'MMR' System is Stupid, Debate My Facts

Ambitious Minnow··2 votes·706 views

Stay on point.

The MMR system and matchmaking are like weights around your neck, and I firmly believe are the source of growing frustrations with this game. It is factually rigged, and it is not healthy to improve in skill and have some hidden rating system hold you back. The MMR system 'decides' where you belong, then gives you more or less points on win/loss to try and push you towards that level. I can't imagine why anyone thinks this system works?

Obvious Example: With all this talk of e-sport and pro-play blah blah, does Riot, or any of you defending MMR system, value practice? If I spend a 100 matches in draft polishing my pathing, game, map awareness, etc, then lets say I put in 5 - 10 full hours in training mode(do you value your own training tool Riot? Do YOU believe in it?), I should, theoretically, have improved. So let's say I watched a bunch of pro videos, took all their advice, did all this practice, I am now a better player...

The MMR system will not take this into account, and will try to hold you to 'current' skill level. 'But Minnow, if you have truly gained skill, you will win much more games now and rise!' Not so much. If you are DRAMATICALLY better then everyone else in games, you will rise like a pro, but they are OUTLIERS, not typical cases. I'm talking about modest skill gains here, exactly the kind average players should be working for, and should be encouraged to chase after. If you make a modest improvement, you are now ice skating uphill against hidden MMR. Especially if this thing about winning series of matches and then being paired with weaker players in attempt to get 50/50 win rate is true(I don't know if it is but if really feels like it), this is a frustrating process.

Further, what exactly is the point of having a rank system with iron, bronze, silver, etc, if it's not even accurate? LoL client telling me I'm 'Silver IV,' but supposedly my MMR is Bronze 1 on website. What exactly is point of both? So if I'm in Silver IV, I'm not necessarily even matched against and with similar rank? Is there a wider window? It surely feels like there is a huge skill disparity in Silver, and I'm sure this is why, hidden system dragging people all over the place.

So now, lets say I've done all the out of game practice, improved a bit, start wining. Let's say I'm getting 16LP on win, and losing 17LP on loss, just one point. It's just one point, but because the brackets start and end at 0/100 points, you will almost always have to win an extra game to account for a loss, because of that one point down you are getting to 100. It would only be closer to a statistical debuff if it carried throughout the ranks. It doesn't.

Finally, if the MMR system was even near accurate, why would people end up with vastly different MMRs in ranked and in draft? I have 869 MMR ranked solo, but 1,233 MMR normal draft? I haven't played but two draft games in a while, so apparently playing ranked has made me drop in skill 33%??? I have no doubt playing ranked consistently has improved my game, weird how system says opposite.

The MMR system is redundant, shrouded in mystery, and plain frustrating for much of the player base. It would be nice to gasp just be matched with other people in your rank, so you can all fight each other for the next rank essentially. This is so simple I don't know why I would have to justify it. 15LP on all wins and losses either way. Makes sure you can't get into ranked without finishing at least a hundred draft games first just to lengthen time it takes for smurf account to get in(they still will, but it will be more tedious process). (Edit: I also think each account should just automatically start in bronze.)

It would be nice if player skill determined rising in ranks instead of 'determination of player skill.' They aren't the same thing.

Edit: I guess especially the point I'm trying to make with this is: Flat LP Gain/Loss = Natural Selection Managed LP Gain/Loss = Managed Selection is this arguable?

7 Comments

Communist Toast2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ambitious Minnow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fAE4THET,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-20T19:15:53.206+0000)

Obvious Example: With all this talk of e-sport and pro-play blah blah, does Riot, or any of you defending MMR system, value practice? If I spend a 100 matches in draft polishing my pathing, game, map awareness, etc, then lets say I put in 5 - 10 full hours in training mode(do you value your own training tool Riot? Do YOU believe in it?), I should, theoretically, have improved. So let's say I watched a bunch of pro videos, took all their advice, did all this practice, I am now a better player...

