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Oddities With AoE Cones

RIP Tahm Kench··38 votes·2,371 views

I don't think many people have really noticed this before, but cone skills acquire targets at the start of cast times, which could lead to disorientation for enemy players. I think it's the most obvious with Darius, I have pulled people in after they have flashed over a wall or teleported away, and it almost always prompts a "wtf" from the enemy.

At first I thought it was just how Darius's pull was coded, but now that assassins have flooded mid lane I've been taking Cho mid for his silence. Even with that I've started to notice the cone affecting people that shouldn't be hit, like casting the silence just as kat shunpo's behind me, or even her getting hit as she shunpo's out of vision range.

Now I don't know if any other champions have a long cast time attached to a cone ability (Annie and Morde's cast times are very short in comparison) but I think this gameplay discrepancy should be fixed before it becomes problematic. I mean I'll miss killing people that flash a mile away with my scream, but if that means I can get a minor range buff on it (just so I can hit melee and range minions with one cast) I would be alright with it.

Edit: The only reason I don't bring up how every other targeted ability interacts with flash is just because those aren't ground targeted. Comparing them to other ground targeted AoE abilities, if you were to walk out of Brand's pillar of flame indicator, you can expect to not get hit, yet if you flash after Darius brings out his axe but before he pulls it, it still counts you as in the area.

26 Comments

Captain Aishi11 votes

it also affects cassiopeia's ultimate, pretty funny to see someone flash in aposition where they face away from you and then get turned to stone :S

this all started when they "fixed" cone cast abilities so that they wouldn't go haywire if you cast them after using a dash ability (flash cass ult, annie W or flash darius pull would cast it in the opposite direction of where you clicked)

Chaotic Reks2 votes

no this has been like this even before that.

Captain Aishi2 votes

darius pulling people who flash away was fixed, but reintroduced with the patch i mentioned

DUDE BRO2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFAL242MiBM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb7kd9Lkiog It's always worked that way when spells have slight cast times.

Captain Aishi2 votes

fling is a point and click ability, flashing away from it once it starts casting doesn't cancel the ability, just like you can't flash away from darius ulting you, or pantheon throwing a Q at you, so it's not related to cone-shaped skillshots skarner ult is also a point and click ability, but this one has been patched so it's casting cancels when someone gets out of range (technically you can't do what's shown in the clip at all anymore)

Aids cuz League3 votes

Another thing that helps commit these annoying cone/skill items and everyone cries about it, is the delay we get on the East Coast, I've been caught so many times like this that its almost annoying and it usually results in me dying everytime it happens and I waste flash because I shouldve gotten away, but the game/server said "Nah bitch, you gon die"

Meep Man2 votes

{quoted}

Another thing that helps commit these annoying cone/skill items and everyone cries about it, is the delay we get on the East Coast, I've been caught so many times like this that its almost annoying and it usually results in me dying everytime it happens and I waste flash because I shouldve gotten away, but the game/server said "Nah bitch, you gon die"

We East Coasters know the hard life in LoL with constant 120-180 ping when everything is steady

RIP Tahm Kench1 votes

All of these abilities shown are targeted abilities which function like auto attacks, when you start the animation it will always finish (except for rework skarner). This is useful because just think if you could just walk away from melee autoattacks, they would never get to hit you unless you actually stood still.

Cone abilities are different because they look like ground targeted AoE abilities like Brand's fire pillar or Cho's rupture, but it actually acquires targets just like a targeted ability/autoattack, with the exception that it will hit everything in the area instead of just one person.

SouL1ess2 votes

Dude...I expected to be a skillshot and I always use it before ppl get into the cone but have the Cass Eyes go off right as they enter the cone, just so nothing happens to them. T_T

RIP Tahm Kench2 votes

That's something that I want to test but dont really have the means to test it. If an ability acquires targets at the start does it also acquire targets at the end of the cast time? And from your word, its a no, but something that should be tested none the less.

