I think what is happening is with this jungle and burst meta, adc's don't have time to farm and get going like they used to... Even if they do manage to get fed, if they don't 2 shot the enemy, they just get instantly burst down from full health. Every season the game keeps getting sped up and right now, with how high damage is, it feels like the fastest season to date.
Surfer Ashe25 votesI love the memes, but you're right. I was looking at the ADC rosyer and I hestitate about buffing almost any one of them.
Games are just ending too fast because ADCs NEED IE, Zeal upgrade, LW and BT to even stand a snowball's chance at surviving a 2 armor item tank.
Erockandroll9 votes[{quoted}](name=Surfer Ashe,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fUgcxvkK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-12T15:26:32.191+0000)
I love the memes, but you're right. I was looking at the ADC rosyer and I hestitate about buffing almost any one of them.
Games are just ending too fast because ADCs NEED IE, Zeal upgrade, LW and BT to even stand a snowball's chance at surviving a 2 armor item tank.
While I generally agree, I'm also of the opinion that the glass cannon is a glass cannon is a glass cannon. They generally don't have good 1v1 potential, and they generally need the support of their team. (And cry about not getting that support because his teammates are also glass cannon. Why people complain when a team doesn't have a tank) And yet, that's a fair trade off when you consider their unparalleled ability to take objectives.
But in the over all experience of playing the ADC, because the lane bully ADC got nerfed with the Assassin update, (And people did complain about the aPen builds) the meta now is trying to shift back to the later scaling ADCs. But their lack of early game means they become more reliant on their Junglers and supports to insure they survive the early game, giving them the impression that they are not self reliant (compared to what ADC's used to be), and have little say in whether they sink or swim.
46316 votesIn a way you've described how suppressed ADCs are.
Like you said, the games are too quick paced, and before ADCs can even reach their potential to execute their job, the game has been decided.
No one said ADCs are weak. They're talking about the role itself and what it demands and how the meta completely shuts them out of the equation.
zrWQMdGHtY8 votesADC aren't weak, ADC Players are. There's a difference.
SmileInABox6 votesNah, just looking at your name completely nullifies the legitamacy of your opinion here.
zrWQMdGHtY3 votesAnd what's with my name?
ShaolinToilet3 votesHe's probably saying you just smash ur face on the keyboard and get a Penta
zrWQMdGHtY2 votesI didnt know I can walk and target and time my daggers by smashing my face. Oh, you mean he's reffering that as a Katarina main is natural for me to be good as an ADC? Because Im pretty much fed nearly all my ADC games, only time Im not is when I get a 1v2 lane with a lot of baby sit. Funny? Isnt it? Guess smashing my face on the mouse right key is too complicated for none Katarina mains...
ShaolinToilet2 votesI was just trying to help you understand what he was thinking.
Jihyobda5 votesI honestly disagree with you, especially when I see people like sneaky, dlift and qtpie complaining like all the other adcs, surely i'm not as good as them, but i see them talking about the same problems i feel are in the adc role
zrWQMdGHtY2 votesMate, half the people complaining of ADC been weak, most likely main bruisers and enjoy destroying ADCs, but do this so they can nerf tanks and assassins and mages, so make ADCs their biggest problem while the other classes fall off. I cant play ADC, I hate playing ADC. I'm a bloody Katarina biggest main and yet, when I play ADC from time to time to get my box, I am always fed. No matter win or lose, I always get fed. And when I die I don't die, because I lack mobility or damage or anything. I die simply, because my team was awesome enough to feed that disgusting Yasuo or Vi or Lee Sin giving me 0 chance to exist, while they suicide alone without me and hoping that I can defend 1v5, because I'm "fed". And Lee isn't even that big of an issue if you play specifically or Lucian... One can run and slow/poke, the other just rushes and bursts. I don't know why there's so many people hating on me for telling them the truth. ADCs aren't weak, they are actually pretty stupidly strong, because I don't see it okay when that 3/10 MF with 80 CS can burst me faster than I can do my burst on her as Katarina 10/1 and 150 CS... This isn't to position or anything. Clearly I don't play like the rest, waiting for my team to do 99% of the work and so I can spam my E just for last hits. I like doing my job on my own, which is why I notice stuff others don't. IF you by any chance get slowed or stunned and the ADC will burst you down no matter how behind. Only way you can fail is if you got AP Runes and support masteries and only 6 doran's blades for some weird reason...
