its his ultimate and everything, and that it does have a 5 minute limit (which is a long ass time imo).

He does a lot of damage already with the correct build, and his mushrooms are definitely a pain.

One time a teammate teemo of mine had a lot of them out at a time. Literally scattered everywhere.

Why? Why is there no limit? Other traps have a limit and the last one cast disappears if the limit is reached, or is there a limit and I just have not seen that limit?

I am not hating even though they are annoying. Just truly curious. Can someone tell me?

34 Comments

The WhamboozlerFeb 6, 20164 votes

Mushrooms are really the ONLY reason to play Teemo, and they already got nerfed to half their duration. No, there's no limit on them and there really shouldn't be.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Nah, I say his poison and blind is. That aspect of Teemo in and of itself is deadly. Add the mushrooms for added insanity. T_T

Also, they lasted for 10 minutes before? Jesus....so....many....mushrooms.

And idk. Not saying there SHOULD be a limit. Just that I was wondering why there wasn't. 10 would still be sufficient imo, but shrugs I was only curious why there wasn't. Thanks for the info!

AsphodelNextFeb 6, 20163 votes

He did during URF, but that was only because it was causing problems. and he could have like 50 out, so they limited him to 20.

Normally, even spamming on cooldown, he can only have like 15-20 out at a time, which given that you need more than one to block off a path, basically means he's restricted to one side of the map. Also, he has to actually go out and plant the things(time which he could be using to farm/do other stuff), which means that if you have vision you can catch him out. So pretty balanced, given that it's an ultimate ability and pretty much his defining trait.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

True. I suppose Rift is different than ARAM.

Have 20 or so just clogging the lane in ARAM is insane.

Though the champs are made with SR in mind rather than ARAM and the other modes.

15-20 is quite a lot. So, that's about the hard cap? Damn that's a lot. X.x

67chromeFeb 6, 20161 votes

In ARAM you can purchase: item 3187 item 3185 item 2047 to deal with the Teemo Minefields.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20162 votes

Yes, but it also depends on if you have a champ which uses those.

The potion itself is almost null because you lose the effects on death, and in a game where you're behind and need the gold it's not the best investment.

Though I do know there are counters, but many factors contribute to those counters.

Anyways, wasn't complaining. Was just wondering why there wasn't a limit since it never made sense to me. All other champions with summons, traps, or things that do damage or give sight don't do nearly as many things as teemos shrooms, and aren't nearly as deadly, but they get a limit and his don't. That's why I was asking.

My question has been answered though and I thank everyone for the responses.

AsphodelNextFeb 6, 20161 votes

In ARAM, it's also a lot easier to see where he puts them down, and just walk around them or have your tank tank them. And it's not like you'll just forget you're playing a Teemo, cause he's always in your face. Also, as a tank, item 3112 means you can tank 1/2 of one every 10 seconds.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

The shield will absorb the damage, yes. Though half of one out of the many placed isn't worth it for that item.

I mean, I'm not saying he can't be countered. I know he can be. I am just really surprised there isn't a limit and I wanted to know why. Now I do. He was thought of for more SR than ARAM and so in ARAM he is extremely dangerous due to the small area and many shrooms. In SR he is less of a threat due to a bigger area.

DrCyanideFeb 6, 20163 votes

He's hard capped at 24 mushrooms out at once, just do to CDR (using 45% CDR).

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Is he? Damn. That's a lot of mushrooms. X.x

MisterHealYoGirlFeb 6, 20162 votes

Teemo's traps are less opportunistic than other champions' traps; Caitlyn, for example, sets hers up to get her siege on, and being able to just FLOOD the lane with cupcakey goodness would be pretty toxic. Even Shaco, whose traps are fairly similar, uses them to set up ambushes and cut of routes situationally, not to lie in wait. Teemo uses his to exert map pressure, chunking people who are trying to make rotations and controlling objectives and choke points.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

I wouldn't say that they are less opportunistic. The slow and poison combination sets up a champion to be ambushed by him quite easily. Setting him his two other abilities which do damage, cause blind and causes more damage on an enemy....I would definitely not say it is less opportunistic. It also gives vision.

Caits traps aren't as bad imo though since she has to be in range to take advantage of it.

I was only curious why he had no limit. Personally I think he should have a 10 mushroom limit that increases by a few at each rank, but I mean I understand why he has it. Play is different in the rift than ARAM.

