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Now that Riot admitted they bungled Fiora...

The Whamboozler··3 votes·1,072 views

I thought I would make this thread to collect ideas since Riot's post about Fiora met with so much negative feedback that I have heard (fingers crossed) that she's getting a second rework. This part may not be true, but if it is, I want there to be a place where fans can put their feedback on what they want to see... and hopefully Riot won't bungle it again. Consider this a post for suggestions to champion changes in general, with the focus being on Fiora. Try and keep it clean though, Rito won't pay this much mind if it's just a bash-fest of insults and anger. Constructive ideas please. My own personal ideas are below.

Fiora. First off... fix her art. Fix her in-game model. Make them look like the old models she had. Royal guard especially got trashed in the rework. Not much else to say there. Everyone was already content with Fiora's old models and art, so go back to them and give them a new coat of paint. PLEASE bring back the three-part cape. It was the coolest part of her character model. Old Fiora to me was "skill and style". Would her hair get in her eyes a little? Yeah. Is the cape impractical? Yeah. But y'know... so are garen's shoulderpads. She wants to kick your butt and look good while doing it. Not sexy good... she's not in a bikini and skimpy clothes wouldn't fit her. STYLISH. She's an aristocrat and a swashbuckler. Not much else to say there. Bring back her old look.

Her kit however is a whole separate beast. Her new Q seems fine... it's better than her old. No longer useable twice but able to be used to hop walls or just flee from ganks. It's fine. Her Riposte is also good. It's very useful but hard to use, and mastering it is what makes a good Fiora player good. It can stay as it is. Her E is.... ok. It's functional, I guess... if lackluster. I'd like to see something more flashy than a simple AA reset and steroid, but it works. Maybe give it a cool animation or a sound clip that plays if she nails a champion with it. Her passive and ult are what needs tweaking. % True damage is a lazy and loathed mechanic, but her old passive was crap so we don't want to revert it. Perhaps something like Xin Zhao's passive, where she gets bonuses vs the opponent she's focusing on? Or perhaps a "First Blood" style mechanic, where she gains bonus damage (Auto crit?) to enemies who haven't hurt her yet. The former would make her strong in 1v1 duels, the later would be better for in-lane harass and would let her dart from foe to foe in teamfights, scoring powerful hits.

Lastly, her ult. A lot of people hate her ult for being unfitting. I agree with those people, even if I have to admit it's insanely strong. Problem is, it's not Fiora's ult... it's Aatrox's. More on that below. For Fiora, my idea was a short dash like her Q, that ends in a lockdown-style ult if it lands. This allows it to be dodged or blocked by a tank or something. Counterplay! If it hits, Fiora suppresses the enemy for a second or two as she furiously stabs, slashes and jabs at them, kinda like Warwick's ult. During this time a haughty french laugh is MANDATORY. The ult would do low damage initially, with the bulk of the damage coming at the end of the suppress when she tires of toying with the enemy and gives a massive, satisfying thrust of her blade into their heart. The Coup De Grace. (In fact, name her ult Coup De Grace... it's perfect) Again, this NEEDS to have a sound clip attached to make it feel awesome. I like the idea of a dismissive but intense "STAY DOWN.". The final hit of Coup De Grace could apply on-hits and be able to crit, giving her the option of several build paths for optimizing for it. The weaker hits probably shouldn't do either, as it will force the ability into a WW situation where he HAS to build on-hit items for hit ult to be anything but a long suppress.

This ult makes Fiora more a 1v1 powerhouse and less of a teamfighter... BUT... being able to lock down a priority target can be very strong in a teamfight, it would just require her to be smart about when to use it. SKILLFUL even. She can't dive into 5 people hoping to get a kill and then auto-win the fight with her ult's healing proc. Her ult could be dodged, blocked or someone could CC her out of it before the final, powerful hit. For all these downsides, it should be VERY powerful. This will make Fiora a scary splitpusher. People will see her shoving top and say "crap, Fiora is top... I need help. I can't duel her." Of course you can't... she's a DUELIST! If they want to add more counterplay to it, allow enemies to activate defensive abilities that block auto attacks or the like during her ult. This would... kinda make Jax her most brutal counter ever, and Fiora could W herself to negate her own ult... but eh... two counters isn't that bad. Letting them activate shields and invulnerabilties powers is sketchy... but possible. It would mean laning against her is rough if you don't counter pick her, but you could bring heal or barrier to try and make her misjudge her ult's damage. Not sure about this part... The point is, there are options to work around it and make it less oppressive, so it should be amazing if it lands right. Hell, give her a sound clip line she can use if someone interrupts her ult! Ulting a carry only to eat a stun and hear her mutter "Where is your honor?" "Afraid to face me?" "Dishonorable swine" or "Cowards." would feel cool. Be creative!