And now here it comes the "Your name is enough to make your comment not count for anything."... Because Katarina is so similar to ADC I'm guessing...
Cookimonster3162 votesIt's not super impressive bragging about how you consistently get fed as ADC in norms. I wouldn't say I'm better at Kat than you because I consistently get fed as her in norms. The reason ADC is in such a bad state (IMO) is because the whole 4 man bot meta. If the other team 4 man bot then gets first tower and dragon, then one ADC becomes super strong and the other just rots and hopes the game can stall out, but games end so fast in this meta because of how snowbally the game has become. Vayne, for example, can either be a monster that can basically oneshot everyone, or she just goes in and dies because she is behind in gold. The ADC's goal is to get a lot of items so they can carry the game, but with this meta they can't compete after 4 man bot; because, the other ADC is so powerful. This may seem like ADC is super powerful if a fed one can shut out a game, but in a lot of scenarios they get ahead because of jungle and mid giving them a huge gold lead. The champions aren't underpowered it is the role in its entirety that is, especially when behind.
zrWQMdGHtY1 votesI don't know how it's in NA, but in EUW its harder to get fed as people try hard way more than in Ranked and most of the time you get matched against diamond/masters, premade while your team is low ranked or something. So yeah, normal games is legit as well...
Cookimonster3161 votesAlright so I'm a Katarina, and Yasuo god because I play against people who try in my games as well.
I don't know how it's in NA, but in EUW its harder
But you don't know how it is in NA so how do you know EUW is harder?
zrWQMdGHtY1 votesBy harder I mean people try harder as if their lives depend on it, just so they can just call you a noob in the end. And I don't know how could you have the dignity to call yourself a Kata god. I play her since release with thousands of games only as her and I don't dare to have such huge ego, even if I'm an arrogant b... cough
Cookimonster3161 votesI mean people try harder
You are still assuming
And I was only calling myself a katarina god sarcastically. Me doing good in norms doesn't mean I'm good at the champion
zrWQMdGHtY1 votesWhatever.
skyskee0082 votesIn what world does a 3/10 MF burst faster than a 10/1 katarina. Are we playing the same game?
zrWQMdGHtY3 votesa 3/10 MF with just IE hitting 1700 ult. Yeah we are.
Avios11 votesIf you stand in the ult for 1700 damage to be dealt to you, you deserve to be killed.
zrWQMdGHtY2 votesOh sure. Because been on the middle of the lane when you're under a slow and take 1700 in less than 2 seconds is totally dependable on me. 10/10 logic.
Avios11 votes
and various mobility abilities exist.
zrWQMdGHtY1 votesWard jump doesnt. Flash has cooldowns. 10/10 logic yet again.
LordGeovanni1 voteswhile i agree with you about the options to get out expecally if you are not an assassin ranged carry or yasou options are extremely limited and if you can survive that they call you op nerf you while at the same time building penetration builds. the game isnt supposed to be reliant on flash thats why summoner spells have no diversity when riot wanted them to have diversity. i 200% prefer ghost to flash but flash in 500% better. also ward ump doesnt need to exist take away lee sins next
Nipsahoy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kitty Katarina,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fUgcxvkK,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2017-01-12T23:13:26.659+0000)
Mate, half the people complaining of ADC been weak, most likely main bruisers and enjoy destroying ADCs, but do this so they can nerf tanks and assassins and mages, so make ADCs their biggest problem while the other classes fall off. I cant play ADC, I hate playing ADC. I'm a bloody Katarina biggest main and yet, when I play ADC from time to time to get my box, I am always fed. No matter win or lose, I always get fed. And when I die I don't die, because I lack mobility or damage or anything. I die simply, because my team was awesome enough to feed that disgusting Yasuo or Vi or Lee Sin giving me 0 chance to exist, while they suicide alone without me and hoping that I can defend 1v5, because I'm "fed". And Lee isn't even that big of an issue if you play specifically or Lucian... One can run and slow/poke, the other just rushes and bursts. I don't know why there's so many people hating on me for telling them the truth. ADCs aren't weak, they are actually pretty stupidly strong, because I don't see it okay when that 3/10 MF with 80 CS can burst me faster than I can do my burst on her as Katarina 10/1 and 150 CS... This isn't to position or anything. Clearly I don't play like the rest, waiting for my team to do 99% of the work and so I can spam my E just for last hits. I like doing my job on my own, which is why I notice stuff others don't. IF you by any chance get slowed or stunned and the ADC will burst you down no matter how behind. Only way you can fail is if you got AP Runes and support masteries and only 6 doran's blades for some weird reason...
