So assassins are not allowed to 1-shot but marksmen are?

Dokkaebi··106 votes·5,546 views

cough Draven cough

181 Comments

Sun Wu Ryuumoku36 votes

Marksmen don't OS, but burst per sec... without skillshot... just with aa

Fawksea10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7APALMt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-18T22:18:18.064+0000)

Marksmen don't OS, but burst per sec... without skillshot... just with aa

with the safety of being ranged and getting peel

ModAcademy Kayn20 votes

One shots were never the problem. Being unable to react to said oneshot is.

Succubús GF17 votes

You literally cant react to an auto.

Chaotic Reks5 votes

I'm pretty sure that's what he just said...

Succubús GF3 votes

Oh I must have misinterpreted my b

Hyrum Graff7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7APALMt,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2017-06-19T08:40:49.126+0000)

You literally cant react to an auto.

FACE THE WIND

Ok.

Imagine if I had a real weapon.

Slythion16 votes

except no average Draven is able to 1-shot anyone at any point in the game. If he's fed, then ya...but there are tons of assassins that still delete people when they are fed

edit: kinda confused why this was downvoted so heavily, yet everything I've said that proved my statement to be correct was upvoted pretty nicely...I guess I triggered a lot of people with strong opinions that don't feel like discussing how they could be wrong?

Dokkaebi10 votes

Not true. He has the same issue as Yasuo. Once he gets a couple of items (even when behind) he starts to just delete everyone.

I was recently against a Draven who I won lane against. He was 0/2. After getting his core items he went 19/2.

Slythion29 votes

Don't get me wrong, Draven is ridiculously strong and whoever even thought of buffing Death's Dance by literally doubling it's unique passive needs to be fired from Riot, but Draven simply can only maybe 3-shot squishies when ahead, he definitely can't just "auto and done" anyone without being incredibly ahead

Penns7 votes

And assassins did? Draven gets attack speed so if he kills someone with 2-3 crits he "oneshot" them faster than most assassins even pre rework.

crippler382 votes

Shaco pre rework, on one auto did.

120% of his total AD base.

270% crit damage with 100% crit chance.

and static shiv damage on top of that.

Meaning that Shaco could, with say 300 AD (not hard to get, it's an even number) do on one auto attack

972 physical damage, plus the static shiv damage, plus the tiamat proc for another 300, plus the E damage which would have its base damage plus 100% of his bonus AD PLUS 20% more damage if he were behind someone. Plus thunderlords.

All this from an auto attack, taimat active, and 2 shiv poison toss.

Callin that slow? I could oneshot people before they could blink.

Penns4 votes

Draven with one IE crit right now does 250% of his total AD + 105% of his bonus AD + 50 base damage + Static, which is easily more than 1k damage at 300 AD. And he doesnt have to be in melee range.

Also I said "faster than **most **assassins", of course pre rework Rengar popped people.

crippler382 votes

I also think I fucked up my math actually, since shaco passive used to be 20% bonus damage, so it would be 20% more of the bonus crit.

I'm dumb.

Shaco did 270% crit damage which when added by the 20% damage would be 324% ad on one hit, plus 100% from the tiamat, plus 120% (plus the base damage of E) plus thunderlords plus the 270% damage crit on static shiv, plus duskblade.

Note, old duskblade was an execute.

not including clone damage and item effects, or the enemy walking into a box.

Note, that was just for me to correct my math since I'm a potato, also did they buff spinning axe or something? I could have sworn it was 85% before, not over 100.

Honestly I still think that if DD didn't make the man immortal you could still withstand those spinning axes just because he doesn't get them every auto with his attack speed and they make him real easy to kill.

Reason I bring up pre rework shaco is that the full AD build plus shiv and IE essentially made him rengar without the warning.

Seriously though, I could have sworn spinning axe use to be like 85%

Penns3 votes

It was 85% total AD at max rank but in 7.1 it was changed to 50 base damage + 105% bonus AD.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Shaco pre rework, on one auto did.

120% of his total AD base.

270% crit damage with 100% crit chance.

and static shiv damage on top of that.

Meaning that Shaco could, with say 300 AD (not hard to get, it's an even number) do on one auto attack

972 physical damage, plus the static shiv damage, plus the tiamat proc for another 300, plus the E damage which would have its base damage plus 100% of his bonus AD PLUS 20% more damage if he were behind someone. Plus thunderlords.

All this from an auto attack, taimat active, and 2 shiv poison toss.