After that rant, I have only one more thing to add. Fiora's old ult should NOT be removed from the game. It should be reworked a little to remove the % True damage BS and given to Aatrox . It fits him so hard. People were really upset after Aatrox's reveal when his lore of "Aatrox sweeps into the side of the underdogs, inspiring them to bloodlust and victory... yadda yadda" never entered his gameplay. His actual kit is as generic and cookie cutter as it comes and he lacks anything involving inspiring people or aiding his team. So give him Fiora's ult! It would perfectly fit a being like him to dive into a fight, cut someone down with grace and brutality and for the display to inspire his team to new vigor and turn the tide of the fight. That's WHAT HE DOES... Even if he dies doing it. (He'll be back anyway, stupid passive) Seriously, this ability fits him so much that it's sad it wasn't given to him. He is a supernatural being that inspires bloodlust and turns around losing fights. Fiora is a.... really skilled fencer. Who should have the giant magical-looking AoE healing circle? Riot can save TWO champions here with this change! Just... change the % true damage thing a bit. It's a lousy mechanic.

Ranting over. What are your ideas everyone? For Fiora... for her art... for her kit... for everything! Let's collect our ideas in one place and hope Riot takes notice when (If?) they fix or rework her for the second time. We don't want her to turn into another Skarner after all... fixed porrly twice and left to rot. Maybe in time we can get Riot to fix all of the lousy choices they've inflicted on our favorite champs. And maybe someday DFG.Garen will come back. What?! I can dream.

27 Comments

The Sword Saint7 votes

Everyone but a small group of rabid haters thinks they nailed the gameplay rework, the only thing that has any controversy is the new model and artwork. If they make a change (they won't), it will just be on the models and art. Most likely they are just going to use it as a learning experience for handling drastic artistic direction changes better in the future.

The Whamboozler2 votes

Forty five people will pop in here to tell me I'm wrong, but not a single person will say "well, he asked for what I'd like to see with Fiora, and it's this..."

Seriously dude... the point of the post was to talk about ideas... not because I think Riot is gonna USE any of them. They're too far up their own butts. I'll be happy if they made her look less awful. I just wanted to brainstorm with other Fiora fans what they think would be cool for her. Instead I've got a ton of people popping in for NO other reason but to comment "AH-HA! A PERSON IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET! I MUST INFORM HIM AND COLLECT MY MEDAL FOR DOING SO!".

If you don't want to talk about Fiora... why the hell are you here?

The Sword Saint3 votes

Because I play a lot of fiora now and also did prerework and here's the thing: shes's better in every way. Gameplay, model, splash art, everything. Would I have preferred a few different changes for her art, yea, but the ones we did get are a vast improvement over the old one.

Also, I like riot. I like how they make their game and have faith in them as a player. I know that makes me a minority as someone on the forums, but if I don't post then people get to yell into their echo chambers and trick themselves into thinking that their opinions are held by everyone just because noone has vocally disagreed.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Ok, well at least that's an opinion on topic. At least, half of it was. So you like the rework entirely, enjoy the new kit, model and art and don't want it changed.

Guess what? That's ok! I might diagree with you, but the point of this post was for people to speak their mind on Fiora and what THEY would want to see happen to her if they had that call. You wouldn't change her. Cool. Then after that you kinda slipped into a different topic about having faith in riot and it got kinda condescending and smug. Meh... I get that way too when I'm passionate about something. S'all good.

If you'd like to share WHY you like the Fiora rework, I'd love to hear it. I'd like to get the reasoning for it from someone who thinks it's good. What makes it better, do you think? Why do you like it?

