Champions like Swain, Kindred, and Zed jumped in play/winrate/banrate, but why did Pantheon? Last I checked he didn't get any direct changes, but when I check OP.GG he's the #2 top laner (behind Swain) and in the top 5 junglers.
Xanit6 votesProbably because he has nothing but targeted skills and guaranteed damage, and all of his best items are being buffed, so there's no excuse for him not to be using them to their fullest potential every time he's picked. ...Basically, Pantheon is bad game design, and as such makes huge leaps in statistics that Riot cannot balance around. He needs to be made into something fair and fun.
Bears Dont Care2 votes...Basically, Pantheon is bad game design,
That's right guys, guaranteed damage is bad and bad game design! Champions who see higher win rates because the items they use get buffed should be drastically changed. Kappa
ModWulf Helhammer1 votesWhen litterally everything you do is targeted, and you have the lockdown and burst to push nearly anyone out of lane, allowing free farm, it kinda is. The problem with Pantheon is that there is no real ability to play off of him short of staying out of range. You go in range? He pokes you with spears until you get low, and then he stuns and uses the spearjab with the guarenteed crit to take you down. Add to that the durability bruiser items provide and his passive, and it gets to be a bit of a problem. Likely the reason Riot has never done much too him is because he has a low playrate, or they are holding out for a rework.
Bears Dont Care1 votesWhen litterally everything you do is targeted, and you have the lockdown and burst to push nearly anyone out of lane, allowing free farm, it kinda is.
Umm...Pantheon doesn't have the ability to push nearly everyone out of lane. He is mitigated by his high mana costs in early game, and reliance on being relatively close range. Champions such as Xerath who can poke at him completely hinder his effectiveness. Champions such as Malphite can withstand his damage til he bottoms out.
There are many champions with click and point damage/CC, but that does not mean they are a problem. Considering Pantheon also does not scale well due to how the game works, he is actually one of the more balanced champions in the game.
The problem with Pantheon is that there is no real ability to play off of him short of staying out of range.
SO...a champion needs to have his abilities to be dodgeable, in order for there to be "play" against him. So...building armor, abusing his relatively short range...abusing his high mana costs. That's not playing off against him?
Thisis the problem I have with League of Legend, ther eis this idea that unless you can dodge it, then there is no "play" against the champion.
You go in range? He pokes you with spears until you get low, and then he stuns and uses the spearjab with the guarenteed crit to take you down. Add to that the durability bruiser items provide and his passive, and it gets to be a bit of a problem. Likely the reason Riot has never done much too him is because he has a low playrate, or they are holding out for a rework.
Or...probably...and this might be a shocker.
He isn't an issue.
Vekkna3 votesGuaranteed damage isn't inherently bad. Having a kit composed of unavoidable damage and cc with low counterplay is bad, especially when the cc is a stun and the damage scales at a 4.8 bonus AD ratio.
If you compare Pantheon's numbers to most other champs, it's pretty obvious why his design is inherently problematic. His overall scaling is not out of line (though it's on the high end), but it's all crammed into two abilities he can access pre-6 instead of being spread out across his kit.
Second, the cooldown on his Q is disproportionately short for being targeted ranged damage with such a high bonus AD ratio.
After building a Ghostblade for 3200g he gets 117 extra damage on his Q (140 if you factor arpen) and 195 extra damage on his E (234 w/ arpen). That's 312 unavoidable damage from scaling off one item (374 w/ pen). That's the AP scaling/gold cost equivalent of a 1.4 ratio on Q and 2.3 ratio on E. Nothing even remotely like that exists on other champs. It would be like Annie building Luden's and dealing Tibbers damage on her fire cone.
Bears Dont Care2 votesGuaranteed damage isn't inherently bad. Having a kit composed of unavoidable damage and cc with low counterplay is bad, especially when the cc is a stun and the damage scales at a 4.8 bonus AD ratio.
If you compare Pantheon's numbers to most other champs, it's pretty obvious why his design is inherently problematic. His overall scaling is not out of line (though it's on the high end), but it's all crammed into two abilities he can access pre-6 instead of being spread out across his kit.
