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Antifun is bad, Riot admits this and yet

SH Azykan·3/29/2017, 7:17:12 AM·5 votes·1,710 views

So Riot has admitted in the past they are against anti-fun mechanics, and IIRC they claimed if a champ was fun enough to play AS it balanced out the unfun to play against Some champs still miss this mark by a long shot, and I have a few suggestions to help on some.

Blitzcrank still has a hook that can win a game off of just 1 skillshot landing past 30 minutes, doesnt feel rewarding to land, yet is god awful to get hit by. I have no solution to this because his hook is literally his whole identity at this point and that sucks

Fizz is allowed to exist, yeah he feels good to play as, but being vs one is so much worse. he can basically remove your adc from the game whenever he wants even if stupid behind and laning vs one forces an mr item rush just to not be repeatedly 100-0'd Nerf his E's base damage so he cant kill whole waves with it, buff his Q ratio if he falls off to hard because of it (also rewards building AP rather than just a bunch of extra scalings like lichbane, ludens, hextech items)

Ivern extremely low cd root that lasts a while + daisy's cc. if you get hit once not near minions and he has any ally you die 100% and playing him is not even remotely fun, just play him cause his kit is broken as is Increase his Q's cd at lower ranks, make him decide to max it or triggerseed first

Lulu you play a diver or juggernaut of any kind? better ban her because otherwise you literally have 0 impact if facing one. Make it where lulu's W only does a full polymorph if they are marked with her E, otherwise make it do a lesser effect so she cant E her adc W you and let her adc 3 hit you while you cannot do anything back 1 Malzahar space aids + crabs. oh joy. he used to be fun to play as that made it bearable. but now its just the most ridiculous passive in game + point and click removing people from the game Honestly needs his rework reverted or a new one, the new passive is absurdly strong and his crabs used to be rewarding for using your abilities well and now are just free absurd power.

Shaco 1 shot from stealth, gives 0 reaction time to his ganks and the boxes...yeah he is kinda fun to play as, but not nearly as bad as it feels to go against one. make his burst more delayed on his AP build, AD shaco imo is fine atm, but AP's damage with lichbane + runic on a backstab + E is gross and basically instant. we dont have enough vision available to us anymore to keep ward coverage up enough early game so it will eventually happen and it just feels awful to feel forced to tower hug at 70% hp because ap shaco might be hiding in raptors waiting for you to step out for a near 1 shot, especially if you pair him with a syndra or god forbid a ryze (point and click snare and you are dead)

Riot has done great with other anti fun kits being more bearable and more rewarding to play with recently. Hopefully they can do something with these guys. (and as always feel free to chime in on your own and maybe help with suggestions for blitz)

19 Comments

Troll for Trump3/29/2017, 8:06:39 AM4 votes

Blitzcrank 's gimmick is his hook, which isn't delayed like thresh. You either like it, or you don't. Fizz fk his troll pole, that's about it. Ivern is really unique, he's fine Lulu I don't like playing as her, or against her, but I can understand people hating getting jumped on. For them, getting jumped on is anti-fun, and Lulu is a solution (so is Janna) Malzahar Loathe his rework. His point-and-click ult is why he's picked, you need a reliable way to deal with sht that keeps running around 24/7 (yasuo) Shaco Assassinating from stealth needs to be developed further on other champions. Stealth as a whole needs some more thought. But assassins in stealth shouldn't be something to be feared. Looking forward to Eve update.

Asudurga3/29/2017, 7:36:01 AM1 votes

Gonna have to disagree with you on Ivern. He is the most fun and rewarding jungler to play due to the high amount of utility. Saving a team mate at such low health? Absolute bliss. Rooting a prime target in a team fight? Satisfying. Using Daisy to be the forefront of your assault? Makes you feel important.

Why Ivern is considered 'unfun' and 'overpowered' is because of the concept that utility is never bad. If you're gonna hate on Ivern for that why not include Janna as any Janna with a braincell can carry a team through utility she offers alone. While his root duration is an issue, it does not do nearly as much damage when using his normal recommended buildpath. The shield though, that so far has a high risk high reward scenario attributed to it. If Ivern shields himself to engage, he is actively putting himself at risk and relying on team mates and Daisy to back him up. The only reason his shields seem stronger than they should be is because of masteries like Runic and Windspeakers alongside item 3504 or item 3107 and item 3174 which boosts his shielding power and general utility with Athene's giving his shield a heal.