The Sword Saint2 votes

Mechanically everything about rework far better captures the fantasy of a fencer than the old fiora every did. A passive that represents a large portion of her power budget and forces fiora to look for openings to strike from different directions is much preferred over a few hp5 stacks after autoing things, q being on a lower cooldown and emphasizing footwork and has to be aimed instead of a double tap unit targetted gap closer nuke feels far smoother and more skillful in addition to having more utility than before, riposte is now a actually a counter skill that can be used reliably in a variety of situations as opposed to a button that basically says 'adcs don't get to hurt you late game but to everyone else you have no w', the new e gives fiora the little bit of cc she needs in the form of a slow to be more of a team player than before and actually allows her to help in a gank or when catching a target out of position while its 'never crit, always crit' nature when combined with her q being on low cooldown and never criting along with her need to hit her passive ensures that building crit chance on fiora is horribly inefficient - which is a clever and necessary thing to enforce to make sure that new fiora doesn't fall back into 'build melee adc and right click' and is forced instead to play around her fencing mechanics. The ult doubles down on her passive and allows the player to essentially manually simulate her old blade waltz but with interaction on both sides, in exchange for giving a conditional heal reward which serves to make her have just enough utility to not be 100% dead weight when behind or hit 3 targeted buttons and auto destroy a whole team the way old fiora was.

Artwise I personally find her new base splash art amazing. I love her pose which matches up with my mental image of a fencer at the ready so much that I usually use her base skin now despite having all of her skins including headmaster and project. Her in game model is just plain better in terms of poly count, detail, animation quality, etc. I'm not 100% about the shoulder cape and I would have preferred a slightly younger looking face for her but hitting the mark 90% of the way with some personal taste not matching up is pretty impressive I'd say.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Ok... well put.

I'm with you on her passive change. Her old was so lame I rarely noticed it was there. I still think that % true damage is a really lame gimmick tho. I mean, of course it's good and strong. It's % true damage. Give that to ANY champ and they suddenly become a serious damage threat. It's a pretty bad mechanic I'd like to see league lose in general. This is the main reason I dislike the new passive.

Her new Q is solid and an improvement over her old. It makes her more mobile in exchange for losing her ability to double tap with it... a net win for her. Her new Riposte I also like. It's the ability that requires the most skill on her end and it's very useful but very difficult to use well.

Her E though I feel is a little.... lack luster. It lacks panache. Flair. It's mechanically solid and it certainly works for her, but it seems pretty simple. The idea you mentioned of it both catering to AND discouraging crit builds on her I hadn't really thought of that way, but I don't think that matters TOO terribly much. Most AD fighter types go for off-tank bruiser builds over glass-cannon crit builds. The ones who don't are people like Yi, Yasuo and Tryndamere... two of whom can become invulnerable for a short time and one of whom is Yasuo and gets full crit from two items allowing him to go tankier afterwards if he wants. Glass cannon melee types blow up too fast. I don't think they set her E up like they did to discourage crits, really... and if they did I don't think it made a huge deal. Crit Fiora probably wasn't gonna be a very viable build on her anyway. Old Fiora rarely cared about crit either, so this isn't much of a change. I might like her new E more if it felt cooler to use. It lacks style.

Her ult is the main issue I (And most people who dislike her kit) have with her. And it is 110% a style thing. I think her ult is goofy for a fencer. She heals her allies through the potent magical powers of first degree murder. Yeah, I know... she "inspires" people to glory or whatever. It's a handwave excuse to make it seem fitting. It doesn't. That's just my personal opinion. Also it is strongly tied to the % true damage mechanic that I dislike. I'd rather see her get an ability that feels like a Coup De Grace or a fencing maneuver or technique... or failing that something that plays up her personal skill and pride. I've said it in a ton of threads now, but AATROX is the one who should be doing the "murders a guy and inspires his team to fight harder/give in to bloodlust" thing. That is literally his lore. Fiora is all about proving her skill in 1v1 duels... She probably SHOULD have an ult that makes her stronger 1v1 than in teamfights. It makes sense! She should NOT have a heal. She's neither a mage nor a support.