The MMR system will not take this into account, and will try to hold you to 'current' skill level.

but it will take it into account, when you start winning games if you have improved like you claimed you in theory would have

you have different MMRs in ranked/drafted because lots of people don't take draft and ranked on the same level of seriousness

Ambitious Minnow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Synthetic Toast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fAE4THET,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-20T19:22:13.379+0000)

but it will take it into account, when you start winning games if you have improved like you claimed you in theory would have

you have different MMRs in ranked/drafted because lots of people don't take draft and ranked on the same level of seriousness

So you are explaining why this system is better than flat gain/loss and matching people against their same actual rank how?

Saezio1 votes

I want ranks removed and have visible MMR as the Rank like it was back in the olden days. Elo>divisions any day of the week and thrice on weekends

Ambitious Minnow1 votes

{quoted}

I want ranks removed and have visible MMR as the Rank like it was back in the olden days. Elo>divisions any day of the week and thrice on weekends

You mind if I ask why you prefer Elo > Divisions? If you know you will have smurf accounts on occasion one way or the other, it seems like rising through divisions would place people in a division against exactly the same number of smurfs statistically. My understanding, after reading an especially long debate from another game thread, is ELO system (from chess) is really only designed to track individual performance(1 player controlling an outcome).

Edit: IF I could not banish MMR system, I would also be ok with it being the sole system and the one displayed. One system would be better then two no matter what. Why have a rank and a redundant hidden rank?

Saezio1 votes

Well, MMR already determines who we are matched against. So, why should the same MMR not represent our Ladder rank? Riot's reasoning about it is that half the players will see their MMR drop over the course of a season because that is how it works. I don't think eye candy is a solid reason that our true Ladder ranking should be hidden. Simple as Also, everyone will have proof that they are matched against people of equal skill level and none will be able to claim "OMG I play VS plats in gold 4, how am I supposed to climb?"

Zaodon1 votes

I don't think any ranking system should be subjective. i.e. people voting, you deciding your own skill level, etc. It should come from "metrics". i.e numerical stats.

So, what numerical stats exist that could possibly be used in a formula?

  1. Wins / Losses
  2. K/D/A
  3. Elapsed match time
  4. Damage dealt to enemy champs / healed or shielded on friendly champs (combined number)
  5. Damage taken
  6. of abilities used in match

  7. of basic attacks landed on enemy champs in match

  8. Creep Score
  9. Ratio of time in combat vs out of combat
  10. Amount of gold earned

That's all I can think of at the moment, but there may be more.

Do you suggest that they should use each of these 10 criteria in a very complex formula to determine rank gain and loss? And this formula should also be weighted by champion type (i.e. adc vs support vs jungle vs mid vs top) so that you aren't penalized in the formula solely for your role pick.

Does that sound like something people would be able to even understand much less work to improve?

Ambitious Minnow1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think any ranking system should be subjective. i.e. people voting, you deciding your own skill level, etc. It should come from "metrics". i.e numerical stats.

So, what numerical stats exist that could possibly be used in a formula?

  1. Wins / Losses
  2. K/D/A
  3. Elapsed match time
  4. Damage dealt to enemy champs / healed or shielded on friendly champs (combined number)
  5. Damage taken
  6. of abilities used in match

  7. of basic attacks landed on enemy champs in match

  8. Creep Score
  9. Ratio of time in combat vs out of combat
  10. Amount of gold earned

That's all I can think of at the moment, but there may be more.

Do you suggest that they should use each of these 10 criteria in a very complex formula to determine rank gain and loss? And this formula should also be weighted by champion type (i.e. adc vs support vs jungle vs mid vs top) so that you aren't penalized in the formula solely for your role pick.

Does that sound like something people would be able to even understand much less work to improve?

I think all the things you list are the metrics that individual players should be using to monitor and improve themselves. I firmly believe win/loss like it is now is the only correct way to distribute LP changes.

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