I thank you for the info as to why though. Just never made sense. So many mushrooms. X.x

MisterHealYoGirlFeb 6, 20161 votes

I mean, I only play ARAM, so Hextech Sweeper, Lightbringer and Oracle's Extract exist. 250 gold to make another champion not have an ultimate. That said, the strength that Teemo's traps have (and what they let him do) is to apply significant damage and pressure without anyone else around. Shaco boxes sting for the first five minutes of the game if you hang around instead of running, but what gets you is the Shaco who backstabs you while you're feared, and past ten minutes they're little more than an annoyance. Teemo CAN use his traps to ambush you (pink ward bait op), but he by no means HAS to. They're more for map control than combat advantage, so they're not capped like combat advantage traps are.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Well, if they aren't meant for combat advantage then they sure do a decent amount of damage for non combat traps. Lol.

But I get your point. Just seems ridiculous when every like 2 steps you run into a mushroom. xD That's why I was wondering about why there was no limit. Literally couldn't step anywhere without a mushroom going off.

Well, thanks for the info. Makes more sense for SR than ARAM, but oh well. Question answered.

CLG FactorFeb 6, 20161 votes

The limit is as fast as they recharge, and im pretty sure they eventually despawn if no one steps on them

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Yeah, they do. After 5 minutes.

ReshiKillimFeb 6, 20161 votes

Jhin traps have CDR as the limit, so do Shaco's. Teemo shares this trait, because other champions with traps have a lot more damage potential not counting traps.

Shaco is melee and his boxes are squishy as heck. Jhin's do a bucket load of burst but are very telegraphed, while Teemo only has one non ultimate offensive active ability.

Each one has their drawbacks, one of which being that you can kill these traps and that oracle's disables them while they're revealed.

Other trappers, Caitlyn for example, could block off an entire lane with immortal CC traps that can't be disabled if there was no limit.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

I'm not saying Cait should have infinite. Just that I was wondering why Teemo didn't have a limit.

Personally I don't see why he can't have a limit. Not a low limit, but more like 10 Mushrooms at a time. It still gives him incredible pressure. Especially combined with the poison, slows, and blinds he has.

Though, I understand why people wouldn't want him to. I'm sure in the Rift it's different then ARAM as well since there are more places to put mushrooms. So I understand a bit as to why there is no limit.

YrzenFeb 6, 20161 votes

Because it's what keeps him useful.

Remember when his mushrooms lasted twice as long? Yeah, that was when he could place a lot. Teemo isn't generally considered competitively viable, nor is he the biggest balance concern in casual play. Putting a limiter on how many shrooms he can have down would just be an unnecessary nerf. He's not the only one with no upper limit. Traps are limited as necessary; not just because they are traps.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

I wouldn't say that's what keeps him useful.

The fact he has his blinding dart and toxic shot alone make him pretty useful. That and his stealth.

Even without his Mushrooms he is deadly.

However, I was only curious about why he didn't. Running into several mushrooms and having that slow AND poison AND aoe poison and slow hit everyone is a huge bonus. Especially one after another.

I was only curious. Wasn't saying they need to do anything. Was only wondering about why there wasn't since the mushrooms are hard to counter without sight, and even with sight a misclick (league messing up and even though you clicked on the mush to attack, it walks you over it instead) or even a minion running over one will screw you over.

Still, was only curious. Wasn't bashing, wasn't hating (though I do have a certain degree of loathing with all that he can pull off). Just simple curiosity.

YrzenFeb 6, 20161 votes

Not quite.

I meant it in a more broad sense. his niches for cc could be accomplished better and more reliably by many other champions, and toxic shot just gives him more damage which needs to be delivered from auto attack range. (Compare to adcs)

He's certainly a variable without his shrooms, but not one someone should choose in a competitive environment. He wouldn't be much good in casual play either without them. An extremely squishy AP marksman (no lifesteal! Doesn't scale with crit!) with a single-target blind as his only utility isn't very appealing in a teambuilding sense, and there are better options for mobile ad marksman with or without cc.

Mushrooms aren't that strong if a Teemo isn't ahead. I gather you're primarily an ARAM player, where Teemo will always rush Liandry's and force the damage on to you permanently, unless you have a healer. ARAM is of course unbalanced by nature. In Summoner's Rift, the shrooms aren't as omnipresent, or as consistently strong. In other words, they need to be unlimited in order for him to properly wall off gank attempts or keep places monitored while still having some in the lane in case an enemy wants to be aggressive.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Yeah. I mainly play ARAM.

As I said before I don't wand them to change him or anything since he is one of those champs that if they are ahead he is satan, but if he isn't then he is just a minor nuisance.

Since people have been explaining things more I understand why there is no limit as his kit was mainly looked for to be used in SR rather than the other game modes and maps.