The art is... subjective. I can't really disagree with your tastes, nor you with mine. I dislike her white dress-thing and her awful new cape. I REALLY dislike her face. They played up the "french jerk" stereotype so hard for her that she looks like she looks like she's about to scold children for playing on her lawn, not stab you to death. She lost her style. She doesn't seem happy. Smug. Confident. She's no longer amused at you opposing her because she knows she's going to hand you your ass... she's SUPER SERIOUS CONSTIPATED FACE OMFG I MUST PROVE MYSELF. She lacks the mood that old Fiora had to me, I suppose.

They could have easily taken all them fancy new polygons and made her look like a nicer version of her old art. Saying it's nicer because it's higher res is kinda shallow. Which looks nicer... a pretty girl in an old black and white photo or a donkey on a high res digital camera? They could have made her new model look like Ronald McDonald and she'd have had more polys and a cleaner visual look. The tech updated. It doesn't mean Fiora McDonald would have been a good rework! I see missed greatness in her rework. It could have been really good.

And there is still NO excuse for her walk animation. Ever. At all. EVER.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

they only talked about the visual aspects of her rework as a failure, as they didnt resonate well with the fiora mains.

they consider her new kit to be a complete success.

if anything comes out of this for other reworked champs, i hope they take another look at garen and give him a bit of his old personality back. maybe even his punch animation and skysword. as long as they make him look at least a bit less like an angry brute and more reserved and in control of himself as pre VU garen.

The Whamboozler1 votes

That doesn't mean people can't give their ideas for her... both visually and kit-wise.

Sightless663 votes

If that was all you wanted to do, that would be one thing, but you very strongly imply that fans are dissatisfied with her new kit. People think that is wrong, and they're going to respond to that.

Ralanr1 votes

Nail. Head.

The Whamboozler1 votes

In the other Fiora thread there are, in fact, a bunch of people posting that they dislike her new kit... her ult mostly. But y'know... hey. Just because you're not one of them means NO ONE is, right?

Seriously. If you're not here to talk Fiora and what you'd like to see happen with her... why post here at all? No posts would be better than 40-some post of people nitpicking apart any little thing they can to say "Well... you said this, but...."

It's a freakin' post about Fiora. If you're not one of the people who disliked her old ult.... FINE. Hell... I'm not even against you speaking up as to why you like the current one. But THAT is the topic. Fiora. Not nitpicking all my words to find some fault and throw it in my face. Ok?

Sasogwa2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fFtWwn5L,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-02T22:03:40.695+0000)

they only talked about the visual aspects of her rework as a failure, as they didnt resonate well with the fiora mains.

they consider her new kit to be a complete success.

if anything comes out of this for other reworked champs, i hope they take another look at garen and give him a bit of his old personality back. maybe even his punch animation and skysword. as long as they make him look at least a bit less like an angry brute and more reserved and in control of himself as pre VU garen.

A lot of people seem to have forgotten that already, but it was the same for Nasus visual rework. They made him look like an angry beast dog, which he isn't at all according to lore.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fFtWwn5L,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-02T22:03:40.695+0000)

they only talked about the visual aspects of her rework as a failure, as they didnt resonate well with the fiora mains.

they consider her new kit to be a complete success.

if anything comes out of this for other reworked champs, i hope they take another look at garen and give him a bit of his old personality back. maybe even his punch animation and skysword. as long as they make him look at least a bit less like an angry brute and more reserved and in control of himself as pre VU garen.

I was really bummed that they completely changed Poppy's personality. They even said back when they started working on the Poppy rework that they recognized players thought of her as 'grumpy-cute' but apparently completely abandoned that. I doubt they can fix that at this point since it would require a complete visual and lore rework compared to what she has now.

Quepha3 votes

Did you read the article? It says people like her kit and the only problems were her splash art and face. All they need to do is change her skull to not have those giant alien-looking cheekbones and it'll be all good.

The Whamboozler2 votes

Yes, I read he article. I was the top comment, last I checked, due to a lot of people there weighing in and agreeing with the dislike of the new Fiora. Many disliked her art. Some disliked her kit. That was the point of this post... to talk with those people and see what people wanted to see happen with Fiora. I do not expect Riot will care. I do not need you to tell me what people think. If you don't have any input on Fiora... you don't need to come in here and post.

Sheesh.