Callin that slow? I could oneshot people before they could blink.

There is a no-boots nocturne build that I call ONE SHOT NOC. In practice mode, I tested the combo on a dummy. It did just over 1800 damage in half a second.

R-Q-AA--hydra-AA-gunblade-ignite

Build is triforce, ravenous hydra, gunblade, and all 3 lethality items. You go thunderlords and every damage mastery, and lethality reds and quints. Full combo includes prepping edge of night's spell shield, so even though you're squishy AF it's hard to kill you through double SS.

Play mid or top. Rush triforce and ionian boots for mana and cdr. Then get the lethality items in whatever order you want. I usually buy a poacher's dirk and sit on it. It takes forever to get a chance to poach camps, but it also takes forever to build 3 full items so that's fine.

Finish off your build with hydra and gunblade, selling your boots for whichever you get last (by the time you finish all 3 lethality items you have a lot of out of combat MS and you have triforce/ghostblade/Q for in combat MS (not that you really need it, you're ONE SHOT NOC).

crippler381 votes

ur dirty.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

ur dirty.

I'll take that as a complement :)

Asayake 5150glow7 votes

{quoted}

Don't get me wrong, Draven is ridiculously strong and whoever even thought of buffing Death's Dance by literally doubling it's unique passive needs to be fired from Riot, but Draven simply can only maybe 3-shot squishies when slightly ahead, he definitely can't just "auto and done" anyone without being incredibly ahead

Well, neither could assassins... ever. Besides probably a fed Rengar but that doesn't count.

That's clearly not the definition of oneshot that the OP is using, so don't pretend he is. Draven can easily kill a squishy with two Q's, an E, and ult (if both hit). With a slight lead and decent CS, each auto does well over 200 damage.

That being said, Talon's oneshot potential is insane. I recently killed a Graves from full health with E+R (E'd for gapclosing)+crit Q+auto+W. The W on the way back killed him, but he only had 100 health and probably woulda died from the rest of the bleed.

Slythion9 votes

Uh, the entire point of the assassin rework was to remove a lot of champion's abilities to 1-shot so consistently. Don't tell me you've forgotten what old Leblanc and Katarina were like :0 Rengar could consistently 1-shot as well, he didn't need to be overly-fed. Talon, Fizz, and Shaco are all worthy nominees for "assassins who could reliably one-shot before the assassin rework"

Also, Draven @ Level 6 attacking a lv.6 Fizz (about 1k hp) with 33% damage resistance would need to do:

1000

  • 175(.66) (ult)
  • 70(.66) (e)

838.3 / 3

= 280(ish)

280 per auto in order to kill someone in 3 hits at level 6 + Ult + E. That's possible, but probably not gonna happen at level 6.

Doing just a quick search (I was curious how much a Draven does around this level) I looked up "Draven Montage" and this level 7 Draven only did 224dmg to this TF at level 7. He's only hitting for about 160's to the Cait @ 2:13 as well

The math simply isn't there for a Draven to kill someone in that time frame, unless he somehow crits those 3 hits (which he'd be RNJeesus) which I don't find likely because he usually starts DD now

Edit: @ 2:29 we find a great example of a Draven who can 3-shot...only problem is that he has a 4 level lead on Karma and a 2 Item lead (and 2 level lead) on the Caitlyn.

That's when a Draven can "delete" people

also: forgot to source the video lolz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynb2h302Vns

BakedLotion2 votes

{quoted}

Don't get me wrong, Draven is ridiculously strong and whoever even thought of buffing Death's Dance by literally doubling it's unique passive needs to be fired from Riot, but Draven simply can only maybe 3-shot squishies when ahead, he definitely can't just "auto and done" anyone without being incredibly ahead

Two crits with an ie and they're dead. And one shot doesn't mean one hit. It just means you die in under a second

LankPants13 votes

Graves

Tankier than assassins, more burst than assassins, ranged, takes zero damage in jungle. If ever there were a champ who deserves the S2 Eve treatment.

Tails901610 votes

Nah mate, he only takes out around 1/3 your health-bar per auto Wait, I was playing Nautilus with 3 armor items

ShaolinToilet4 votes

You weren't playing you were feeding

2Charmnot2Charm9 votes

was expecting Twitch

waiting for WoW7 votes

Yeah dude

Cause getting head shot for 2k damage by Caitlyn is so fun and has so much counterplay. Especially when she makes a wall of traps around a turret so you can't siege.

Bottom Laner6 votes

So an outlier can be a whole class but the rest of the ADCs put together can't?