And now here it comes the "Your name is enough to make your comment not count for anything."... Because Katarina is so similar to ADC I'm guessing...
If you think Katarina is weak right now then you literally have no clue at all of what you are talking about.
zrWQMdGHtY1 votesNever said weak. Said slow and uncontrollable by the one using her, unlike every single other champion.
dominusx7 votesBRO it's simple. META revolves around DIVING BOT GETTING THE TOWER AND DRAGON then procces to snowball the lead with lane swaps and the game end around 25mins in especially high elo. 80% of my games end before 33mins you can check my macthhistory litterally. ADCS need to have a peacefull lane to farm POWERSPIKES but when you got a tank motherfcuker diving you every 3 minutes you WOTN FARM not get any XP and you CANT just afk farm bot when they take the tower because the ENEMY BOTLANE is gonna rotate top RAPE your toplane and take more towers. Remember previous season t0planes? you got dove 2-3 times in the 1st 16mins and you were a meatshield for the rest of the game that would get blown up faster than (insert savage as fuck semi racist joke that i dont need to use cause imma get banned)
Aptest6 votesadc's are not weak, they lack agency. that is a different issue.
SmileInABox5 votesHonestly another big problem is autofill supports. A lot of them don't understand how to just let you farm, and are always trying to pick fights. Piling that on with the inherent weakness of a solo'd bot lane, the fast clearing junglers, and the lack tower fortification also leads to the 4 man dive bullshit.
Lock On3 votesThere's no reason for me to play ADC except maybe Draven who carries enough damage to compensate for a weak support, which is often the case. Otherwise, why play in a duo lane where, while you may be powerful stats-wise, AOE burst will delete you from the game before you can finish a Banshee's veil or Mercurial, and by the time you grab those items, you're behind on damage compared to the other ADC. What both players have in common is the fact the disgusting bruisers or mages have become the real carry roles now. I can't remember the last time my 3/1/1 Jinx out of bot lane actually won us the game, when the 0/2/0 Yasuo can dash in and slaughter her, Zac can nearly 0-100 her by himself, Vi deletes her from the game unless she gets the fattest Janna shield of her life. Any attempt to kite before tier 2 boots, plenty of attack speed and a completed zeal item will get you killed trying. It's kind of damning to play ADC which requires so much careful positioning to make the most out of the role when I can just play Vi or Malphite jungle, snowball bot lane, render them useless because ADCs scale the hardest but the slowest because lack of gold and carry the game. I can play Veigar or Syndra and press R on the carry after I land my AOE stun which is stupid hard to miss.
It would be nice if ADCs and other squishies got a slight increase in health and maybe another 25 units of attack range so kiting is actually a viable option before 20 minutes.
Lugg3 votesThe power creep in the game is horrible now. 90% of all champs need straight damage nerfs at this point. While they are at it, they need to gut mobility as well.
Hexs Fortune2 votesADC are a win more class. They do well when their team is winning, but are pretty marginal when their team is losing
420 grams2 votesI think part of the problem is bot lane towers being weaker than the others, so it's collapsed on very easily.
King Merlin2 votesif they don't 2 shot the enemy
Doesn't seem to share this problem.
Venomar2 votesI think we are right smack dab in the middle of a meta shift and people aren't catching on yet. I'm seeing Champs like Tristana, Jinx, Kog'maw, and Sivir rise in not only popularity, but win rate was well.
When we see the jungle experience distribution changes play out over the next few weeks we're gonna get back to more predictable gank patterns and a lot of people are already starting to shift back over to thier favorite late game hyper carries. It's not a huge climb or representation and still pales in comparison to just twitch, Caitlyn and EZ alone but the growth in presence and win rate of these late game hyper item dependant ADCs is kind of making me scratch my head a bit as to where the meta is heading and what's going to come out in 7.1 since they've already been finding a lot success in the "bot lane gangbang" of 6.24.