F032 votes

If you scrolled down to the bottom of that post you would have seen the part where riot said

"... we know we ducked up but we're not going to fix it but instead move forward while learning from the mistake that was fiora"

Paraphrasing

Julius Evola1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/QqEVAVPR-fire-a-of-laurent

And Ive made multiple threads explaining why the new Fiora made me quit league of legends. Its bad champion design. Duck-Duck-Goose is not a mechanic. The artwork is Disney. And toxic lane bullies are bad for league.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I'd like her to be good at selective things, rather than decent at everything in terms of being a duelist.

The Deckowner1 votes

idc about her kit getting changed, the new kit is fine except the ult heal is kinda bullshit, but they need to revert her visual.

The Whamboozler1 votes

I'd be happy with that, honestly. I miss her old visuals. The thread was just a lark for people give their own ideas of what they'd want Fiora to do since a lot of people seemed to dislike her ult in the main Fiora page. So far it's mostly just been people saying "they won't change her kit". I know they won't. It was just for the sake of discussion.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

I think there gonna redo her visuals they said way too many things that would be out of place normally, if not then I'll be pissed they used her as a guinea pig and act like it's ok because if the whole message was "oh we messed up Fiora but at least we got poppy right lolololololol"

The Whamboozler1 votes

They very well MIGHT do that. I mean, they trashed Cass both in kit and slightly downgraded her in-game model (yay horse face!) and they won't even TALK about her.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

thats something that confused me too, like when the redid MF they gave her an amazing model yet Fiora and even Cass get bad models :|

Ràinbow1 votes

I hope the negative comments don't ever stop you from speaking your mind because I for one really adore that about you! (I see you a lot in Fiora threads, LOL.) Ex-Fiora main here, hi. <3

Anyway, first order of business is to revert her art. ALL of it. Her splash, models, hair, 3-part cape, walking animation, everything...

I wouldn't really mind if her vitals were kept (if they do indeed rework her)

Her Q.. Definitely needs to be a dash, or some form of gap-closer/escape. I always thought Ekko's tumble could fit Fiora really well. Making her leap/step into any direction and then gracefully/swiftly lunging to her/an opponent. That's the dream omg. <3

Her W.. I actually like her current W, so I wouldn't mind whether or not if it's changed.

Her E.. Extremely lackluster and boring. Rework it into some more graceful and quicker. Fiora dashes to her opponent (really, really short ranged) and jabs her opponent 3 times before knocking them back (really, really small knock-back..). Like how Quinn's displaces her opponent with her Vault.

Her R.. I really like the idea you have, the Coup De Grace. <3

The Whamboozler1 votes

Holy crap, positive feedback! Thank you. I'm not used to it. My rant in the main Fiora thread got a ton of upvotes and people supporting it. I suppose I was a fool to expect a thread I made on my own to get the same.

But thanks for adding your ideas! That was the whole point here... to talk about what we'd love to see, even if Riot is probably going to keep her kit as-is. I'm shaky on her current E too. It's not BAD it just lacks.... panache. You like the idea of a knockback? It could work. Perhaps a quick combo like you'd see in a musketeers movie. A quick slash to distract, followed by a graceful kick to stun them and/or push them back a little. Show that those long legs aren't just for running around like a gazelle.

Ràinbow1 votes

Oh, I know because I was one of those people that upvoted you. Literally everything you wrote has what I've felt ever since her update dropped. Legit, everything. lol

Yeah, after I seen this (skip to 1:44) I always thought some sort of displacement would look really cool on her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAbmHvJlHg

The Whamboozler1 votes

Ahhhh, back in the day. I love those videos. But yeah, the pile of bullcrap on boards is insane. Post anything at all and a wave of ninjas fly out of the woodwork to pour over your post with a fine-toothed comb, ripping into you for any error, typo, poorly phrased topic or what have you. Honestly, that Fiora post was the only thing I've ever put on here that wasn't immediately downvoted or bashed by people for... no real reason. Just to bash stuff, I think. People like to tell other people they're wrong.

I think it's because it was on the main page for so long that people actually freakin' saw the thing, while most posts on boards are only seen the be handful of lunatics that bother to come here. Grumpy, surly little trolls that live under bridges and hurl downvotes and scorn about like spit from the lips of a man with a cleft-palate.

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