So I definitely understand it from that point. I mean, league was made with SR in mind and so their champs should be too, though I do get a bit disappointed in that regard because it means that the champions are very linear in terms of what gamemode they are made for to be balanced.

ARAM is definitely broken with a lot of champions. Lux, Teemo, Jhin, and really any long range kiters or stealth characters are a pain.

QuephaFeb 6, 20161 votes

Because the whole point of teemo is that he fills up the jungle with mushrooms and can leave little presents anywhere on the map.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Fair point. Was just curious considering the slow duration and percentage of the slow. Then add in how many mushrooms and how often people run into them due to how many he can have up at a time and it's a huge slow. That alone kills.

I was only curious. Was not bashing teemo or anything. Just trying to have it make sense to me.

agbudarFeb 6, 20161 votes

his shrooms over the year of 2015 went from a 1.0 ap ratio down to 0.5 from 10 minute duration to 5 minute duration.

enough is enough i know its fun to bash teemo for being satan but his viability in ranked is long gone

and no i don't count a handfull of people maining him and nothing but teemo a viable state.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

I was not saying he needs more nerfs. Though I do know his damage hurts a lot over time.

I was simply wondering why he didn't have a limit. Wasn't bashing him even though I despise fighting one due to all that CC and DoT.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Teemo is still quite satan like, but he has counters. I know this. I was just curious about things.

Also, 1.0 AP ratio? Are you saying he had 100% AP scaling at one point on the mushrooms or...? Cause that's what it seems like to me, or I'm misinterpreting your decimal.

agbudarFeb 6, 20161 votes

no he had a 1.0 ap ratio this was during the oracle elixer period when a support could spend 400 gold for a 3 minute buff walk across the entire map and remove all his shrooms this way.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Still not sure what you mean by 1.0 ap ratio. That to me is saying that he had 1 magic damage for every 1 AP. Though you say no. I'm confused. X.x

Either way his shrooms still do quite the damage and the slow is brutal as heck.

And yeah, a support, or anyone for that matter, could do that. Though they are usually needed elsewhere.

I'm not saying there aren't counters. Not saying he needs more nerfs either. I was just curious as to why he had no limit. Now I know.

agbudarFeb 7, 20161 votes

i mean yes? his ratio was 100% ap so 10 damage over 4 seconds for every 10 AP he had.

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 7, 20161 votes

Ah. Alright.

Now that you said that I just want to ask. Are you sure you're not talking about the base damage and not the AP%? I ask because the AP% on his ultimate is 12.5% while the base damage is 50/81.25/112.5

I'm glad it isn't 100% AP because that would be, at 600AP (which can be got to fairly decently with the right items) 712.5 magic damage over 4 seconds. That's 178 (I took off the decimal) every second. Put a few in the same area and, while they don't stack, they will reset the timer. So I am very glad his AP ratio is not 100%. Especially with a 50% slow for 4s at max rank. That's a big slow.

Though I mean Nasus's is worse, but that's gradual and does no damage.

But anyways. Teemo seems to be a touchy subject with people. So I'll probably just stop talking about this since my curiosity seems to have brought ire from the community. RIP.

agbudarFeb 7, 20161 votes

dude if you look at the tooltip it does a total amount of damage over X amount of seconds

so it used to tick at 25% per second so over the full duration it did 100% of your AP now its 12.5% per second and 50% over the full duration

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 7, 20161 votes

Oooooh. Wow. I cannot math tonight....Lol. It just registered that you know...12.5% is just for ONE second. xD Wow me. Wow. RIP.

Still, that's a decent DoT. I am just saying the combined effect of damage and a slow is heavy.

Anyways....

Nikushimi ZeroFeb 6, 20161 votes

Just so people know. I was not, and am not saying Teemo needs a limit. I am not saying and did not say that they should give him a limit. I am not bashing Teemo even though I personally find him to be extremely annoying to fight against.

I also am not and did not say there are no counters for Teemo. I know there are. Though it does take up item slots or money.

I was simply curious as to why there was no limit because I was surprised there wasn't considering how potent they can be and how dangerous he can get. However, I see now that it is because he is meant for SR and not ARAM so his kit is based for SR. Much like all champions.

So in ARAM he is more dangerous it seems. Especially with theoretically no limit.

My question has been answered in that it is because he is meant for SR and to be a presence in the jungle and to keep his lane safe. In SR he has less room and so he doesn't have as much presence over the entire map as he does in ARAM. Instead in SR he has a section.

So thank you for the answers to my genuinely curious question. I just never understood why, and now I do. Thank you!