You do realize champions such as Zed, Talon, and Lee Sin outscale him, and have abilities which guarantee higher overall damage. In the case of Talon, his abilities are essentially unavoidable, and Lee Sin has many methods of landing his abilities at point blank range while possessing superior CC.
Furthermore, Pantheon's E damage is channeled, meaning if you move out of range, have tenacity allowing you to move early, his overall damage drops significantly. THis is also why he scales poorly into late game. He loses the ability to dish out the damage he needs due to team fighting and the ability to CC him rather easily. On top of this, he is a champion who goes all in with no ability to escape, unlike champions such as Zed an Leblanc who outburst him and have higher ombility.
What would you do to compensate Pantheon by "creating" more "play" against him? Frankly, it doesn't sound like the issue is a matter of balance, but more that you are unhappy to play against him. This is acceptable, not all champions should have the same method of counterplay. This creates homogeneity and is what makes the game poor. Think about it, Master Yi and Warwick have similar functions in terms of dealing damage. How they deal damag eis what differentiates them besides both being AA'ers
Abuse his short range and high mana costs. GO a tanky champion. Exploit his weaknesses instead of complaining about strength.
Second, the cooldown on his Q is disproportionately short for being targeted ranged damage with such a high bonus AD ratio.
Probably because it has a high mana cost to compensate? That's like complaining about Warwick's Q giving him too much sustain in the jungle due to the CD
After building a Ghostblade for 3200g he gets 117 extra damage on his Q (140 if you factor arpen) and 195 extra damage on his E (234 w/ arpen). That's 312 unavoidable damage from scaling off one item (374 w/ pen). That's the AP scaling/gold cost equivalent of a 1.4 ratio on Q and 2.3 ratio on E. Nothing even remotely like that exists on other champs. It would be like Annie building Luden's and dealing Tibbers damage on her fire cone.
Wait wait wait...you're saying a champion that relies on two abilities to deal most of his damage...has high AD ratios on those abilities? Gee... that sounds like terrible logic. Why should a champion who relies on two abilities to deal damage...have high AD ratios? Especially when one is a channel? Probably because he relies on two abilities.
Let us consider Talon, Zed, Annie, Leblanc, Ryze. All of these champions rely on 3 to 4 abilities to deal damage. In fact, they all outscale Pantheon because of it.
That's like complaining about the fact a Warwick who builds Nashor's, Wit's end, botrk, bloodrazor deals too much damage with his ultimate. It is his main method of dealing damage, why wouldn't it benefit the most from his respective build?
Let us instead complain about Lee Sin. Builds the same items as Pantheon...deals more damage with better CC and mobility. Ah wait...he uses 4 abilities to deal damage so its okay for him to have that 2.0 AD scaling (not considering arpen because arpen is reliant upon the amount of armor the target possesses. Which is why everytim you bring up arpen as a factor of amazing damage scaling you sound obnoxious.)
In fact...forget it.
Let's just rename League to "DODGEBALL"
Make every ability a scale shot dealing 2.0 AP/AD. Now everyone has the same counterplay...as people desire. They'll still complain about it being too hard to ddoge though!
Vekkna2 votesI think you sort of missed my point. I like Pantheon overall, but it sucks hard to play against him early because he's extremely oppressive. And it sucks hard to play AS him late because, as you described, he falls off extremely hard in teamfights.
IMO, he would be a healthier and more rewarding champ to play if he had higher base damage, lower scaling, and could be tankier late game to stay more relevant.
Bears Dont Care1 votesI think you sort of missed my point. I like Pantheon overall, but it sucks hard to play against him early because he's extremely oppressive. And it sucks hard to play AS him late because, as you described, he falls off extremely hard in teamfights.
IMO, he would be a healthier and more rewarding champ to play if he had higher base damage, lower scaling, and could be tankier late game to stay more relevant. Except that would do the opposite. You would be giving him an even stronger early game for an even weaker late game. I am not sure you realize how that works.