TyrekGoldenspear4 votes

You know how these boards are. Don't worry too much about it.

Cowseed5 votes

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qam4iiya1q0/maxresdefault.jpg

Draven doesn't use guns. It would be more correct to say he one-axes.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

When did shot refer to a bullet? It could mean arrow.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Still inaccurate for Draven. If anything, it should be "onethrow".

Sinlaire3 votes

is that why i always lose with a draven on my team?

because he's too busy throwing?

s LessThanThree5 votes

I'm pretty sure any assassin thats 19/2 will 1-shot you aswell

Emerald Fang4 votes

Have you ever been attacked by a fed Talon?

Oblivious Denial22 votes

The thing is, assassins need to be ahead to do that type of dmg, whereas ADCs just scale into just by farming.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Do you know how miserable that time needed to scale is? ;_;

Unless snowballing it's the very picture of misery.

And all of us does not play Draven or twitch.

The 2nd Horseman2 votes

And do you know the feeling of a game lasting too long and trying to kill an adc with two shield bots?

JESUSSAYSNO4 votes

Being ahead can mean any number of things. You don't need to be 5/0/3 to one shot a carry, you just need gold. And you can get gold from farming.

Your statement can literally be interprited as 'The thing is, assassions need to farm well to do that type of damage, whereas ADCs just scale into just by farming'. The methods of 'getting ahead' are the exact same for both roles; aquire gold. The method is irelevant.

The 2nd Horseman3 votes

Yeah but if all an assassin did was farm they'd be outdone by most if not all mages and adcs

JESUSSAYSNO4 votes

not really. their damage paterns and strengths are entirely different. Burst mages rarely have the tools to engage into an enemy backline, and while their dps is similar, again, they don't have access to the backline. To assume that an assassin is worthless without kills because 'mages do it better' is absolutely ignorant of the roles of both assassins and mages. An asssassin's job is to flank and apply backline pressure, while a mage and adc's job is to apply damage to targets that you can attack without overextending.

You can generate massive leads off of CS in almost all brackets except korean chalanger, to the point where you can be ahead multiple kills worth of gold. And if you're that far ahead on CS, you generate the ability to item spike and kill people.

You don't need to be snowballing on kills to be snowballing. I genuinely cannot count the number of game that I've won by zoning my opponent off lane by freezing lane and denying them the ability to farm into relevancy, while I continue to CS. Usually in these lanes, I end up some 60 CS, and when 17 CS is equal to a kill, that's effectively being up just less than 4 kills on the enemy laner, without even killing them once. And in these scenarios, the opponent ends up being so weak that the game becomes a 5v4.

It doesnt matter what kind of champion you're playing, assassin, bruiser, tank, mage, etc, if you have an advantage, you can just deny your opponent to generate a fuckhuge lead.

Karn Bishop3 votes

Evelynn has a quote that summarizes assassin vs adc gank nicely. "Its time to feed" its also one of the few champion lines you cannot quote in chat or you'll get a ban.

Ollerus3 votes

See, I was actually expecting to see Caitlyn's picture, because everyone knows Caitlyn is 100x worse for that then Draven.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Draven's Q lets him out damage turrets constantly. Cait can only do that on a headshot. So every 4-7 attacks, as long as you actually stay off of her traps.

JESUSSAYSNO3 votes

He doesnt one shot unless he's horrendiously fed, and even then, he's imobile as fuck outside of his MS steroid. The times that he one shots you are your missplays.

Executioner3 votes

Thank god someone said it. People are making these marksman in general seem like these fucking lifesteal monsters, when you have a support healing/shielding you.

piggy853 votes

katarina can do it aoe

FiddlesOnTheRoof2 votes

Draven is definitely too strong, but I'm getting consistently 1 shot by Zeds without him even ulting

Jumper Cables5 votes

While I recognize Zed's one shot potential and am in no way disputing your statement, I don't think Zed is a great example of a truly unhealthy one shotter. He isn't in a great place right now, and the fact that lethality sucks makes it even worse. In addition, his kit relies on good skill and decision making by the player while offering good counterplay options for his opponents. If the combo sequence is off or he misses a Q, the whole thing is screwed and Zed could die. Now is probably a good time to bring up the fact that I'm completely biased because I'm a Zed main, but I think he is an example of a fair assassin who embodies the role of the class and is healthy for the game.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

And they didn't believe us when we said riot favors marksmen above all else. Caitlyn and jihn can do that too btw.

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