Bot lane in 7.1 will be interesting for sure, I'm getting a feeling we're headed back into a more tanky meta and heavy siege/utility comps, but I could be way off. Regardless, it certainly seems to be shifting into "something" else.
preMatureSh00ter2 votesThe only part about adc's that needs to be reworked is the itemization. You are basically being forced to buy the same items pretty much every game. If riot fixes the itemization process with some kind of miracle, adc might actually be more enjoyable to play and have more impact on the game before 4 items.
Hunted90002 votesADC's are going to revert back to the older seasons where you see them building spirit visage or a banshee's
rtbf2216514121 votesIt depends if we want to go back a couple of patches or stay with the game pace. It's either ADC's have terrible base stats (Weak early game) or the game is too hard with the current changes for the game.
aspects11 votestherir either superstrong, cait twitch vayne and now draven, or super weak- everyone else
GrReaper962 votesWell 
has the 4th highest winrate in the game although hes played mid
aspects11 voteshes played ap mid tho, not ad
GrReaper961 votesNope mostly played hybrid 
Mimr1 votesWell
Corki needs levels as much as items, therefore he's a poor choice for botlane but an excellent choice for mid where he fulfills the role of poke mage (About 80% of his damage is magic despite scaling mainly with AD).
TheMinez1 votesI take the middle road between having an adc that needs to farm to get back in the game and having an adc that keeps getting doubles bot lane.
I play them in the jungle.
No need to last hit, there are no minions to steal your camps. No need to worry about your support, they are down bot lane. No need to poke the enemy adc, you can all in them when you gank. There is also the added benefit of being able to fill in for a bad adc late game AND be able to shut down the enemy front line by ganking top.
Adriqnohee1 votesI wonder when people will simply start putting ADCs in the mid lane so that they can safely farm, and put mages in the bot so they can handle the 4 vs 4 (3 vs 3 if ADC is the one mid) better, lets see if that Ziggs botlane pays off enough so that other mages become viable down there.
Chuck Charles1 votesAdc main here idk where anyone in these boards got the impression the theme is that adcs need buffs to the champs themselves (besides Lucian/Kalista).
All of us have been saying it's an itemization/mastery problem as well as a power curve problem.
It's why adcs DO suck. They take way too long to scale. When they scale they are gods but it takes way too long to get there. 4 items just to be relevant. And 5-6 items to reach god mode.
They are going to look at the power curve of adcs already they said as well as looking into giving adcs some agency earlier in the game. Personally that should be enough to calm the tides. Adcs need a less terribad curve. Shave some of that late game god mode for some kid game strength.
SlaktarTasken1 votesPlaying a mage now feels so satisfying, nothing like deleting an adc with just Q-W as leblanc post 200ish AP. Or watching 70-80% of their HP bar vanish with a single empowered Q as Karma after you finish ur first major ap item. Or instagibbing them with a single pillar as Brand. Or tossing peddobear at them as Annie for das trululululz.
And if that wasn't enough as a mage I have all the cc in the world to stunlock adc monkeys while I sht all over them. and 45% cdr because fuck it if you don't die the first time you can be fcking sure you'll die the second one, AP or no. :,^D
Yes, this is parody and yes the underlining meaning is that damage creep and abundant cdr has made cc fucking unbearable in this game. And guess which class is absolutely most vulnerable to it...
ADC's do fantastic damage, the reason why they are shit is because so does everything else, the games are often decided before ADC's can reach their overbearing draintank 1v5 status because muh autos zoh zkillfullz.
Mages nowadays don't even have to waste half their kits to nuke an adc to oblivion, not mentioning even having to use ults. Because nowadays basic abilites pretty much hit like ults used to once they get some scaling going. But duurh, uh zuh mich lurrss Eeeeh?-Pee - now, lost 50 eh?-pee OMG Muh less demege baaahbiiii.
The whole idea of getting rid of point and click cc's seems utterly fucking pointless when cdr/spammability means if they do miss/you juke, you can be goddamn sure they'll have more chances before you can get a drop on them or get out of range. Also, alot of if not most skillshot cc are so retardely easy to hit because of retardedly large hitboxes and fast travel speed they might as well count as point and click, baring stuff like Namis bubble.
Let deh h8 flow.