Vekkna1 votesNo, it would do exactly as I described. Pantheon's base damages start on the low end and don't scale particularly well with power ranks. If his base damages scaled higher with rank, that damage is gated by time/exp.
His current situation is that he gets big power spikes early game after each AD purchase and then snowballs very quickly off the gold he gets from early kills. Shifting some of his AD scaling to his ult would make him less oppressive 1-5. In the alternative, you could shift a bit of his E scaling to his W and give his W actual counterplay.
Increasing base damage scaling at ranks 4 and 5 would mean he's doing less damage 1-7, breaks even at 8 or 9, and then starts doing more damage around level or 12.
That's usually the point where he runs into trouble if he's not fed. Increasing his base damage from that point on lets him build tankier without falling off a cliff. Instead of struggling in later teamfights, he would be able to initiate more safely without sacrificing lots of damage.
Lowering his damage early game and keeping him damage neutral but tankier in late game wouldn't do the opposite.
Ralanr1 votesHe wasn't bad game design when he was released (compared to champions of that time), but as the game evolved he hasn't meshed well.
Or he has and people outright hate him.
BeatzBoyFTW2 votesPlease stop ignoring playrates ffs.
Weathered1 votes24th pickrate of 131 champs, 4th winrate :/
Veraska2 votesBlack cleaver is his favorite item and it got buffed
Weathered2 votesBIngo that makes sense
MunchCrunchLunch2 voteslets see his items are really strong. his ad ratios are stupid as fuck. go ahead buy armor. he will chunk half your health with his point and click stun and his rotation. i wonder what would happen if his ultimate was actually a point and click damage ult. hes just point and click and obnoxious to play against.
i rush a sunfire cape and still lost 60% of my health with one combo. if your squishy stun E and Q kills you. hes literally an ad version of leblanc.
also his passive makes him dive turrets easily. he can dive you under turret and get out while doing more damage to you at level 6.
Only Play Darius2 votesPanth has been good since the start of the season. Strong early game dueling, unfair ganks and easy roams means he thrives in the current meta. There were just other champions that were more of a pick/ban priority than him.
Zero Skill Tank1 voteskhu khu BC khu khu
DarthSpectrum1 votesThe 
and 
changes really favors Pantheon.
Games also end earlier now, so Pantheon does not have to suffer his poor late game as much. Ever since the pre-season changes, Pantheon has held one of the highest win rates for top, jg, and even mid. (He is also a great soloQ pick as he can dominate lane and does not need coordination from his team to be played effectively.)
LadyRenly1 votespantheons been good for a long time
Irelia Bot1 votesIf I know I am facing Panth top I will pick karma just to make him have as bad of a time as I would going as a melee. Shield and W negate most of his threat.
If he didn't have fairly high mana costs limiting his laning he would be way to strong against other melee but here is a prime example of how mana can be a proper gating tool to a otherwise fairly strong kit VS a fair number of champs.
EndlessSorcerer1 votesArmor Quints (with either flat or scaling armor seals) are wonderful when dealing with champions Pantheon.
You become almost unkillable when combined with Cloth Armor or Corrupting Potion and you can just out-sustain his mana.
I have one of those pages with attack speed (and an equivalent for MR) for champions like Malphite and Irelia against AD lane bullies.
Irelia Bot1 votesI too have armor rune pages ready should I need them but that is not the point I was trying to make.
The point I was trying to make is that he has real counters and limits.
EndlessSorcerer1 votesOh, I understand that and agree with you.
Just wanted to add another option.
hOrnn1 votesAlso champs like chogath and illio are orobs gudd vs him
hOrnn1 votesManaged to beat him top with rengar, brush play early in bunched minions to make him miss stun because bronze i ysed to play alot of panth and u can tell u people list renekton as bad vs him but i could never kill him, way to tanky with sustain, i always have trouble vs renekton unless im kennen.
Fovere1 votesPanth has been around for many yerars without a problem.
Magically now its his champion design that is bad.
People just don't know how to think anymore