Sammystorm3 votes

This isn't entirely true.

This has been a problem long before Riot changed the way cones behave. It is just more pronounced now.

ThePlasticSpork5 votes

Meh. If you ask me, especially in the case with Darius, they should just make the pull actually go off faster. It's really misleading for it to have a cast time at all when the game considers you as being "pulled" before the actual pull happens. Because Darius is kind of weak anyway, they should err on his side and just make it so the pull is basically instantaneous, because that's how it works anyway.

Quite frankly, it's dumb as hell to flash away before the pull happens and just get reeled back in. It's incredibly misleading, it's counterintuitive, it looks silly, and it IS silly. I would much rather get pulled in and then waste my flash as I'm getting dunked anyway, because that's a misplay on my part, then try to take advantage of a cast time that looks like it's there for counterplay purposes only to find myself getting pulled in anyway.

EDIT: I would also totally be down with them making it so Cho's silence works as suggested by the OP. That's very logical.

Lord Dusteon3 votes

Most cone abilities either check if enemies are in range at the start or end of the cast time (IE for Darius, his checks at the start, has cast time, then pulls anyone that was in range at the beginning. Hence you can flash/dash out and still get pulled back). Personally I kinda prefer this since all the champions with these abilities I can think of are immobile.

Solaxo1 votes

Same thing happens with Cho's circle

RIP Tahm Kench3 votes

Well I find Cho's Q to be pretty reliable, with the only exception being people standing on the indicator's edge. That's probably just a problem of flashing at the same time as being knocked up, it happens with pretty much every cc if you try hard enough (worst offenders are enemies who flash behind trist just as she shoots her ult, it knocks them in a random direction in my experience).

Lao Fu the Tiger1 votes

I also find these incredibly frustrating. Darius is the most noticeable, but occasionally even with Pantheon I've picked up kills with E after they flashed completely out of the channel.

Madman3571 votes

Honestly stuff like this happens with a lot of champion abilities. I think Rito just needs to take some time and polish up hit boxes and hit detection.

Volt Cruelerz1 votes

Definitely something that needs to happen.

KING OF MASKS1 votes

I've seen similar behavior with Garen and Darius ults; i.e. if you start casting them and the opponent flashes or blinks away, it'll still hit. Loss of vision is the only thing that will break the cast.

Frankly, I don't think anything needs to be changed. People just need to learn how these skills work.

PickleBabah1 votes

I just think that it needs to be clarified so that I doesn't take you a few deaths to figure out something that obviously doesn't look natural in the state of the game.

OblongOtter1 votes

Well targeted abilities aren't affected by enemies flashing away.

ElJanitorFrank1 votes

I sort of like it, honestly. I think it should be changed for hard CC abilities, but I play a fair bit of Cho, and that silence doesn't have the biggest range and has a very long cast time. Landing it is a nightmare (cho'gath) without this 'bug'.

X Frady1 votes

It happens a lot when I use Annie. Since the attack animation is so slow, the spell activates before the animation reaches the character. I believe "fixing" it would heavily affect these characters, since some cone attacks may never reach their targets, unless Rito makes them as fast as a skillshot.

Sammystorm1 votes

It doesn't just affect cones. It affects basically every ability in the game. Riot did "fix" skarner ult from doing this but left basically every other ability in the game alone. A few examples of what you are talking about.

Auto attacks Singed fling Darius pull Annie w Cho w Voli flip

And a bonus video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMxRm2DT9AU

junglerboy161 votes

Yeah, that actually isn't an oddity, it helps with reliability. In fact, a stealth nerf that they snuck in with the Kassadin riftcrawl nerf is that his E doesn't do that anymore, which actually made it MUCH harder to land, as well as making it seemingly very unresponsive.

Kingsgrave1 votes

I abuse this with Pantheon's E quite a bit

It does ludicrous amounts of damage in mid game once you max it and even if they flash they usually take at least 2/3 of the damage

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