Ivern is a pain to fight, but it's playing smart which screws him over. Have someone ward and/or protect any buffs you are not going for and cut Ivern off if he tries to go for the invade as early in the game he's as squishy as wet mud.

Xavanic3/29/2017, 7:36:26 AM1 votes

You know whos really anti-fun...fiora and vayne, you literally cannot counterbuild their main source of dmg late game

ABlueQuaker3/29/2017, 7:49:16 AM1 votes

How is Graves not on this list? Cancerous Marksman-Assassin-Bruiser Hybrid with a low CD dash that can jungle, take no damage, then rock up to his enemy jungle with all pots/flash charges and full HP.

Maddmazz3/29/2017, 4:01:41 PM1 votes

Those are hardly the champs I think of when I think of needing balance. Fizz is cheap but MR does work and later game he seems to fall off. Blitz is good but getting hooked is on you. Get better at avoiding it or letting a tank be up front or bait it out.

Ivern should have a higher play rate if he is that OP. Lee Sin has 10x the play rate and half the WR but that won't stop people from trying to make bit LCS plays and losing. He is very useful but you can play him pretty straight up when it comes to team fighting.

Shaco falls off late game and I will just say KhaZix says hello.

Lucian is the biggest problem right now at 42.38% pick rate because he is so balanced at the moment.

Maddmazz3/30/2017, 3:00:51 AM1 votes

I look at those as bad plays by Lux and bad plays from Blitz if he is hooking a bomb.

Aszathoth3/31/2017, 3:41:35 AM1 votes

What about Satan himself? He doesn't even really win games, he's just obnoxious as all fuck. You could be crushing him but he's still annoying. Plus he practically encourages players to be toxic with how he plays

Frightning3/29/2017, 7:28:43 AM1 votes

Blitzcrank is fine, landing a hook on a squishy late game is hard if the enemy front line isn't trash and actually body block for their backline.

Fizz is pretty frustrating at times, but again, bodyblocking frontline helps a ton. I think his E CD should be higher by a bit (currently 9 secs base iirc, maybe should 12/11.5/11/10.5/10 instead).

Not sure where Ivern's at tbh, he seems really strong and has a high win rate, probably needs some light nerfs in the right places to bring him in line.

Lulu and Malzahar are fine. Lulu is supposed to be frustrating for divers, that's literally her job. Malzahar will only shit on you if you don't respect what he can do to you and come at him stupid.

Shaco is definitely pretty frustrating to deal with, of all the champs on this list, he is probably the only one that really does need some attention because of anti-fun mechanics. That said, he really requires a ton of skill to play well, so at least his frustration causing potential is gated by the skill requirement to pull it off.

RainXBlade3/31/2017, 3:50:18 AM1 votes

I'm gonna share my take on the champs mentioned by OP: Blitzcrank: He's not necessarily annoying but the fact that his selling point is the hook is unhealthy and binary imo. It's either, he's crap or he's a god if he ever lands it. Fizz: I hate his troll pole but other than that, he's pretty healthy to fight against imo. He gets all of his burst if he manages to land his shark from a distance (which let's be honest, his shark is relatively easy to dodge or to react to with Wind Wall if you're a Yasuo.) Ivern: He's a very annoying support/jungler yes, but is easy to deal with tbh. All he can do is apply shields and have Daisy CC the enemy. If the carries are dumb, then he's useless as well. Also, his passive saps up a lot of HP and mana in the early game and can't counter jg too often if low or enemy jungle's well warded. Lulu: Very annoying overall. Not gonna lie, this support just gives me a headache because of how she can disengage anyone by just W'ing or ulting herself or the carry. Malzahar: I used to main him before the rework. And yeah, pre- and post-rework, this guy was overall unhealthy to play against, but more on the post-rework version. His reworked form is as messed up as Graves imo. Shaco: Frustrating in the early game, but will either be useless or a split-push machine in the late game. Fair trade-off, but still unhealthy because it's Shaco.